07-28-17 11:27 AM
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  1. slagman5's Avatar
    Majority? LOL.

    Best in the market for YOU
    Still kind of curious why you have an obsession with this sub-forum when you're not at all interested in the actual phone. I personally can think of some better hobbies. :-P Although we are free to live as we please, so not criticizing your choice of what to spend your free time on.

    And I don't really get what's funny, are you claiming that you have statistical data that the majority of KEYone owners have issues? I would be interested in seeing that data.
    07-24-17 07:08 PM
  2. slagman5's Avatar
    It's official, then. All posters on this thread concur that the Keyone is "flawless", so it must be. Damn those "disgraceful" threads that say otherwise.
    Well, while I disagree with his sentiment, I personally don't think there is a such thing as a "best phone" as there is only a best phone for a particular individual, nor do I believe that there are no real problems with this phone. But the counter to your sarcasm here is that many people feel that threads about their KEYone's having issues is proof that they are all broken and damn those "fanboy" threads that say otherwise... It works both ways unfortunately.
    07-24-17 07:11 PM
  3. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    Not really. Even if robots did everything, everything will still be slightly different. There's an allowable margin of difference in manufacturing, called tolerance. If everything was made to spec, most likely the unit would perform like it is intended to. But if the tolerances where two pieces meet happen to be off in opposite directions, making the actual combined tolerance higher than the design was intended for, then that's where these failures likely would occur. It's something called tolerance stacking and is more common than you'd think. Sometimes the problems are not noticeable, but in the case of the KEYone, obviously we'll notice a screen coming off, lol.

    You think!......lol
    07-24-17 07:13 PM
  4. mtdyson's Avatar
    Not really. Even if robots did everything, everything will still be slightly different. There's an allowable margin of difference in manufacturing, called tolerance. If everything was made to spec, most likely the unit would perform like it is intended to. But if the tolerances where two pieces meet happen to be off in opposite directions, making the actual combined tolerance higher than the design was intended for, then that's where these failures likely would occur. It's something called tolerance stacking and is more common than you'd think. Sometimes the problems are not noticeable, but in the case of the KEYone, obviously we'll notice a screen coming off, lol.
    Well your tolerance stacking sounds correct but it's not. Each parts allowable tolerance is figured in with the part its connected to that way when both parts are on the outside edge of tolerance and fitted together they will still make a usable piece. In your version each piece is considered individually for tolerance so even though each piece is within spec but on the outside edge of spec you will may get the parts to go together but eventually you will reach a point in the build where nothing lines up or goes together. So your definition is slightly off.
    07-24-17 07:41 PM
  5. slagman5's Avatar
    Well your tolerance stacking sounds correct but it's not. Each parts allowable tolerance is figured in with the part its connected to that way when both parts are on the outside edge of tolerance and fitted together they will still make a usable piece. In your version each piece is considered individually for tolerance so even though each piece is within spec but on the outside edge of spec you will may get the parts to go together but eventually you will reach a point in the build where nothing lines up or goes together. So your definition is slightly off.
    You're stating how it SHOULD be. The fact that they have had to come out and acknowledge it as an issue shows that it isn't that way. My point isn't that this is "normal." There definitely is a problem in their manufacturing, and that is, if what I'm thinking is somewhat accurate, they miscalculated where those tolerances needed to be.

    The point being that it's likely that this issue affects a certain number of units, not all of them as some of them should be within the correct tolerances...
    07-24-17 08:22 PM
  6. donnation's Avatar
    Yep, just like every Note 7 would eventually explode or every Pinto would eventually catch fire... Some of those Pinto's are still around, but any day now.
    Interesting that you are referencing two items that were recalled.
    07-24-17 08:38 PM
  7. mtdyson's Avatar
    You're stating how it SHOULD be. The fact that they have had to come out and acknowledge it as an issue shows that it isn't that way. My point isn't that this is "normal." There definitely is a problem in their manufacturing, and that is, if what I'm thinking is somewhat accurate, they miscalculated where those tolerances needed to be.

    The point being that it's likely that this issue affects a certain number of units, not all of them as some of them should be within the correct tolerances...
    I agree, but 2 companies with 25 years of phone building experience combined should have had the proper quality checks established ( obviously they didn't) so that being said it reached the consumer, after BB/TCL realized how many phones were affected sure they made changes to production but left the consumers wondering if their phone will do the same thing at some point. BB/TCL has a start point and break point of the affected units and could have reached out to the consumers and didn't but chose to keep the info to themselves and play it by ear with hopes that what's left of the affected units that haven't broken won't give out until the warranty is up. Kind of says a lot about the companies and where they're at now.
    07-24-17 09:20 PM
  8. evodevo69's Avatar
    Yep, just like every Note 7 would eventually explode or every Pinto would eventually catch fire... Some of those Pinto's are still around, but any day now.
    Pretty much yes - every note 7 would have eventually experienced battery failure (ok maybe that's an exaggeration). It was in their press statement - they had a major design flaw.

    At first they blamed it on the company supplying the battery, thought they could just repair the devices, but then the repaired ones had failures too. The reports were steadily increasing over a months time.

    In the end they discovered it was the battery simply being too large - so yea man, eventually, a lot of them would have exploded. Maybe not every single one but a lot lol.

    They've since released the note 7 again with a smaller capacity battery called the Fan Edition so as to salvage what they can I guess.

    The S8 has already outsold the S7 so they handled the bad PR pretty well.

    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    07-24-17 10:48 PM
  9. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Still kind of curious why you have an obsession with this sub-forum when you're not at all interested in the actual phone. I personally can think of some better hobbies. :-P Although we are free to live as we please, so not criticizing your choice of what to spend your free time on.

    And I don't really get what's funny, are you claiming that you have statistical data that the majority of KEYone owners have issues? I would be interested in seeing that data.
    I am waiting for K1 to launch down here, I have an upgrade available, and I am looking to try something different, mainly eyeing the Sony XZ Premium, but the K1 or iPhone 8 could be interesting for me, for the next 12months before I jump to the Note 9. Curiosity got me hard here.

    Nope, I don't have data, thats why I don't claim either way, but find it hilarious when someone tries to brush off major issues like this.
    07-25-17 01:08 AM
  10. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Interesting that you are referencing two items that were recalled.
    LOL! Yeah, people have a habit of conveniently forgetting that part.
    07-25-17 01:12 AM
  11. Barbareren's Avatar
    Still going strong here (knock on wood). I won't say it's flawless or perfect because nothing is, but I haven't had any serious problems whatsoever, so I'm good, for now
    07-25-17 01:45 AM
  12. fairmarketvalue's Avatar
    Blimey they have turned their attention from the keyone to ME.
    LOL. It's always about you, baby. You, and Keyone , of course.
    07-25-17 06:43 AM
  13. slagman5's Avatar
    Interesting that you are referencing two items that were recalled.
    Yep, I intentionally referenced things that were much more serious... Thought that was clear... Well, basically, even in those extreme cases where it was much more serious, it still didn't involve 100% of the units. Sorry, I thought my sarcasm was clear, but I guess not, I'll be sure to spell it out next time too. Hard to judge over the internet you know, my mistake. :-)
    07-25-17 09:36 AM
  14. slagman5's Avatar
    I agree, but 2 companies with 25 years of phone building experience combined should have had the proper quality checks established ( obviously they didn't) so that being said it reached the consumer, after BB/TCL realized how many phones were affected sure they made changes to production but left the consumers wondering if their phone will do the same thing at some point. BB/TCL has a start point and break point of the affected units and could have reached out to the consumers and didn't but chose to keep the info to themselves and play it by ear with hopes that what's left of the affected units that haven't broken won't give out until the warranty is up. Kind of says a lot about the companies and where they're at now.
    I've seen 100 year-old firearms companies release products that end up having issues with tolerance stacking. I've seen 120 year-old car companies release products with life-threatening defects. Even a company like Ferrari, selling hand-built cars with almost 80 years of car building and racing heritage, can put out a car that has unforeseen issues. The only way to really prevent this at near 100% is if everytime they build a product they take 1000 of them off the line and test them for several months... But I'm sure you already see the logistical problem with that...

    And I don't get where you got that they kept to themselves. They made a public statement about the problem and that they will fix the problem pretty much a week after the first reported incident...

    Although I've heard that the process to get it repaired is still a pain in the butt. They really should have streamlined it and made it easier for the consumers, like do cross-shipping so they don't have to go a period of time without a phone to use...
    07-25-17 09:40 AM
  15. slagman5's Avatar
    Pretty much yes - every note 7 would have eventually experienced battery failure (ok maybe that's an exaggeration). It was in their press statement - they had a major design flaw.

    At first they blamed it on the company supplying the battery, thought they could just repair the devices, but then the repaired ones had failures too. The reports were steadily increasing over a months time.

    In the end they discovered it was the battery simply being too large - so yea man, eventually, a lot of them would have exploded. Maybe not every single one but a lot lol.

    They've since released the note 7 again with a smaller capacity battery called the Fan Edition so as to salvage what they can I guess.

    The S8 has already outsold the S7 so they handled the bad PR pretty well.

    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    But that's the point, I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have been every single one... People here are claiming that they know "for sure" that every single KEYone will have the same failure... I know people who still own a Pinto and a Corvair that have not caught on fire or flipped over yet... lol That's not to say the problem isn't real, but sometimes even design flaws do not affect 100% of the units due to slight differences in every unit...
    07-25-17 09:45 AM
  16. bakron1's Avatar
    I bought a mint used one from a fellow member and should have mine later this week. Excited about using it and posting my review of the device.
    07-25-17 09:47 AM
  17. slagman5's Avatar
    I am waiting for K1 to launch down here, I have an upgrade available, and I am looking to try something different, mainly eyeing the Sony XZ Premium, but the K1 or iPhone 8 could be interesting for me, for the next 12months before I jump to the Note 9. Curiosity got me hard here.

    Nope, I don't have data, thats why I don't claim either way, but find it hilarious when someone tries to brush off major issues like this.
    That is hilarious, but it's just as hilarious to go from one extreme to the other extreme. Yes we have those who pretend there isn't an issue with the phone (I'm sorry if you somehow feel that I am one of those people, even though in literally every one of my posts I am specifically referring to the problems of the phone...), but then we have those who come here claiming the exact opposite, that all of the phones are bad and everything about it is bad... I don't know, do you really think one is dumber or more hilarious than the other? Right in the middle is really where we all should be, but oh well...

    And I apologize, you've made it pretty clear in plenty of your posts how superior all-touch phones are in every aspect compared to the form-factor of the KEYone, so that gave me the impression that you're not interested in it, even without the problems. I didn't realize that you were interested in buying and using an inferior form factor. My mistake man.
    07-25-17 09:48 AM
  18. slagman5's Avatar
    LOL! Yeah, people have a habit of conveniently forgetting that part.
    Actually no, I intentionally picked very serious cases, as explained in my response to him. I thought that point was clear and easy to understand, but I guess not. I sometimes forget that sarcasm is sometimes lost over the text-only nature of internet forums...
    07-25-17 09:49 AM
  19. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    That is hilarious, but it's just as hilarious to go from one extreme to the other extreme. Yes we have those who pretend there isn't an issue with the phone (I'm sorry if you somehow feel that I am one of those people, even though in literally every one of my posts I am specifically referring to the problems of the phone...), but then we have those who come here claiming the exact opposite, that all of the phones are bad and everything about it is bad... I don't know, do you really think one is dumber or more hilarious than the other? Right in the middle is really where we all should be, but oh well...

    And I apologize, you've made it pretty clear in plenty of your posts how superior all-touch phones are in every aspect compared to the form-factor of the KEYone, so that gave me the impression that you're not interested in it, even without the problems. I didn't realize that you were interested in buying and using an inferior form factor. My mistake man.
    If I got the K1 it would work as a secondary device to my S7 Edge, if I don't like it I'll just sell it off, maybe make some profit off it, if possible.

    We'll see.
    07-25-17 09:54 AM
  20. slagman5's Avatar
    If I got the K1 it would work as a secondary device to my S7 Edge, if I don't like it I'll just sell it off, maybe make some profit off it, if possible.

    We'll see.
    If TCL can get their **** together and start getting stock out there (unless the theories about the actual retailers not ordering any are true), then your chances of making anything off of it would be slim. But you may be able to as long as things keep going the way they have been, lol.
    07-25-17 09:58 AM
  21. mtdyson's Avatar
    I've seen 100 year-old firearms companies release products that end up having issues with tolerance stacking. I've seen 120 year-old car companies release products with life-threatening defects. Even a company like Ferrari, selling hand-built cars with almost 80 years of car building and racing heritage, can put out a car that has unforeseen issues. The only way to really prevent this at near 100% is if everytime they build a product they take 1000 of them off the line and test them for several months... But I'm sure you already see the logistical problem with that...

    And I don't get where you got that they kept to themselves. They made a public statement about the problem and that they will fix the problem pretty much a week after the first reported incident...

    Although I've heard that the process to get it repaired is still a pain in the butt. They really should have streamlined it and made it easier for the consumers, like do cross-shipping so they don't have to go a period of time without a phone to use...
    The tolerance stack up should be done during engineering and trials, sure issue are found during production with the process itself usually or a defect from the vendor. To go through fit trials and first run production and miss the fact that tolerance were off so much the screen falls out (your theory) is completely unacceptable. If it was a 50 go phone from Walmart then at least you could say "you get what you pay for". As far as your examples if you're dealing with new designs or technologies then yes, the designs or technologies may pass through trials with flying colors but find issues with real world. But that's not the case with the Keyone. No new technologies no radical design changes never seen before so it really it just falls down to build quality. I think it's still some kind of adhesion issue but just like which units are affected and what's the issue causing these to fail. We will never know.
    07-25-17 12:05 PM
  22. slagman5's Avatar
    The tolerance stack up should be done during engineering and trials, sure issue are found during production with the process itself usually or a defect from the vendor. To go through fit trials and first run production and miss the fact that tolerance were off so much the screen falls out (your theory) is completely unacceptable. If it was a 50 go phone from Walmart then at least you could say "you get what you pay for". As far as your examples if you're dealing with new designs or technologies then yes, the designs or technologies may pass through trials with flying colors but find issues with real world. But that's not the case with the Keyone. No new technologies no radical design changes never seen before so it really it just falls down to build quality. I think it's still some kind of adhesion issue but just like which units are affected and what's the issue causing these to fail. We will never know.
    Um, I'm pretty sure these fit trials happened, and those they tried out passed the test... And I never said that the tolerances were "off so much" because not all of the screens fall out. That's the whole point of everything that has been said...

    And along with the examples I've given, all of those companies did QC testing on their products before releasing them and some still ended up with serious problems...
    07-25-17 12:14 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The tolerance stack up should be done during engineering and trials, sure issue are found during production with the process itself usually or a defect from the vendor. To go through fit trials and first run production and miss the fact that tolerance were off so much the screen falls out (your theory) is completely unacceptable. If it was a 50 go phone from Walmart then at least you could say "you get what you pay for". As far as your examples if you're dealing with new designs or technologies then yes, the designs or technologies may pass through trials with flying colors but find issues with real world. But that's not the case with the Keyone. No new technologies no radical design changes never seen before so it really it just falls down to build quality. I think it's still some kind of adhesion issue but just like which units are affected and what's the issue causing these to fail. We will never know.
    The company, TCL/BBMo, signed the licensing agreement less than 6 months before release. How much REAL testing was there done? Many of the mainland OEM manufacturers seem to run beta devices in larger quantities and beta test with early adopters. It seems like a cheaper way to get better feedback. They replace any problem devices and the devices are being used in larger quantities in realistic situations not hypothetical. It's the same business model used with those go phones you refer too, made by, you guessed it, TCL/Alcatel...plus the other usual mainland suspects.
    07-25-17 12:24 PM
  24. mtdyson's Avatar
    So with that ruled out we're back to my original assumption of poor quality checks while production is running. The defect ; which is disappointing yes but tolerable is not the real issue the customer service after the fact mainly for the 3rd party pre-orders and post orders that do not have a way to exchange a phone that is convenient for them. Also basically everyone that bought a phone up to the point they changed their production will know have in the back of there head that there screen could very well come off. Can TCL ease that by releasing a list of affected phones and offering an exchange? Sure can but they may come off cheaper in the short term to see how many actually make it past warranty. There's a good chance it was a limited number affected so why not take the small hit to gain the respect of your customers. The customer service after is truly the issue, the screen is poor quality to begin with and hopefully lesson learned by CLT.
    07-25-17 01:09 PM
  25. mtdyson's Avatar
    The company, TCL/BBMo, signed the licensing agreement less than 6 months before release. How much REAL testing was there done? Many of the mainland OEM manufacturers seem to run beta devices in larger quantities and beta test with early adopters. It seems like a cheaper way to get better feedback. They replace any problem devices and the devices are being used in larger quantities in realistic situations not hypothetical. It's the same business model used with those go phones you refer too, made by, you guessed it, TCL/Alcatel...plus the other usual mainland suspects.
    Fantastic, all the more reason to sit back and let the smoke clear.
    07-25-17 01:34 PM
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