07-20-17 02:16 PM
32 12
tools
  1. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    Few weeks ago I created a thread on this same subject, but then deleted thinking that I have to give it more time, and test it thoroughly. So I did.

    Here (in percentages (subjective evaluation)) are listed the issues I've came across:

    (just to make myself clear, below, when I write "swipe" I mean the physical action of swiping on the keyboard and "screen move" for actual result of that swipe.)

    When portrait mode swiping:
    7% chance - that the screen would move in the reversed direction than the one you swiped
    20% - no screen move at all (after swiping)
    30% - the screen moves just a little (after swiping)
    20% - the screen move is ok, still not as far as you'd like that swipe to get you
    15% - the screen doesn't stop where we rationally predict that it should stop (usually determined by how long was the swipe) OR the screen moves an extra 10-20 pixels after it almost seems to be done (moving), like the screen almost stops moving and then it moves an extra amount of pixels
    8% - good correlation between the length of the swipe and the screen move (really rarely happens)

    When landscape mode swiping:
    80% - good swiping experience
    20% - the swipe isn't accurate/responsive. The screen still moves but not as intended.

    To summarize all this, there isn't a correlation/relationship between the swipe on the keyboard and the actual move of the screen. When swiping on the screen, for example, you know that if you swipe "that hard" the screen would move "that fast" and if swiping a little, it will move the screen just a little. Well, if swiping on the keyboard - you never have that confidence. Sometimes 3-4, or 3-5 swipes on the keyboard can mean one swipe on the screen.

    As a result of this I rarely use the keyboard for swiping. So far the most responsive and functional function of the keyboard remains the one of deleting words if swiping backwards, really useful, top-notch.

    So how do you guys feel about keyboard swiping, what is your experience? Do you also have the feeling that you can do more and quicker if swiping on the screen rather than guessing "how many swipes it would take to actually get you where you want"?

    Thanks
    Last edited by joker333; 07-05-17 at 10:25 AM.
    anon(3641385) and ce71 like this.
    07-04-17 02:27 PM
  2. gquan14's Avatar
    Same. I do not use the keyboard for swiping @ all. I find it delayed on the home screen. The web pages scrolling is "OK" at best. Keep in mind, only the second row of keys trigger the scrolling. So using your thumb to go rows 1 to 3 (downward), your actual key recognition is row 2. Not efficient. Definitely not like the smoothness of the Passport. I use the screen for fluidity.
    Bostil1987 and anon(8679041) like this.
    07-04-17 04:23 PM
  3. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    Same. I do not use the keyboard for swiping @ all. I find it delayed on the home screen. The web pages scrolling is "OK" at best. Keep in mind, only the second row of keys trigger the scrolling. So using your thumb to go rows 1 to 3 (downward), your actual key recognition is row 2. Not efficient. Definitely not like the smoothness of the Passport. I use the screen for fluidity.
    Sad... because that was their selling point... Seems like they really stand behind a few things they advertised (mostly battery life, though they made it possible not by using some super nano-tech-kind-of-thing but by using simple materials which consume less battery, wow....).

    This is not serious, not professional, not the kind of attitude that makes sales or gain TRUST! And on top of that, guess what, I've had an issue, and for over a month I have emailed their customer care, do you think I got any answers?!

    I so much don't like their attitude...
    Last edited by joker333; 07-05-17 at 04:11 AM.
    07-05-17 03:11 AM
  4. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    You don't mention which app you are recording this testing in? I've found different apps work better and worse with keyboard scrolling.

    Regardless, yeah, keyboard touch control is pretty much crap and not very useful. Was the Passport and Priv this bad also?

    Btw I'm coming from a Classic.
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-05-17 09:20 AM
  5. SoxFan's Avatar
    What are the most valuable/useful swipes? I don't use them.
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-05-17 09:34 AM
  6. Vince Liew's Avatar
    I realised that the sensor for swiping is in the metal frets, not the key itself.. so check where your thumb landed on the pkb.. hahaha..
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-05-17 09:38 AM
  7. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    What are the most valuable/useful swipes? I don't use them.
    backwards swiping - deleting a word
    double tap - enter "text editing mode" and move within the text, lines - safely
    flick to type a predicted word - useful only when you don't know how to spell a word or if the word you intend to write is a longer word. Otherwise it's a waste of time

    For now these are the only one really useful that I use.
    Last edited by joker333; 07-05-17 at 09:51 AM.
    07-05-17 09:38 AM
  8. Vince Liew's Avatar
    oh yeah.. it gives you better swiping experience if you swipe along the vertical space between the keys..
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-05-17 09:40 AM
  9. SoxFan's Avatar
    oh yeah.. it gives you better swiping experience if you swipe along the vertical space between the keys..
    That's helpful. I should try to get in the habit of swiping left to delete.
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-05-17 09:41 AM
  10. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    I realised that the sensor for swiping is in the metal frets, not the key itself.. so check where your thumb landed on the pkb.. hahaha..
    Just tested. For me the swipe is triggered by the actual keys.
    07-05-17 09:41 AM
  11. anon(10157476)'s Avatar
    Same trouble. Portrait scrolling is the worst. Landscape scrolling is pretty nice. In some apps portrait scrolling seems to work better than others. I do flick for longer words. but also some problems here. Wellp
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-05-17 09:44 AM
  12. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    I do flick for longer words.
    Right, forgot this one. It really saves time, especially when the word is long and you have no idea how to spell it ha ha
    FF22 likes this.
    07-05-17 09:49 AM
  13. ce71's Avatar
    Few weeks ago I created a thread on this same subject, but then deleted thinking that I have to give it more time, and test it thoroughly. So I did.

    Here (in percentages) are listed the issues I've came across:

    (just to make myself clear, below, when I write "swipe" I mean the physical action of swiping on the keyboard and "screen move" for actual result of that swipe.)

    When portrait mode swiping:
    7% chance - that the screen would move in the reversed direction than the one you swiped
    20% - no screen move at all (after swiping)
    30% - the screen moves just a little (after swiping)
    20% - the screen move is ok, still not as far as you'd like that swipe to get you
    15% - the screen doesn't stop where we rationally predict that it should stop (usually determined by how long was the swipe) OR the screen moves an extra 10-20 pixels after it almost seems to be done (moving), like the screen almost stops moving and then it moves an extra amount of pixels
    8% - good correlation between the length of the swipe and the screen move (really rarely happens)

    When landscape mode swiping:
    80% - good swiping experience
    20% - the swipe isn't accurate/responsive. The screen still moves but not as intended.

    To summarize all this, there isn't a correlation/relationship between the swipe on the keyboard and the actual move of the screen. When swiping on the screen, for example, you know that if you swipe "that hard" the screen would move "that fast" and if swiping a little, it will move the screen just a little. Well, if swiping on the keyboard - you never have that confidence. Sometimes 3-4, or 3-5 swipes on the keyboard can mean one swipe on the screen.

    As a result of this I rarely use the keyboard for swiping. So far the most responsive and functional function of the keyboard remains the one of deleting words if swiping backwards, really useful, top-notch.

    So how do you guys feel about keyboard swiping, what is your experience? Do you also have the feeling that you can do more and quicker if swiping on the screen rather than guessing "how many swipes it would take to actually get you where you want"?

    Thanks
    You need to do this test over. The results are null and void. The integrity of this test is compromised.

    The only way to accurately produce meaningful swiping percentages is if you swiped exactly the same way every time for every comparison swipe - same swipe zone boundary on the keyboard, same swipe zone contact between the contactor and the contactee to the nearest micrometer, same amount of pressure upon contact to the nearest microgram - every... single.... time. Being human, that's just impossible, so you're going to have to create some type of RFS - Robotic Finger Swiper. Additionally, you'll need to create some type of RFSC - Robotic Finger Swiper Calibrator that will be used to calibrate to a baseline in between successive tests. Preferably, you should also contract an outside, reputable, 3rd party to create a RFSCC - Robotic Finger Swiper Calibrator Checker - just to ensure your calibrator is working properly over time. The source code of your RFS should be open source, as to allow a peer review by the scientific community and associated academic institutions.

    Once that is finished, you'll be able to provide real results. Until then, your test percentages, and thereby the final results, are just an opinion. So, please get moving on the RFS and let us know when we should expect your first preliminary readings.

    Thanks!
    Barbareren likes this.
    07-05-17 10:06 AM
  14. SoxFan's Avatar
    You need to do this test over. The results are null and void. The integrity of this test is compromised.

    The only way to accurately produce meaningful swiping percentages is if you swiped exactly the same way every time for every comparison swipe - same swipe zone boundary on the keyboard, same swipe zone contact between the contactor and the contactee to the nearest micrometer, same amount of pressure upon contact to the nearest microgram - every... single.... time. Being human, that's just impossible, so you're going to have to create some type of RFS - Robotic Finger Swiper. Additionally, you'll need to create some type of RFSC - Robotic Finger Swiper Calibrator that will be used to calibrate to a baseline in between successive tests. Preferably, you should also contract an outside, reputable, 3rd party to create a RFSCC - Robotic Finger Swiper Calibrator Checker - just to ensure your calibrator is working properly over time. The source code of your RFS should be open source, as to allow a peer review by the scientific community and associated academic institutions.

    Once that is finished, you'll be able to provide real results. Until then, your test percentages, and thereby the final results, are just an opinion. So, please get moving on the RFS and let us know when we should expect your first preliminary readings.

    Thanks!
    But what is the best technique to get the most responsive / accurate swipes?
    07-05-17 10:09 AM
  15. ce71's Avatar
    I actually don't know anything about data analysis. I'm sure you're percentages are probably accurate.


    Although.. this guy didn't have a problem building a RFS! Guy Builds Right-Swiping Robot Finger to Get More Matches on Tinder
    07-05-17 10:23 AM
  16. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    I actually don't know anything about data analysis. I'm sure you're percentages are probably accurate.


    Although.. this guy didn't have a problem building a RFS! Guy Builds Right-Swiping Robot Finger to Get More Matches on Tinder
    Subjective evaluation here man No need for RFS or TGY or HYU or LLPI (*I just made these names up).
    07-05-17 10:30 AM
  17. ce71's Avatar
    Subjective evaluation here man No need for RFS or TGY or HYU or LLPI (*I just made these names up).
    In all seriousness, I've found the keyboard swiping to be a little glitchy at times. Not enough to cause any heart-ache... but a little unpredictable. I initially thought there was a non-symetrical pressure gradient in the swipe zone... but after really checking it out upon reading your post... it appears for me that the lowest row of the keyboard does not respond scrolling swipes. So in other words... if I swipe up from K to I... the page scrolls up. But if I swipe up from "sym" to M, the page does not respond. I do understand that "sym" is non-swipeable, but I included it just to give me enough room to effectively hit the M without touching the K.

    So yeah... the entire bottom row on my K1... alt to enter... does not seem to respond to swipes. Can you confirm/deny if you experience the same behavior?
    07-05-17 10:43 AM
  18. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    So yeah... the entire bottom row on my K1... alt to enter... does not seem to respond to swipes. Can you confirm/deny if you experience the same behavior?
    Yeah from Left Shift key to the right Shift key - dead.
    Regarding the Alt key, it seems to work, but not always, just as any key from the left side like "A" or "Q". Can't yet say which kind of swipe hard/soft triggers them, but for sure they are all "swipeable".
    07-05-17 10:55 AM
  19. ce71's Avatar
    Yeah from Left Shift key to the right Shift key - dead.
    Regarding the Alt key, it seems to work, but not always, just as any key from the left side like "A" or "Q". Can't yet say which kind of swipe hard/soft triggers them, but for sure they are all "swipeable".
    OK.. thanks. So it seems vertical swiping on the bottom row (ALT-ENTER) does not respond, but horizontal swiping does. The biggest question now is - how much do I care? Especially considering I have not even noticed until now. Is it worth a return? I'm leaning towards "no".
    07-05-17 11:18 AM
  20. gquan14's Avatar
    FYI - if you are "swiping to delete" only the top and bottom row actually work. If you do this in the middle row, you'll create unintended letters/words.
    07-05-17 11:19 AM
  21. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    OK.. thanks. So it seems vertical swiping on the bottom row (ALT-ENTER) does not respond, but horizontal swiping does. The biggest question now is - how much do I care? Especially considering I have not even noticed until now. Is it worth a return? I'm leaning towards "no".
    Well IDK, I can't decide that even for me. In my case, I can't even return it.
    Unfortunately where I bought it, they don't accept returns "just because I changed my mind" (I knew that when I bought the phone). And if selling it on ebay I lose ofc some money.

    But say I sell it. What other options do I have?
    Samsung - no, thanks, android again, and then, almost every second person I meet has one. No thanks.
    iPhone - I could afford one, but I don't like being pushed in a corner with no choice (from what I know, it's not that customizable as an Adnroid for example, you have to use what they set by default (like text app, phone app, images....).)
    Windows phones - I find the OS's UX, UI and all the other "U" being the lowest here.
    mmm any other good, reliable options? Can't see any for now. If say Nokia would develop an interesting, trustworthy OS, I'd try it out.

    On the other hand, if I keep the phone:
    - I still get some nice features. Worth the money? Hell no. But here comes the second argument:
    - I'll turn some heads when I pull it off and then... I could show them how my backwards swiping works : D (if seriously, it's different, and I like that)
    And then anyway no other options are now available for me. If not BlackBerry then anyway most probably some other Android. So why bother. But damn this company doesn't take seriously this phone. They could have done a better job with all the time they had and delays.

    What's really interesting, is that they've put such a high price tag on the phone because of the keyboard which is not actually as they advertised. Uneven spacebar click and bad swiping are just a few issues we have discovered so far.

    There is a chance that mobile apps won't be as important in the future and that any mobile OS will be able to run any apps (Progressive Web Apps). And if that's the case, BB10 could revive. https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb.../#post12951276
    Last edited by joker333; 07-05-17 at 05:23 PM.
    07-05-17 01:47 PM
  22. Livermore's Avatar
    OK.. thanks. So it seems vertical swiping on the bottom row (ALT-ENTER) does not respond, but horizontal swiping does. The biggest question now is - how much do I care? Especially considering I have not even noticed until now. Is it worth a return? I'm leaning towards "no".
    This is interesting. Right away when I got the phone I noticed the bottom row did not have the capacitive sensors, but upon reading your post I turned the phone horizontal and what do you know, they do have sensors and work flawless when scrolling horizontally, very bizarre.

    Posted via CB10
    07-05-17 09:44 PM
  23. double_fault's Avatar
    I agree with the OP.

    I stopped using the swipe up in the early days. It's just too inconsistent. However, the 3 word suggestions are pretty reliable and close to the keyboard making it very easy to just tap on the predicted word. Just like I always did on the q5.

    Posted via CB10
    07-05-17 10:07 PM
  24. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    This is interesting. Right away when I got the phone I noticed the bottom row did not have the capacitive sensors, but upon reading your post I turned the phone horizontal and what do you know, they do have sensors and work flawless when scrolling horizontally, very bizarre.

    Posted via CB10
    But the question is why do they disable the bottom row in vertical position? That is the most used orientation I would think, especially one handed.
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-05-17 10:08 PM
  25. katxeus's Avatar
    You need to do this test over. The results are null and void. The integrity of this test is compromised.

    The only way to accurately produce meaningful swiping percentages is if you swiped exactly the same way every time for every comparison swipe - same swipe zone boundary on the keyboard, same swipe zone contact between the contactor and the contactee to the nearest micrometer, same amount of pressure upon contact to the nearest microgram - every... single.... time. Being human, that's just impossible, so you're going to have to create some type of RFS - Robotic Finger Swiper. Additionally, you'll need to create some type of RFSC - Robotic Finger Swiper Calibrator that will be used to calibrate to a baseline in between successive tests. Preferably, you should also contract an outside, reputable, 3rd party to create a RFSCC - Robotic Finger Swiper Calibrator Checker - just to ensure your calibrator is working properly over time. The source code of your RFS should be open source, as to allow a peer review by the scientific community and associated academic institutions.

    Once that is finished, you'll be able to provide real results. Until then, your test percentages, and thereby the final results, are just an opinion. So, please get moving on the RFS and let us know when we should expect your first preliminary readings.

    Thanks!
    Not to mention writing a paper and publish in a scientific journal!
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    07-06-17 12:40 AM
32 12

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