[cgk]

Just as you reference those statements, someone could also reference the statement from BlackBerry twitter (again after Chen spoke to do damage control) that BlackBerry devices will continue to be available from shop BlackBerry and other channels.

Sure but you have to consider weight - i put a lot more stock in statements in an earning call by the CEO than a few tweets from someone at the bottom of the organisation food chain. The top main are pretty consistent on this - so why would i trust the twitter more?

[ray689]

Sure but you have to consider weight - i put a lot more stock in statements in an earning call by the CEO than a few tweets from someone at the bottom of the organisation food chain. The top main are pretty consistent on this - so why would i trust the twitter more?

But they aren't consistent. Thurber also said the very exact same thing as that tweet did.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Just as you reference those statements, someone could also reference the statement from BlackBerry twitter (again after Chen spoke to do damage control) that BlackBerry devices will continue to be available from shop BlackBerry and other channels.

Except that's a meaningless statement. Of course BB devices will continue to be available... until they aren't. They continued to be available for the week following that statement. But for HOW LONG will they continue to be available? That's the question! Of course, I'm pretty sure the answer is: until the inventory of current and past devices has been depleted.

That's the kind of non-statement that is carefully designed to cause (some) people to infer that BB will continue to distribute BB-branded devices for the foreseeable future - but that's really not the case - at least per Chen and his team. That statement is no different than the "we continue to support BB10" - with no definition given of what "support" means, the statement is meaningless - ON PURPOSE.

[Carjackd]

Very little heard about the dtek60 before it's release , I don't expect a lot of news prior to the Mercury release

[ardakca]

Scott Wenger
�The common thread is that it�s for customers who understand the need to protect their data from increasing threats,� Wenger suggested.

BlackBerry won�t just sit by the fire toasting marshmallows while licensees build the new BlackBerrys. Wenger has committed to promoting the brand, something that wasn�t discussed at the September announcement.

�Brand management is something that�s top of our minds. We will continue to market and promote the BlackBerry brand. As we transition to the licensing model, that�ll be more clear. We�re just not ready to share that now.�

[slagman5]

Strangely, I don't start every sentence with "I believe"; it gets a bit repetitive.

I guess I shouldn't hold my breath for your post containing the counter-point to refute my conclusions.

I would suggest that folk that post that other posters refrain from expressing their opinion, as you did, are generally highlighting that they have a weak counter-argument. Well, in my opinion of course.

There's no "counter-point" because I don't pretend to know any better. And in case there's some kind of language barrier (since I've already said it and you seemed to not have understood it, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there's some kind of communication error rather than a weak attempt at insulting you because that would show low self-esteem), but I have nothing against the expression of opinion but of stating an opinion as a matter of fact. Talk about repetitive, I'm fairly certain I've clarified that already, but again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and maybe I am out of my mind and only imagined stating that...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

But they aren't consistent. Thurber also said the very exact same thing as that tweet did.

Exactly, conflicting information everywhere. And as an Asian myself, I tend to not take every word literally from Chen because I know how Asians who speak English as a second language commonly confuses verbs and pronouns while speaking. I think non-Asians don't really understand the problem... I would try to look at everyone's statements and from that, I can only conclude that it's inconclusive. But hey, obviously others here know better and if we don't feel their opinions are as matter-of-fact as they put it then we just have a weak argument... (or lack of argument since I'm not stating anything specific about the chances of these devices. Damn I must be so unintelligent that even weak ad hominem insults confuse me..)

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[phuoc]

I think Troy hit the nail on the head. Let's just watch this situation play itself out. Slag, I'm white and my wife is Vietnamese so, at least I get it:-)

[ray689]

Except that's a meaningless statement. Of course BB devices will continue to be available... until they aren't. They continued to be available for the week following that statement. But for HOW LONG will they continue to be available? That's the question! Of course, I'm pretty sure the answer is: until the inventory of current and past devices has been depleted.

That's the kind of non-statement that is carefully designed to cause (some) people to infer that BB will continue to distribute BB-branded devices for the foreseeable future - but that's really not the case - at least per Chen and his team. That statement is no different than the "we continue to support BB10" - with no definition given of what "support" means, the statement is meaningless - ON PURPOSE.

Actually Thurber was responding to a question about the new strategy. But of course you would know better. One question though and you have avoided this at every turn, didn't you proclaim the Z30 as the last BlackBerry device ever? And you stated that as a fact.

This place is full of experts who do nothing but spend their time stating opinions as fact. I don't know whats going to happen, who will release the PKB device, where it will be available or how BlackBerry will oversee this new licensing strategy. But apparently a few in here must be in all these board meetings and already have the answers.

[slagman5]

I think Troy hit the nail on the head. Let's just watch this situation play itself out. Slag, I'm white and my wife is Vietnamese so, at least I get it:-)

I'm not familiar with the vietnamese language, but if their sentence structure is as different to English as Chinese is, then yes, I'm sure you've been called a "she" and "her" plenty of times. If it was up these CB people, that would be proof that you are in fact a woman...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[phuoc]

I'm not familiar with the vietnamese language, but if their sentence structure is as different to English as Chinese is, then yes, I'm sure you've been called a "she" and "her" plenty of times. If it was up these CB people, that would be proof that you are in fact a woman...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Yes, the sentence structure is a lot different than English and she does get the pronouns mixed up from time to time. My daughter-in-law is a Cantonese speaking Chinese and she does the same :-)

[slagman5]

Yes, the sentence structure is a lot different than English and she does get the pronouns mixed up from time to time. My daughter-in-law is a Cantonese speaking Chinese and she does the same :-)

I was lucky enough to have been born in a country that taught English as well as the native Chinese so I don't have that issue, but everyone in the generation behind me, mother, father, uncles, aunts, etc. and before have issues with pronouns, verbs, and probably other things. I often have to clarify what they meant by something they said. And it's not that they are not fluent in English, you can talk to them as fast as you like in English and use slang and everything and they understand, but it's putting the words together to form a sentence that still trips them up when they speak. When I hear Chen speak, I hear way too much of that, so I tend to wait for other members of the BB team to clarify what was said, lol.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[phuoc]

I understand completely. BTW, the daughter-in-law is a medical doctor and it's the little things that trip her up.

[tre10]

Actually Thurber was responding to a question about the new strategy. But of course you would know better. One question though and you have avoided this at every turn, didn't you proclaim the Z30 as the last BlackBerry device ever? And you stated that as a fact.

This place is full of experts who do nothing but spend their time stating opinions as fact. I don't know whats going to happen, who will release the PKB device, where it will be available or how BlackBerry will oversee this new licensing strategy. But apparently a few in here must be in all these board meetings and already have the answers.

Well to be fair the Z30 very well should have been the last BlackBerry ever made. Going by the financials every phone made after it was a loss, BB10 or android. If BlackBerry had transitioned to their current strategy after the Z30 it's arguable they'd be a little fatter in the bank(This is just my opinion, too many variables to state that as fact). They kept making phones because killing the revenue from their phones without something to replace it would be suicide.

If they had another profitable revenue stream to fall back on when Chen was hired there is a good chance the Z30 or the Passport would have been there last phone.

[ray689]

Well to be fair the Z30 very well should have been the last BlackBerry ever made. Going by the financials every phone made after it was a loss, BB10 or android. If BlackBerry had transitioned to their current strategy after the Z30 it's arguable they'd be a little fatter in the bank(This is just my opinion, too many variables to state that as fact). They kept making phones because killing the revenue from their phones without something to replace it would be suicide.

If they had another profitable revenue stream to fall back on when Chen was hired there is a good chance the Z30 or the Passport would have been there last phone.

Maybe so but it wasn't and the poster I responded to didn't say it should have been. He stated it WILL BE. Not really a strategy opinion but more of a declaration of what IS happening. Sort of like most of this thread.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Actually Thurber was responding to a question about the new strategy. But of course you would know better. One question though and you have avoided this at every turn, didn't you proclaim the Z30 as the last BlackBerry device ever? And you stated that as a fact.

I did not. I said "I suspect" - and remember this was right around the time that BB was put up for sale, but before they failed to find a buyer and before Fairfax loaned them $1.25B to continue operations.

My opinion at the time obviously didn't turn out to be correct - but it was still a pretty reasonable guess to make at that time.

[ray689]

I did not. I said "I suspect" - and remember this was right around the time that BB was put up for sale, but before they failed to find a buyer and before Fairfax loaned them $1.25B to continue operations.

My opinion at the time obviously didn't turn out to be correct - but it was still a pretty reasonable guess to make at that time.

I can't imagine you have posted anything with the words "I suspect" . Every single post of yours is matter of fact with all the answers.
And like mentioned earlier, opinion is one thing. When it's presented an an absolute fact, that's a different story.

[cgk]

I can't imagine you have posted anything with the words "I suspect" . Every single post of yours is matter of fact with all the answers.
And like mentioned earlier, opinion is one thing. When it's presented an an absolute fact, that's a different story.

This is just normal discourse - Troy like I and like others just assume that adults of normal mental capacity can work out that posts are effectively a thesis. Any good thesis generally doesn't make its own counter-case.

[ardakca]

Well here is the counter thesis.

Chen said they will outsource hardware.
Thurber who is in charge of the hardware made by partners said the pkb is coming within 6 months.
Chen said they are having talks with Indian and Chinese OEMs.
Beard who is responsible for in house hardware said DTEK60 was the last but he would be surprised if a PKB did not arrive.
Scott Wenger (head of marketing) said more phones will arrive and we are working on brand management.
BlackBerry insists that there will be more phones but not made in house.

So when adding these up, until they finalise the deals about outsourcing they can not give more details. But there are talks about new phones and it makes sense for Chinese not very known brands to use BlackBerry name in Europe and North America. BlackBerry is still a better name than LeEco for instance. By the way BlackBerry Android skin is pretty OK IMO.

If you look at it, the probability of seeing a pkb phone is as much as not seeing one. Earnings Call did not give any details about outsourcing deals since they are still in talks. In one interview Chen clearly said Thurber is the man to go about devices from now on which again makes senses because he is managing the outsourcing of hardware. He said the partners were excited about the demo unit, which is again a statement backed by Beard saying he would be surprised if he did not see a pkb phone. There you go.

[JeepBB]

Well here is the counter thesis.

Chen said they will outsource hardware.
Thurber who is in charge of the hardware made by partners said the pkb is coming within 6 months.
Chen said they are having talks with Indian and Chinese OEMs.
Beard who is responsible for in house hardware said DTEK60 was the last but he would be surprised if a PKB did not arrive.
Scott Wenger (head of marketing) said more phones will arrive and we are working on brand management.
BlackBerry insists that there will be more phones but not made in house.

So when adding these up, until they finalise the deals about outsourcing they can not give more details. But there are talks about new phones and it makes sense for Chinese not very known brands to use BlackBerry name in Europe and North America. BlackBerry is still a better name than LeEco for instance. By the way BlackBerry Android skin is pretty OK IMO.

If you look at it, the probability of seeing a pkb phone is as much as not seeing one. Earnings Call did not give any details about outsourcing deals since they are still in talks. In one interview Chen clearly said Thurber is the man to go about devices from now on which again makes senses because he is managing the outsourcing of hardware. He said the partners were excited about the demo unit, which is again a statement backed by Beard saying he would be surprised if he did not see a pkb phone. There you go.

All of which boils down to the likelihood of the licensed phone being a PKB device. And I agree with that.

However none of BB's statements supports the leap of faith you've made in assuming that PKB phone built by the licensee will be BB's Mercury design.

[ardakca]

All of which boils down to the likelihood of the licensed phone being a PKB device. And I agree with that.

However none of BB's statements supports the leap of faith you've made in assuming that PKB phone built by the licensee will be BB's Mercury design.

And none dismisses it. Mercury design may change or may not I don't know. But having an already made design is a strong hand in the talks. They may say we have done the design there you go produce it. Which would be a wise move to promote the outsourcing instead of burying it. But of course this is pure speculation.

[slagman5]

This is just normal discourse - Troy like I and like others just assume that adults of normal mental capacity can work out that posts are effectively a thesis. Any good thesis generally doesn't make its own counter-case.

I love these weak attempts at personal insults. Some other person had the same exact response. It kind of helps the counter argument, so keep it up, ad hominem works I swear. ;-)

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

Well here is the counter thesis.

Chen said they will outsource hardware.
Thurber who is in charge of the hardware made by partners said the pkb is coming within 6 months.
Chen said they are having talks with Indian and Chinese OEMs.
Beard who is responsible for in house hardware said DTEK60 was the last but he would be surprised if a PKB did not arrive.
Scott Wenger (head of marketing) said more phones will arrive and we are working on brand management.
BlackBerry insists that there will be more phones but not made in house.

So when adding these up, until they finalise the deals about outsourcing they can not give more details. But there are talks about new phones and it makes sense for Chinese not very known brands to use BlackBerry name in Europe and North America. BlackBerry is still a better name than LeEco for instance. By the way BlackBerry Android skin is pretty OK IMO.

If you look at it, the probability of seeing a pkb phone is as much as not seeing one. Earnings Call did not give any details about outsourcing deals since they are still in talks. In one interview Chen clearly said Thurber is the man to go about devices from now on which again makes senses because he is managing the outsourcing of hardware. He said the partners were excited about the demo unit, which is again a statement backed by Beard saying he would be surprised if he did not see a pkb phone. There you go.

No, what do you mean? It has to be either that it's definitely positively not coming, or that it definitely is and if you disagree you're wrong and stupid! (oh, but of course you should just assume that I meant that was just my opinion)

😂

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[ray689]

This is just normal discourse - Troy like I and like others just assume that adults of normal mental capacity can work out that posts are effectively a thesis. Any good thesis generally doesn't make its own counter-case.

But unlike most adults you resort to insulting one's mental capacity. Like mentioned before an opinion is one thing and facts are another. As you have already declared, the PKB WILL be only available in Indonesia, and i believe you also said India. Refer to the below defining to further explain what you and Troy seem to over look when stating your "opinion" .

A*fact*is a statement that can be proven true.� �An*opinion*expresses someone's belief, feeling, view, idea, or judgment about something or someone.� �Facts*are statements that can be shown to be true or can be proved, or something that really happened.

So to clarify, when stating an opinion, one typically uses qualifiers such as "I believe" or "I think" , not "WILL " or "IS" without any fact to back it up.

[cgk]

I love these weak attempts at personal insults. Some other person had the same exact response. It kind of helps the counter argument, so keep it up, ad hominem works I swear. ;-)

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

It's not an ad hominem because it's not aimed at you - it's just making the broad point that on a discussion board like this - that posters understand that we aren't discussing scientific data at an academic conference and therefore having to be "my belief.." at the start of sentences is not required.