05-21-19 04:24 PM
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  1. thurask's Avatar
    What promises has BlackBerry Mobile not kept?

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    For one, they promised three devices for 2017 and delivered two (no, the black Keyone isn't a new device). That they've quietly removed mentions of the Sprint and China Motion variants from their website is another time they've bit off more than they can chew, although they had the forethought to not come out publicly and say that they'll release before pulling the plug.

    Setting the expected release of Oreo as "later this year" gives them time to work on it and/or weasel out of it without needing to focus on a specific deadline; I have to say they're smarter than BlackBerry Ltd in that regard.
    02-22-18 11:49 AM
  2. nrussell18's Avatar
    Great news!!!
    02-22-18 11:52 AM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For one, they promised three devices for 2017 and delivered two (no, the black Keyone isn't a new device). That they've quietly removed mentions of the Sprint and China Motion variants from their website is another time they've bit off more than they can chew, although they had the forethought to not come out publicly and say that they'll release before pulling the plug.

    Setting the expected release of Oreo as "later this year" gives them time to work on it and/or weasel out of it without needing to focus on a specific deadline; I have to say they're smarter than BlackBerry Ltd in that regard.
    To me, those seem more like changes in plans than broken promises. I don't treat an announcement of a business plan as a promise, as no one put money down for any of those things. No value exchanged = no agreement, so no commitment.

    But not delivering an upgrade or set of promised patches to paying customers would be a promise broken. I'd estimate the odds of BlackBerry Mobile delivering on those commitments to be 99%+ if they are still in the smartphone business and 25% if they leave the business.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-22-18 11:55 AM
  4. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    But not delivering an upgrade or set of promised patches to paying customers would be a promise broken. I'd estimate the odds of BlackBerry Mobile delivering on those commitments to be 99%+ if they are still in the smartphone business and 25% if they leave the business.
    BlackBerry Mobile's only business is smartphones, so if they stop producing new models they would have zero incentive to continue patching.
    02-22-18 01:24 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile's only business is smartphones, so if they stop producing new models they would have zero incentive to continue patching.
    They would certainly have zero market incentive in terms of future sales of new models, but that doesn't equate to zero incentives. For example, there might be a risk of fines and/or judgements in some jurisdictions, or potential consequences for other TCL partnerships.

    Finally, it's possible that the financial terms of the contract with Blackberry Limited to actually develop the patches and updates could prevent them from avoiding the cost, in which case it would make little sense not to provide the patches/updates.

    For these reasons, I estimate that, even if they stop producing new models, BlackBerry Mobile may still fulfill its commitment for these devices.
    02-22-18 02:03 PM
  6. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    For these reasons, I estimate that, even if they stop producing new models, BlackBerry Mobile may still fulfill its commitment for these devices.
    I thought of those too, and it is definitely possible. Without seeing how TCL structured their licensing agreements nothing is really certain. I do tend to lean toward the belief that TCL seems to be risk-adverse with how they handle BBMo. That would include minimal production runs and no long-term commitments to BBRY - and honestly, what leverage would BBRY have over their hardware partners? If TCL did not take the NA license I can't imagine who would.

    As far as commitments to consumers go; we still do not have any evidence of fleet sales a year into the experiment. Hopefully, they will gradually convince enterprise that they are in it for the long-term, which is a major selling point to fleet buyers and carriers.
    02-22-18 02:31 PM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    They would certainly have zero market incentive in terms of future sales of new models, but that doesn't equate to zero incentives. For example, there might be a risk of fines and/or judgements in some jurisdictions, or potential consequences for other TCL partnerships.

    Finally, it's possible that the financial terms of the contract with Blackberry Limited to actually develop the patches and updates could prevent them from avoiding the cost, in which case it would make little sense not to provide the patches/updates.

    For these reasons, I estimate that, even if they stop producing new models, BlackBerry Mobile may still fulfill its commitment for these devices.
    BB Merah Putih..... "The beautifully designed BlackBerry Aurora comes with a number of features that are uniquely BlackBerry. Out of the box, the device runs Android OS 7.0 Nougat – giving users access to the entire Google Play store and apps – and will receive regular security updates".....

    In the end TCL Communications is the one that is in real trouble, and I doubt TCL Corp is going to at some point step in a throw money at the problem. Simple truth of the matter is that many manufactures are facing difficulties making money in the existing market. The huge smartphone growth phase is over... consolidation is taking place, and they weak will perish.

    You can believe that BlackBerry has it all setup so that BBMo will have to push out updates no matter what, or that they themselves will take on providing updates and support if TCL Communication is it's self ended.

    Many believed that the PRIV and DETEK would get Nougat... Many believed that the PlayBook would get BB10.... Many believed that the iPhone killer the STORM just needed a patch to fix it....
    02-22-18 03:44 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    BB Merah Putih..... "The beautifully designed BlackBerry Aurora comes with a number of features that are uniquely BlackBerry. Out of the box, the device runs Android OS 7.0 Nougat – giving users access to the entire Google Play store and apps – and will receive regular security updates".....

    In the end TCL Communications is the one that is in real trouble, and I doubt TCL Corp is going to at some point step in a throw money at the problem. Simple truth of the matter is that many manufactures are facing difficulties making money in the existing market. The huge smartphone growth phase is over... consolidation is taking place, and they weak will perish.

    You can believe that BlackBerry has it all setup so that BBMo will have to push out updates no matter what, or that they themselves will take on providing updates and support if TCL Communication is it's self ended.

    Many believed that the PRIV and DETEK would get Nougat... Many believed that the PlayBook would get BB10.... Many believed that the iPhone killer the STORM just needed a patch to fix it....
    I estimated 25%. That's hardly a vote of confidence if BlackBerry Mobile exits.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-22-18 04:34 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Also IF BlackBerry Mobile stops producing handsets BUT fulfills its commitments to support it will be out of self interest, not generosity. My point was that it may be cheaper to provide the promised updates than to stop them due to contracts and the potential costs of fines and judgements

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-22-18 04:40 PM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Also IF BlackBerry Mobile stops producing handsets BUT fulfills its commitments to support it will be out of self interest, not generosity. My point was that it may be cheaper to provide the promised updates than to stop them due to contracts and the potential costs of fines and judgements

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Haven't seen any fines or judgments against BlackBerry.... Couldn't be any clearer that the PlayBook was promised to get BB10.

    This program that BBMo devices currently qualifies for, is no contractual arrangement between BBMo and their customers. Even if they did go back on their word.... nobody is going to bother suing them and no agency is going to fine them. Marketing is full of lies... or stretching the truth to unbelievable limit. Look a a picture of a Big Mac and then go buy one....
    02-23-18 08:44 AM
  11. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Haven't seen any fines or judgments against BlackBerry.... Couldn't be any clearer that the PlayBook was promised to get BB10.

    This program that BBMo devices currently qualifies for, is no contractual arrangement between BBMo and their customers. Even if they did go back on their word.... nobody is going to bother suing them and no agency is going to fine them. Marketing is full of lies... or stretching the truth to unbelievable limit. Look a a picture of a Big Mac and then go buy one....
    So because you never heard about fines or judgements regarding the PlayBook, you think there is zero likelihood of fines or judgements if BlackBerry Mobile pulls out of its commitment to Android Enterprise? I wouldn't go that far. The PlayBook "commitment " was pretty soft in that it was a statement of intent from senior management. It was not included in any licensing agreements, warranties, etc. The commitment to BlackBerry Enterprise is a 3rd party certification, so I'd say it's a stronger commitment so that the likelihood of financial risk in BlackBerry not fulfilling it's commitment is NOT zero.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-23-18 09:14 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Also, the issue is not that BlackBerry Mobile will experience actual fines and/or judgments. The issue is whether management's estimation of the likely costs associates with avoiding or paying potential fines and judgments would be sufficient to motivate them to fulfill their commitments.

    My speculative opinion is that there is a reasonable (>10%) likelihood that BlackBerry Mobile managers considered the cost of the commitment before submitting their application to Android Enterprise so that it is now considered a sunk cost of marketing.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-23-18 09:24 AM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    So because you never heard about fines or judgements regarding the PlayBook, you think there is zero likelihood of fines or judgements if BlackBerry Mobile pulls out of its commitment to Android Enterprise? I wouldn't go that far. The PlayBook "commitment " was pretty soft in that it was a statement of intent from senior management. It was not included in any licensing agreements, warranties, etc. The commitment to BlackBerry Enterprise is a 3rd party certification, so I'd say it's a stronger commitment so that the likelihood of financial risk in BlackBerry not fulfilling it's commitme.t is NOT zero.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    It's Android Enterprise Recommended not commitment or contract.... in the FAQ it tells you that devices will simply be removed if the manufacture doesn't maintain the standards. There is no commitment with this program. It's simply a voluntary referral program, one that is mostly like meant to try and stem Samsung's dominance in the Android world.

    FYI... you won't find any promises about updates in any BBMo licensing agreements or warranties either. Few marketing comments just like the one I posted about the Aurora.
    02-23-18 09:38 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Haven't seen any fines or judgments against BlackBerry.... Couldn't be any clearer that the PlayBook was promised to get BB10.

    This program that BBMo devices currently qualifies for, is no contractual arrangement between BBMo and their customers. Even if they did go back on their word.... nobody is going to bother suing them and no agency is going to fine them. Marketing is full of lies... or stretching the truth to unbelievable limit. Look a a picture of a Big Mac and then go buy one....
    I take all long term commitments with a grain of salt. Companies change, the world changes, markets change, etc.

    But it's still better than silence. At least the intent is there.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    02-23-18 09:40 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's Android Enterprise Recommended not commitment or contract.... in the FAQ it tells you that devices will simply be removed if the manufacture doesn't maintain the standards. There is no commitment with this program. It's simply a voluntary referral program, one that is mostly like meant to try and stem Samsung's dominance in the Android world.

    FYI... you won't find any promises about updates in any BBMo licensing agreements or warranties either. Few marketing comments just like the one I posted about the Aurora.
    OK. Well, I've stated my estimate. 25% is my best guess of the likelihood that BlackBerry Mobile fulfills its commitment for the phones in the Android Enterprise program even if it stops producing new phones. That's my estimate of the sum of conditions that would lead to a rational decision to continue patching over the promised time period.

    You are obviously free to calculate the odds for yourself. It's not my wish to convince you, only to explain how I think about uncertainties like this.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-23-18 09:43 AM
  16. dastillero1975's Avatar
    What promises has BlackBerry Mobile not kept?

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    On a few days to push monthly updates to K1 XD
    02-23-18 01:30 PM
  17. krazyatom's Avatar
    No Samsung, OnePlus, Essential.

    https://androidenterprisepartners.wi...s/browse-all/2

    In addition to 3 years of security patches, you have to COMMIT to at least one major update too.

    Sounds like a huge front page story!! @Bla1ze.
    So do we still get 3 years of security patches?
    05-17-19 03:42 PM
  18. krazyatom's Avatar
    If they don't follow through it would mean they were no longer in the device business - so I suppose it wouldn't matter.
    Conite, please explain??
    Crusader03 and Grungni like this.
    05-17-19 03:54 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    So do we still get 3 years of security patches?
    That's what the discussion has been about. We will know for sure in 90 days.
    05-17-19 03:55 PM
  20. Crusader03's Avatar
    No-one here has an inside channel to BBMo/TCL? Hard to believe! Or can you just not say?
    05-17-19 04:05 PM
  21. anon(10562251)'s Avatar
    KEYone could technically get away with just three more updates (one every three months, counting from April 2019) and still comply. That would take us to April 2020 by the time the final update "expires".
    krazyatom likes this.
    05-17-19 04:18 PM
  22. krazyatom's Avatar
    KEYone could technically get away with just three more updates (one every three months, counting from April 2019) and still comply. That would take us to April 2020 by the time the final update "expires".
    Is it hard to update the security patch or cost a lot of money for BBMO? Why are they gambling with their clients?
    05-17-19 04:28 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Is it hard to update the security patch or cost a lot of money for BBMO? Why are they gambling with their clients?
    Everything costs money. They have to compare that to how many people would actually switch to another device next strictly because of that.

    I still believe they should uphold the commitment to the program, even if they weren't acutely aware of the 3 year requirement when they signed on.

    TCL has not broken any promises to date, and I hope they wouldn't start now.
    pnw_yetti likes this.
    05-17-19 04:39 PM
  24. anon(10562251)'s Avatar
    Is it hard to update the security patch or cost a lot of money for BBMO? Why are they gambling with their clients?
    There's also another way of looking at it.

    Three years of updates every 3 months / 90 days is only 12 patches. Except for the three year time span, BBMo has already exceeded 12 patches and provided their one letter upgrade for the KEYone. Obviously that doesn't fit the definition of what the Enterprise program is "supposed to" achieve...but then again, it's also not BBMo's fault this program came about after the KEYone was released. Perhaps Google granted them some leeway and/or some kind of an exemption...
    05-17-19 05:18 PM
  25. Emaderton3's Avatar
    There's also another way of looking at it.

    Three years of updates every 3 months / 90 days is only 12 patches. Except for the three year time span, BBMo has already exceeded 12 patches and provided their one letter upgrade for the KEYone. Obviously that doesn't fit the definition of what the Enterprise program is "supposed to" achieve...but then again, it's also not BBMo's fault this program came about after the KEYone was released. Perhaps Google granted them some leeway and/or some kind of an exemption...
    But 3 months is arbitrary. I f I just get an update and a bad vulnerability comes along right after, should I really have to wait 3 more months to get it patched when other phones get it sooner?
    05-17-19 06:47 PM
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