[conite]

But there is nothing saying that BBMobile can't put some of that "polish and refinement" into their "BB android OS".

It may not suit your particular taste, but Android (and by extension, BlackBerry Android) IS polished and refined. It's just different.

There is a limit to how Android can be skinned, and invariably, the more you do, the more bloated it becomes. Lightweight and clean rules the day. Use apps to customize.

[anon(10268214)]

It may not suit your particular taste, but Android (and by extension, BlackBerry Android) IS polished and refined. It's just different.

There is a limit to how Android can be skinned, and invariably, the more you do, the more bloated it becomes. Lightweight and clean rules the day. Use apps to customize.

Well, to use the same argument - the BlackBerry launcher is an App. A more BB10 look and feel can be created by the flip of a toggle in the settings - just like Touchwiz. It's not rocket science.

Its not the technical challenges, but rather peoples' eagerness to defend the status quo that's annoying and frustrating about the 'customization' issue...particularly when it's glaringly obvious the status quo is not good enough for a large proportion of potential AND existing Android BlackBerry customers that are making the switch from BB10.

Obviously what I said earlier about the BB10 icon pack was tongue and cheek. I think BBMo can do a lot better than cheap tricks and gimmicks. And they might want to take all this just a little more seriously if we are all going to be here talking about BlackBerry phones two years from now.

[conite]

Well, to use the same argument - the BlackBerry launcher is an App. A more BB10 look and feel can be created by the flip of a toggle in the settings - just like Touchwiz. It's not rocket science.

Its not the technical challenges, but rather peoples' eagerness to defend the status quo that's annoying and frustrating about the 'customization' issue...particularly when it's glaringly obvious the status quo is not good enough for a large proportion of potential AND existing Android BlackBerry customers that are making the switch from BB10.

Obviously what I said earlier about the BB10 icon pack was tongue and cheek. I think BBMo can do a lot better than cheap tricks and gimmicks. And they might want to take all this just a little more seriously if we are all going to be here talking about BlackBerry phones two years from now.

You want swipe to HUB? Use All in One Gestures app. But having an "always on" background HUB layer like BB10 is not skinnable.

What else are we talking about? Swipe within apps? Not doable, as that is an app issue (and material design issue), not a skin issue. Swipe gestures on homescreen? Use various gesture apps or try another Launcher - there are lots of possibilities.

There are so few people left on BB10 (many of which would never consider Android no matter what you offer them), that it isn't worth the development effort. If BlackBerry Mobile is going to make inroads with the brand, it will come from existing Android users.

[Bla1ze]

My biggest complaint with Android Nougat is the lack of an integrated file manager and the mass of notifications that have to be configured separately on each app. BlackBerry is making progress providing a file manager, and the word is that Android Oreo will make progress in the taming of Notifications.

This isn't even accruate though. There is a file manager, it's just not very robust or user facing. And BlackBerry hasn't done anything, TCL did by adding a user facing file manager on Motion/Chinese KEYones

Every version of Android has offered dramatic improvements, and BlackBerry's Hub+ Suite allows me to largely bypass Google's services for calendar, contacts, tasks, etc.

Bypassing Google and all that is fine, but there's a fundamental flaw in BlackBerry's implementation and that comes by way of backups. Unlike Google's offerings, when you use BlackBerry's apps, there's no great way to back things up which are a pretty big issue we see here daily.

There are so few people left on BB10 (many of which would never consider Android no matter what you offer them), that it isn't worth the development effort. If BlackBerry Mobile is going to make inroads with the brand, it will come from existing Android users.

Pretty much what I was getting at.

[anon(10268214)]

You want swipe to HUB? Use All in One Gestures app. But having an "always on" background HUB layer like BB10 is not skinnable.

What else are we talking about? Swipe within apps? Not doable, as that is an app issue (and material design issue), not a skin issue. Swipe gestures on homescreen? Use various gesture apps or try another Launcher - there are lots of possibilities.

There are so few people left on BB10 (many of which would never consider Android no matter what you offer them), that it isn't worth the development effort. If BlackBerry Mobile is going to make inroads with the brand, it will come from existing Android users.

Obviously I'm talking about the options that ARE do-able. And I did specifically mention the BlackBerry launcher as the vehicle for this, several times. I also already said I realize there are apps for this. That is not my point. This is a more authentic BlackBerry experience that is sought...and the only way it can be achieved is through third party apps? Nonsense. It should be done by a BlackBerry App.

To say there just aren't enough people that care...I don't buy it. That is an argument of convenience. To write off die-hard BB10 users completely is also a very callous attitude. Eventually, they will be taking their business elsewhere. Is TCL really prepared to cut all that ballast loose? Maybe we should have a peek at their business plan and find out.

[conite]

This is a more authentic BlackBerry experience that is sought...and the only way it can be achieved is through third party apps? Nonsense. It should be done by a BlackBerry App.

Sought by whom?

As I said, many of the remaining few on BB10 would never go Android.

[anon(10268214)]

Sought by whom?

As I said, many of the remaining few on BB10 would never go Android.

Oh I don't know...all the people who are constantly complaining about how crappy Android is maybe? Perhaps you have seen a few of those around?

TCL needs to stop being so cheap and throw them a few bones. Maybe more of them will actually start believing all that extra money for a mid-tier hardware offering from BBMo is worth the cost. Lol.

[conite]

Oh I don't know...all the people who are constantly complaining about how crappy Android is maybe? Perhaps you have seen a few of those around?

TCL needs to stop being so cheap and throw them a few bones. Maybe more of them will actually start believing all that extra money for a mid-tier hardware offering from BBMo is worth the cost. Lol.

A few dozen data points from those still hanging on to BB10 does not necessarily justify hundreds of thousands of dollars of development.

I would imagine BlackBerry Mobile did the math already.

[anon(10268214)]

A few dozen data points. Lol.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

Oh I don't know...all the people who are constantly complaining about how crappy Android is maybe? Perhaps you have seen a few of those around?

TCL needs to stop being so cheap and throw them a few bones. Maybe more of them will actually start believing all that extra money for a mid-tier hardware offering from BBMo is worth the cost. Lol.

Wow. You think TCL should "throw them a few bones." To people who haven't bought any of their products?? Really??


LOL

[bb10adopter111]

Sought by whom?

As I said, many of the remaining few on BB10 would never go Android.

I am not so sure about that. There are probably just as many who would never go Apple either. The data on this forum is a little skewed towards diehard BlackBerry fans, but in the real world there are people like me who don't really care which platform we're on so long as we can work effectively.

I found Apple BY FAR the worst of the mobile OSes when it comes to usability in a small business environment. Trying to untangle all of the Apple controls and dependences to use third party cloud services like SharePoint for things like photos and videos is too complicated for most busy executives.

But, until M, Android's permission controls were unmanageable, and it's notifications are still a mess. The whole platform is just too noisy, like a bad website with two dozen Javascript apps running. Google seems to know this, because each version provides better central management tools for these settings.

I think that BlackBerry Mobile should market aggressively to current and past BlackBerry users by continuing to streamline the user experience for professional work flows, and producing short task-oriented videos to show off those innovations, aimed squarely at people who "get" the way that BlackBerry was a professional's best friend.

But I agree completely that an arbitrary "skin" that is reminiscent of BB10 or BBOS doesn't accomplish any of those goals.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10268214)]

Wow. You think TCL should "throw them a few bones." To people who haven't bought any of their products?? Really??


LOL

So...still running up the post count by taking cheap shots at BB10 hold-outs? I thought most of those folks left the building already.

It costs money to win over new customers. Does that mean I am agreeing with hyperbolic nonsense like $100K+ in development costs for a few dozen data points? I said a few bones, not a bonanza. LMAO

[Denise in Los Angeles]

So...still running up the post count by taking cheap shots at BB10 hold-outs? I thought most of those folks left the building already.

It costs money to win over new customers. Does that mean I am agreeing with hyperbolic nonsense like $100K+ in development costs for a few dozen data points? I said a few bones, not a bonanza. LMAO

I am not taking shots at any BB10 hold-outs. I just can't understand how TCL needs to throw ANY bones at you. They are spending money. Just not spending it the way you suggest.

[anon(10268214)]

I am not taking shots at any BB10 hold-outs. I just can't understand how TCL needs to throw ANY bones at you. They are spending money. Just not spending it the way you suggest.

Listen, I don't know where you come up with your assumptions, but I am already a BlackBerry Android customer. Have been since 2016. And I was a BB10 customer before that. And a BBOS customer before that. So I make my comments based on the perspective of one who supports the BlackBerry brand with my wallet. Nor I am not one who needs convincing. But make no mistake, there are many others that do. Not the least of which...you guessed it...traditonal BlackBerry customers.

So yeah TCL, pony up the cash and do a little better. We are all rooting for you.

Well, most of us anyway. Lol.

[conite]

Does that mean I am agreeing with hyperbolic nonsense like $100K+ in development costs for a few dozen data points? I said a few bones, not a bonanza. LMAO

Why is it hyperbolic nonsense? Go back a full year on CB, and I doubt you would find 100 unique users requesting more (actually achievable) BB10 "features" on BlackBerry Android (whatever that means anyway).

[anon(10268214)]

Why is it hyperbolic nonsense? Go back a full year on CB, and I doubt you would find 100 unique users requesting more (actually achievable) BB10 "features" on BlackBerry Android (whatever that means anyway).

That's what I thought. You actually believe it's only a dozen people who care about this. And you don't think it's hyperbole either.

OK you know what, you guys (and gals) are right. I'm the one who is out in left field on this one. No additional BlackBerry inspired improvements are necessary, especially ones borrowed from BB10. Keep preaching BlackBerry Android is perfect and that we should all accept it as is. Pick up a few new apps from Playstore, and be done with it. I guess that is one solution for poor marketing decisions that fail to win over existing customers. Lol.

[conite]

That's what I thought. You actually believe it's only a dozen people who care about this. And you don't think it's hyperbole either.

OK you know what, you guys (and gals) are right. I'm the one who is out in left field on this one. No additional BlackBerry inspired improvements are necessary, especially ones borrowed from BB10. Keep preaching BlackBerry Android is perfect and that we should all accept it as is. Pick up a few new apps from Playstore, and be done with it. I guess that is one solution for poor marketing decisions that fail to win over existing customers. Lol.

The HUB+ Services suite is constantly being updated. It is not perfect, but it is always improving.

The nature of the suite itself can only accommodate certain features - all of which must fit within the constraints of the OS and Material Design.

I'm sure BlackBerry has a list of features that they wish/want to add, many based on customer feedback - and that they have all been sorted by ROI and/or ease of implementation.

You're proposing arbitrarily moving some (BB10) features up in the queue based on what you perceive as widespread wants based on what you read from yourself and a number of people here on this site.

I suggest that BlackBerry has better metrics than you (or CB). That's all I'm saying.

[Chuck Finley69]

Obviously I'm talking about the options that ARE do-able. And I did specifically mention the BlackBerry launcher as the vehicle for this, several times. I also already said I realize there are apps for this. That is not my point. This is a more authentic BlackBerry experience that is sought...and the only way it can be achieved is through third party apps? Nonsense. It should be done by a BlackBerry App.

To say there just aren't enough people that care...I don't buy it. That is an argument of convenience. To write off die-hard BB10 users completely is also a very callous attitude. Eventually, they will be taking their business elsewhere. Is TCL really prepared to cut all that ballast loose? Maybe we should have a peek at their business plan and find out.

Most already took business elsewhere. Many in the period when BB10 was like 12-18 months late in their own time schedule and then additional numbers around time BB10 was introduced, tried and returned when users returned all those Z10s.

Easier and far more lucrative to attract millions of Android users than waste time on the alternative crowd. By definition, the minority outliers are the minority and the outliers.

[anon(10268214)]

The HUB+ Services suite is constantly being updated. It is not perfect, but it is always improving.

The nature of the suite itself can only accommodate certain features - all of which must fit within the constraints of the OS and Material Design.

I'm sure BlackBerry has a list of features that they wish/want to add, many based on customer feedback - and that they have all been sorted by ROI and/or ease of implementation.

You're proposing arbitrarily moving some (BB10) features up in the queue based on what you perceive as widespread wants based on what you read from yourself and a number of people here on this site.

I suggest that BlackBerry has better metrics than you (or CB). That's all I'm saying.

They may have better metrics, or they may not. At the end of the day, there is no better ROI than spending nothing and pretending an issue doesn't exist...if you can get away with it. That doesn't make it the best solution.

The fact of the matter is, CrackBerry is now the official support forum for BlackBerry products. BBMo made it that way. That means something. Therefore, what the users on this site say means something too. If that's not an important metric that should be taken seriously, I don't know what is.

[conite]

Therefore, what the users on this site say means something too. If that's not an important metric that should be taken seriously, I don't know what is.

Who says that isn't factored in?

You seem to be very confident in dismissing BlackBerry's business model for the app suite because it doesn't coincide with your anecdotal "evidence".

[bb10adopter111]

The target market for BlackBerry Mobile has got to start with current and past BlackBerry users, as people who had a good experience with the brand will be easier to persuade to try it on Android. Obviously they also need to appeal to other professionals in the 1B Android community, but converting a reasonable number of the 30-50M former BlackBerry users would be a good "beach head" strategy.

But the benefits can't be gimmicks or cosmetics. BlackBerry needs to create a better overall Android experience for professional users who don't care about tech specs for their own sake.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10268214)]

Most already took business elsewhere. Many in the period when BB10 was like 12-18 months late in their own time schedule and then additional numbers around time BB10 was introduced, tried and returned when users returned all those Z10s.

Easier and far more lucrative to attract millions of Android users than waste time on the alternative crowd. By definition, the minority outliers are the minority and the outliers.

Again, I think that is a very callous approach and works against what BBMo is trying to accomplish. They are definitely trying to appeal to traditional BlackBerry customers. A significant portion of which, adopters included, are not happy with BlackBerry Android in its current form. Put two and two together, and most reasonable people will realize some additional investment is needed to make their product appeal across a broader spectrum of their own target market, not some imaginary demographic of agnostic Android users awaiting enlightenment.

[conite]

The target market for BlackBerry Mobile has got to start with current and past BlackBerry users, as people who had a good experience with the brand will be easier to persuade to try it on Android. Obviously they also need to appeal to other professionals in the 1B Android community, but converting a reasonable number of the 30-50M former BlackBerry users would be a good "beach head" strategy.

But the benefits can't be gimmicks or cosmetics. BlackBerry needs to create a better overall Android experience for professional users who don't care about tech specs for their own sake.

Posted with my trusty Z10

But most former users are already long gone and have acclimatized already. We're really talking about the remaining few - many of whom wouldn't consider android anyway.

Plus, as I mentioned, you can only do what you can under the very tight constraints of Material Design.

[anon(10268214)]

Who says that isn't factored in?

You seem to be very confident in dismissing BlackBerry's business model for the app suite because it doesn't coincide with your anecdotal "evidence".

It doesn't completely coincide, no. You know that as well as I do. Therefore, there IS room for improvement. Clearly.

[conite]

Again, I think that is a very callous approach and works against what BBMo is trying to accomplish. They are definitely trying to appeal to traditional BlackBerry customers. A significant portion of which, adopters included, are not happy with BlackBerry Android in its current form. Put two and two together, and most reasonable people will realize some additional investment is needed to make their product appeal across a broader spectrum of their own target market, not some imaginary demographic of agnostic Android users awaiting enlightenment.

Where is all this quality data you have compiled that you are convinced is superior to that of BlackBerry's?