09-14-17 08:17 PM
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  1. curves2000's Avatar
    As a long term BlackBerry users and a long term shareholder, I can't view the news that the government of Canada has decided to move in a different direction as anything but a negative.

    It is true that BlackBerry doesn't manufacture handsets anymore and they are in the enterprise and government software business. If the majority of the existing devices that are being used by government employees are BlackBerry devices and the replacement devices will be a majority of Samsung or Apple phones, that doesn't help BlackBerry or BlackBerry Mobile overall.

    The hope is that by moving to Android and having a large, well known company such as TCL build the hardware for the BlackBerry Mobile brand, that it would allow BlackBerry to continue to receive a high margin royalty for devices being sold. This was the reason for the licensing agreement.

    I really hope that BlackBerry Mobile can earn a decent share of wallet from some enterprise and government clients around the world, BlackBerry as a company could really use the high margin revenue in order to maintain their hardware related software people.

    From a shareholders view, BlackBerry doesn't require any hardware or licensing revenue to financially survive in its current state but it would certainly make the transition and the growth aspect a lot easier if they could bring in $50-60 million a quarter in licensing revenue with a 90% margin. The profits could help fuel further deals and development which in turn fuels additional revenue and profits.

    Good luck to BlackBerry Mobile

    Posted via CB10
    08-05-17 04:05 PM
  2. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    As a long term BlackBerry users and a long term shareholder, I can't view the news that the government of Canada has decided to move in a different direction as anything but a negative.

    It is true that BlackBerry doesn't manufacture handsets anymore and they are in the enterprise and government software business. If the majority of the existing devices that are being used by government employees are BlackBerry devices and the replacement devices will be a majority of Samsung or Apple phones, that doesn't help BlackBerry or BlackBerry Mobile overall.

    The hope is that by moving to Android and having a large, well known company such as TCL build the hardware for the BlackBerry Mobile brand, that it would allow BlackBerry to continue to receive a high margin royalty for devices being sold. This was the reason for the licensing agreement.

    I really hope that BlackBerry Mobile can earn a decent share of wallet from some enterprise and government clients around the world, BlackBerry as a company could really use the high margin revenue in order to maintain their hardware related software people.

    From a shareholders view, BlackBerry doesn't require any hardware or licensing revenue to financially survive in its current state but it would certainly make the transition and the growth aspect a lot easier if they could bring in $50-60 million a quarter in licensing revenue with a 90% margin. The profits could help fuel further deals and development which in turn fuels additional revenue and profits.

    Good luck to BlackBerry Mobile

    Posted via CB10
    every knock and every miss step slowly puts another nail in the box. Companies invest in and buy from companies that are not losing large contracts. This is a knife thru the heart. If this was a one horse race BlackBerry could not pick the winner.
    08-05-17 04:23 PM
  3. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    BlackBerry has continued to fall further and further behind since it walked away from hardware. Security updates are no longer as frequent. The PRIV and DTEKs are languishing in Android 6. None of BlackBerry's Android devices are NIAP certified and BB10 is outdated and no longer supported. Seems like they are happy to take the high margin, low hanging fruit BES clientèle and leave their hardware partners holding the bag in terms of security and certifications.

    As much as it pains me to say it, Samsung is a much better value for the money and more secure than BlackBerry Android. Their S7 series cited in the original Globe article supports Knox out of the box. It is NIAP certified, has better hardware than any BlackBerry on the market, is waterproof, and costs less than a KeyONE or DTEK. It's also running Nougat. My S7 Edge, despite being last year's model, runs the BlackBerry Suite smoother than the newest BlackBerry on the market and just received a July kernel / security patch!

    When it comes to mobile devices, BlackBerry just doesn't have its eye on the ball anymore. Even when it comes to security. Sad, but true.
    08-05-17 05:01 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    When it comes to mobile devices, BlackBerry just doesn't have its eye on the ball anymore. Even when it comes to security. Sad, but true.
    That's mostly true, because BB's smartphone division is, at this point, a handful of developers working on Android updates, and the phone division brings in very little revenue and really isn't especially important to BB anymore. They are focused on other areas where they can make a much greater return.
    08-05-17 05:50 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    As a long term BlackBerry users and a long term shareholder, I can't view the news that the government of Canada has decided to move in a different direction as anything but a negative.

    It is true that BlackBerry doesn't manufacture handsets anymore and they are in the enterprise and government software business. If the majority of the existing devices that are being used by government employees are BlackBerry devices and the replacement devices will be a majority of Samsung or Apple phones, that doesn't help BlackBerry or BlackBerry Mobile overall.
    I don't think that anyone at BB seriously believed that they'd get any significant government or enterprise sales from their licensed devices. That was more of a consumer play - a way to get some revenue with virtually no risk and fairly little effort.

    The hope is that by moving to Android and having a large, well known company such as TCL build the hardware for the BlackBerry Mobile brand, that it would allow BlackBerry to continue to receive a high margin royalty for devices being sold. This was the reason for the licensing agreement.

    I really hope that BlackBerry Mobile can earn a decent share of wallet from some enterprise and government clients around the world, BlackBerry as a company could really use the high margin revenue in order to maintain their hardware related software people.
    I seriously doubt BB is making more than maybe $10/device sold, and probably not that much from the Indian and Indonesian licensees. And, again, these phones are being targeted at consumers, not government/enterprise. They lack the security certifications, and given the low production volumes, it's very unlikely they'll even be submitted for review.

    From a shareholders view, BlackBerry doesn't require any hardware or licensing revenue to financially survive in its current state but it would certainly make the transition and the growth aspect a lot easier if they could bring in $50-60 million a quarter in licensing revenue with a 90% margin. The profits could help fuel further deals and development which in turn fuels additional revenue and profits.
    That's a pipe dream. TCL can't have produced more than 25-30,000 K1s to date. I don't have a sense for the other licensees, but even if we assumed that total production was 100k to date, and $10/per phone, that's only $1M gross to BB. Out of that, they have to pay for their Android developers. Frankly, there isn't going to be much left after expenses.

    BB's licensing deal requires a large volume of sales for them to make any money, and so far, that hasn't happened. I could see a possible future where devices make BB $10-12M per year in gross revenue, and maybe $4-5M net profit, production would have to increase by several orders of magnitude to reach the revenue levels you're imagining.
    08-05-17 06:00 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    Government buyers and other people who buy/manage large fleets of devices have to choose devices that will be readily available for the foreseeable future.

    The K1 is not readily available anywhere. It's extremely unlikely that it's available in quantity and consistency required for large fleet purchasers.

    Who knows if there will even be a K1 in 6 months? I would bet a lot of money there will be a Samsung galaxy and an iPhone. If it's a new version it will be an easy transition for users and IT staff alike.

    So of course the govt buyer in this case is choosing phones that make sense for a fleet buyer to choose.

    Also, there is a huge difference between a Canadian company that has contracted out production to a Chinese company versus a Chinese company who have licensed the brand and software from a Canadian company.

    It may seem like a subtle difference, but it's a world of difference for a govt buyer.

    The good news is this will have no effect on $BBRY in my opinion. This licensing revenue was unlikely to be a serious factor anyway.
    08-05-17 06:12 PM
  7. curves2000's Avatar
    I don't think that anyone at BB seriously believed that they'd get any significant government or enterprise sales from their licensed devices. That was more of a consumer play - a way to get some revenue with virtually no risk and fairly little effort.



    I seriously doubt BB is making more than maybe $10/device sold, and probably not that much from the Indian and Indonesian licensees. And, again, these phones are being targeted at consumers, not government/enterprise. They lack the security certifications, and given the low production volumes, it's very unlikely they'll even be submitted for review.



    That's a pipe dream. TCL can't have produced more than 25-30,000 K1s to date. I don't have a sense for the other licensees, but even if we assumed that total production was 100k to date, and $10/per phone, that's only $1M gross to BB. Out of that, they have to pay for their Android developers. Frankly, there isn't going to be much left after expenses.

    BB's licensing deal requires a large volume of sales for them to make any money, and so far, that hasn't happened. I could see a possible future where devices make BB $10-12M per year in gross revenue, and maybe $4-5M net profit, production would have to increase by several orders of magnitude to reach the revenue levels you're imagining.


    I might have overstated what the licensing revenue may be for BlackBerry corporation but in the most recent quarter I believe they attributed $7 million. This was the quarter where the K1 had just launched and there was some mention of other BlackBerry products being produced by the arrangements going forward. Clearly it's in the early days of its strategy and hopefully some new products that align closely with their core strategy materializes. $50 million a quarter may be a bit rich in 12 months time but perhaps $75 million a year could definitely be possible if they have enough iron in the fire product wise globally?

    See what happens I guess

    Posted via CB10
    08-05-17 06:29 PM
  8. dxvigne's Avatar
    BB was at first a business device for business people, in a sea of Palm pilot and Treo (remember those?).. portable CD players.. BB took over the business world..then someone thought of creating a mobile device with music, pictures, personal emails... well, here we are today
    08-05-17 06:38 PM
  9. HabsSuck's Avatar
    Once again the arrogance built into the BlackBerry brand bit them on the *ss. My son who serves in the US Navy had his BlackBerry turned off over a year ago, they now use a locked I phone with locked OS. BlackBerry might become extinct before my Passport......LOL.
    The ignorance on this thread is too much many of you need to be better informed about the reality concerning BlackBerry
    08-05-17 07:47 PM
  10. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    The ignorance on this thread is too much many of you need to be better informed about the reality concerning BlackBerry
    You statement is just>..........hysterical.

    Lol.
    08-05-17 08:02 PM
  11. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    You statement is just>..........hysterical.

    Lol.

    One other thought, as the business model gets smaller so will BlackBerry. The divisions that are doing ok we're bought not in house. One change and cash cows go poof. Sad but true
    08-05-17 08:06 PM
  12. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Old guys who prefer physical keyboards? Maybe the SSC spokesperson can wear a man bun to fit in with the millennial hipsters. No virtual keyboard surpasses the productivity of the BlackBerry physical keyboard.
    The BlackBerry VKB far surpasses PKB for me... and I've used both of em for years.

    But just like everything else BlackBerry in the last 5... no one even knows it exists.
    08-05-17 08:19 PM
  13. anon(4297019)'s Avatar
    Did somebody lose some serious money on BlackBerry Stock and they're back here to put the nail in the coffin?

    Liked my Curve, played a lot with the PlayBook, loved my Z10, my Passport was awesome and the KEYone is simply tremendous. By the way all of these devices are still in use to this day.

    Simple advice, if you don't appreciate nor want a Blackberry why are you here bitc**** about it?
    08-05-17 08:33 PM
  14. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Did somebody lose some serious money on BlackBerry Stock and they're back here to put the nail in the coffin?

    Liked my Curve, played a lot with the PlayBook, loved my Z10, my Passport was awesome and the KEYone is simply tremendous. By the way all of these devices are still in use to this day.

    Simple advice, if you don't appreciate nor want a Blackberry why are you here bitc**** about it?
    Sorry but while I totally get what you are saying...the irony is it's by far the most passionate BlackBerry fans that have the most to lament. If someone offers you a turd and charges you a premium for it...are you supposed to sit back and appreciate it just because it has a BlackBerry logo on it?
    anon(9742832) likes this.
    08-05-17 10:19 PM
  15. stlabrat's Avatar
    "Government buyers and other people who buy/manage large fleets of devices have to choose devices that will be readily available for the foreseeable future. "
    Not true. Gov device usually are custom made... like black phone... or police car... with base model plus performance enhanced customization... not sure about Canadian Gov. If it is in USA, once you signed contract to supply for Gov, there should be a clause that ensure you fulfill the contract. There are prior case some company put out low bid for Gov. program at below cost, just to get rid of competition. After wining the program, the company asking for more funding, but Gov agency refused... Company want to file bankruptcy (under share holder pressure), but court demand to fulfill the contract (at lost) for the Gov prior to file bankruptcy... due to national security interest... Yes, the company stablility is one of the concern prior to selection of a vendor, once it is selected (wining the contract), there is not much a company can do to get out of it... BB saved sept. 11 communication in US, however, current BB without hardware, server farm (the BB was working because the server was located in Canada during sept 11 attack), the advantage of using BB advantage is diminished (self inflicted damage).
    08-05-17 10:44 PM
  16. LuxuryTouringZone's Avatar
    I am Canadian and I dislike incompetent people. *Snicker*
    08-05-17 10:44 PM
  17. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    I am Canadian and I dislike incompetent people. *Snicker*
    Woof
    08-05-17 11:33 PM
  18. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    "Government buyers and other people who buy/manage large fleets of devices have to choose devices that will be readily available for the foreseeable future. "
    Not true. Gov device usually are custom made... like black phone... or police car... with base model plus performance enhanced customization... not sure about Canadian Gov. If it is in USA, once you signed contract to supply for Gov, there should be a clause that ensure you fulfill the contract. There are prior case some company put out low bid for Gov. program at below cost, just to get rid of competition. After wining the program, the company asking for more funding, but Gov agency refused... Company want to file bankruptcy (under share holder pressure), but court demand to fulfill the contract (at lost) for the Gov prior to file bankruptcy... due to national security interest... Yes, the company stablility is one of the concern prior to selection of a vendor, once it is selected (wining the contract), there is not much a company can do to get out of it... BB saved sept. 11 communication in US, however, current BB without hardware, server farm (the BB was working because the server was located in Canada during sept 11 attack), the advantage of using BB advantage is diminished (self inflicted damage).
    While phones are set up differently for government, BlackBerry dropped that ball years ago.

    This horse not only left the barn, but then got run over by the Apple truck.

    Lol
    08-05-17 11:35 PM
  19. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    BB was at first a business device for business people, in a sea of Palm pilot and Treo (remember those?).. portable CD players.. BB took over the business world..then someone thought of creating a mobile device with music, pictures, personal emails... well, here we are today
    Even back then, in Europe and the rest of the world, Nokia had Symbian Smartphones like the E61, E71 and E90 that sold in huge numbers. In actual fact there was a time BB licensed out to Symbian phones, I remember there being BB packages for Sony Ericsson P990, Nokia E61 and some others. There was also Windows Mobile Smartphones and PPCs.

    BB had a good lock on business and gov. in North America, but outside of that, you had Nokia and Microsoft competing in the rest of the world, up until around 2009 where Android and iOS began to eat up consumer share from Nokia and Windows, and BB ate up the business/enterprise share, but a few years later BYOD became a thing while BB couldn't keep up.

    The whole thing of a mobile that plays music, takes pics, does personal email etc... Became a thing in the early 2000s with smartphones like Nokia 3650 and 6600 in 2003.
    scufutz likes this.
    08-06-17 03:23 AM
  20. HabsSuck's Avatar
    You statement is just>..........hysterical.

    Lol.
    Your typing is hysterical
    08-06-17 07:30 AM
  21. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    your typing is hysterical
    shocking !
    08-06-17 07:34 AM
  22. terminatorx's Avatar
    Seeking Alpha?
    That's a fair answer. The writer of the linked to article (KIA Research) is a good example with some biased assumptions.
    08-06-17 01:07 PM
  23. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    That's mostly true, because BB's smartphone division is, at this point, a handful of developers working on Android updates, and the phone division brings in very little revenue and really isn't especially important to BB anymore. They are focused on other areas where they can make a much greater return.
    Blackberry Limited certainly has ignored a highly profitable service like a full/selective backup/recovery service with an app on the smartphone and remote secure encrypted storage by BlackBerry Limited in Canada. The encryption keys only accessible to the subscriber and stored locally with option to copy them to the microSD card.
    08-06-17 08:20 PM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Blackberry Limited certainly has ignored a highly profitable service like a full/selective backup/recovery service with an app on the smartphone and remote secure encrypted storage by BlackBerry Limited in Canada. The encryption keys only accessible to the subscriber and stored locally with option to copy them to the microSD card.
    Highly profitable? I strongly doubt it. Such a service would have to work on other-than-BB phones in order for there to be anything remotely close enough to a userbase that would make such a service profitable - and since you can't even do such backups on Android (without root, which you don't have on a BB phone), where would those users come from?
    cwalt2166 likes this.
    08-06-17 11:20 PM
  25. Kersus's Avatar
    It would just be nice to see BB even try to support it's home nation, especially after Chen cries for more support "back home in Canada" where we still can't get an unlocked KeyONE.

    Hard to support BB if the supply isn't there.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    08-12-17 02:56 PM
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