08-20-17 09:50 PM
40 12
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  1. Adam Frix's Avatar
    Of course. I'm just talking about the pitfalls of straight up using fingerprint only.
    I'm not angry; I'm simply responding to this statement, which factually can never be true. One can never use fingerprint only, as fingerprint sits on top of a more secure locking mechanism.

    People may read what you wrote and assume that you can, quite literally, use fingerprint only ("hey, it's Android, it's completely foreign to me, he said you can use fingerprint only!"). My posts are for clarification of that particular point.

    No, one cannot use "fingerprint only" to secure the phone.

    Yes, it's true that the phone can be in a state of "it will unlock with nothing more than fingerprint". Some would consider that state to be "unlocked"; so be it. I don't.

    I would hope that concerned users would understand the complexities involved and know the state of their phones.

    Others are simply looking to "lock their cars" and don't worry about someone taking extreme measures against them.
    05-15-17 08:12 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Yes, it's true that the phone can be in a state of "it will unlock with nothing more than fingerprint". Some would consider that state to be "unlocked"; so be it. I don't.
    Not just "can be" - it will ALWAYS remain in that state unless you turn the phone off or take specific action to lock it.
    05-15-17 08:20 PM
  3. Adam Frix's Avatar
    Not just "can be" - it will ALWAYS remain in that state unless you turn the phone off or take specific action to lock it.
    Nonono, you misunderstand me. If fingerprint is set up, any random phone CAN be in a state of non-biometric lock because, by definition, fingerprint setup requires that underlying non-biometric lock.

    But that same random phone can also be in a state of "it will unlock with nothing more than fingerprint".

    You don't know until and unless you try the fingerprint method with a matching fingerprint.

    That all being said, I also dispute that it will always remain in that state unless you take a specific action. SOMETHING on my phone is periodically forcing the administrative lock; I haven't identified it yet. But occasionally, I will find that my fingerprint will not unlock the phone, and that I must enter the PIN.

    Of course, you COULD try to argue that "it's software you installed, so therefore you took specific action to lock it". Well, I didn't take any specific action beyond installing software. It's unknowingly doing something that I never specifically asked for. That whatever it's doing is beneficial to me, is not relevant to the discussion at hand. I never specifically asked for it to do that task, and that's that.
    05-15-17 08:33 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    That all being said, I also dispute that it will always remain in that state unless you take a specific action.
    All of my Android devices behave the way I described.
    05-15-17 08:40 PM
  5. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    I'm still on BB10 so I obviously don't have a fingerprint scanner. Though, I'm definitely considering a KEYone so I'd still like to weigh in on the subject...

    To me, the fingerprint lock is nothing more than convenience. It will replace my "swipe to unlock" gesture and nothing more. At this always connected day and age, I'm far more cautious of people accessing my information/data from unknown places. They could hack my WiFi router and get into every device on my network. I could have a corrupt guy working for my ISP, for all I know. They don't need to know the password to my device or steal my fingerprint somehow to hack in and steal sensitive information. BlackBerry seems to live up to their reputation of security and privacy but I, personally, don't see the fingerprint scanner as adding much to it and, in that regard, it's a bit of a gimmick. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one. But it would only serve to add to how 'cool' I feel - not change how 'safe' from cyber-security threats.

    Another note to ponder, back to the "physical" side of security... I have much of my data stored on a microSD card. It's not encrypted or password protected and can be removed from my device with something as simple as a paperclip. If my device grows legs, I'm gonna feel pretty ****ty whether I had a fingerprint, password, or whatever other "safety precautions" because there would still be a lot of data that would be vulnerable no matter what.

    There is a big difference between 'feeling secure' and 'being secure'. Having a BlackBerry adds to one while a fingerprint scanner (on any device) adds more to the other.
    05-15-17 08:54 PM
  6. Adam Frix's Avatar
    All of my Android devices behave the way I described.
    And as I said, mine do not. I will suddenly find them administratively locked for some reason I've yet to discover.

    I strongly suspect I'm not alone.

    I repeat: any random phone you may pick up may or may not be administratively locked. If it's not, and it's protected by fingerprint, you still won't get in unless you're law enforcement or a serious criminal.

    So fingerprint lock is very, very useful. Incredibly so. It's ridiculous not to use it.
    05-15-17 08:54 PM
  7. ltoncb's Avatar
    And as I said, mine do not. I will suddenly find them administratively locked for some reason I've yet to discover.

    I strongly suspect I'm not alone.
    ...
    I have an android phone with a fingerprint sensor. If I haven't entered a PIN in 24-48 hours I may need a PIN after a very long idle period. Actually, that probably is a feature. If people go tooooooo long without using the PIN, then some will forget. At that point a secured phone is hosed.

    Similarly even if someone was using a "fake fingerprint" at some point you'd want additional confirmation. It would be a "is that really you" double check by using a second factor.
    05-15-17 10:22 PM
  8. Adam Frix's Avatar
    That makes sense, and may be what's happening with my phone.
    05-15-17 10:41 PM
  9. FF22's Avatar
    Of course it's ridiculous, but there are countless stories of people being forced to give up their fingerprints to cops, the DOJ, border agencies, and other groups. Many are simply fishing expeditions.

    People do complain about college "buddies", parents, spouses, and kids getting into the phone at night while the user is asleep.

    DTEK60 / Z30
    I'm more concerned about someone submerging my finger into cold water! (g)
    Dan Millen likes this.
    05-16-17 12:01 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    I'm more concerned about someone submerging my finger into cold water! (g)
    There are far worse places.
    05-16-17 12:03 AM
  11. FF22's Avatar
    You can still lock the device using 'K' and it'll ask you for PIN every time.
    I think fingerprint lock is just a little better than the swipe to unlock the device option.
    Kind of a side-track:

    My "k" key is unassigned and just now when I tried assigning it to LOCK, BB Launcher crashed, well, in its lingo "BB Launcher has stopped" Did a 32 second reboot and still crashing. Ideas?
    05-16-17 12:19 AM
  12. Dan Millen's Avatar
    There are many items on media about this. Why doesn't BlackBerry address this simply with time dependent two finger authentication with short delay between scans? NYU engineers even produced generic finger print generators to successfully enter devices. Also, why not make levels of unlocking si data may be unopened by simple print this use for coffee purchase...?

    Posted via CB10
    That's quite a reach. Is James Bond gonna sneak into your home in the middle of the night, lift a fingerprint from you so he can steal your phone?
    05-16-17 12:23 AM
  13. anon(9638631)'s Avatar
    Discussion here has been around using the K1 convenience key to administratively lock the phone quickly, to force entry of a PIN code.
    This is what I do to keep the fuzz out. My phone is either in my pocket or within a foot or two of me at all times, just the nature of the beast. A quick press of the convenience key admin locks the device forcing the password which in my case, is very complex all the while keeping the biometrics for the convenience factor.

    Stay outta my stuff fuzz.
    08-20-17 05:56 PM
  14. anon(10252394)'s Avatar
    but the banking apps accept it, two finger sequence could be safer, no?
    08-20-17 06:32 PM
  15. chetmanley's Avatar
    The keyone fingerprint sensor was able to detect my print through a nitrile glove I was wearing. Sounds like it might be a Capacitive type fingerprint scanner?
    08-20-17 09:50 PM
40 12

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