[jng0705]

Any data out there?

[conite]

I don't think even BlackBerry knows.

[Niels B]

The market for a pkb device that can handle all the popular apps is bigger than most of us here at CB think.

[jng0705]

Wondered whether anyone knew the Classic sales which could give a broad indicator - accepting the market will have moved on with further people drifting away to virtuals.

[jng0705]

I agree. I know a couple of people that have admired my Classic and thought BB didn't exist any more but would love a pkb.

[London_Call_Me]

In 2015 1.1 billion Android sales, so even if 1% went with a PKB, that would be 10 Million in sales. And without any competition in that space, BlackBerry, could conceivably take a portion of that (given they don't sell in every country) .

Posted via CB10

[Matty]

Any data out there?

BlackBerry is targeting the whole qwerty market, no matter how big or small. Revenue is revenue. Hopefully more than 400k purchase. Otherwise the device won't be worth it.

Posted Via BlackBerry Noble OS 10.3.3

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Any data out there?

If there was data showing a PKB market... someone would be still building PKB phones.

[London_Call_Me]

If there was data showing a PKB market... someone would be still building PKB phones.

What is the size of whole market for Android, and the make a percent swag against screen size, power users, entry level, and yes PKB.

My swag on PKB in an Android environment is 5%, or 50MM Per Annum.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

If there was data showing a PKB market... someone would be still building PKB phones.

But there's no need for it. The majority of people are completely satisfied with going along with whatever the trend is regardless of any personal feelings on it. All-touch phones are easier to manufacture, why even bother to care if there is a market for pkb devices at all?

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Niels B]

The majority of people are completely satisfied with going along with whatever the trend is regardless of any personal feelings on it.

I am afraid you are very right.... :-(

[BB-JAM215]

I think a bigger issue for BlackBerry, at least in North American is the unlocked phone market. The majority of phones sold her are sold through carrier contracts. Today, there are no carriers in the US selling either the DTEK50 or DTEK60. In Canada, no carriers are offering the DTEK60 and there are no stores you can walk into and see a DTEK60 on display.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

But there's no need for it. The majority of people are completely satisfied with going along with whatever the trend is regardless of any personal feelings on it. All-touch phones are easier to manufacture, why even bother to care if there is a market for pkb devices at all?

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

You act as if there has never been PKB Android phones before...

Yes, it is cheaper to build an all slab.
Yes, there are fewer moving parts... thus generally the phones have fewer problems.
Yes, Samsung's, Motorola's and the other PKB phones that were one the market six or seven years ago... weren't BlackBerry keyboards.

But if you think that in this day of cut throat Android sales that no OEM is looking for some "advantage" to help them stand out... your only deceiving yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung wasn't looking very hard at the sales of their clip on keyboards to see just how much interest there was.

That said... if BlackBerry can sell 500K units, that might be great for BlackBerry. But that doesn't really mean that there is much of a market for PKBs left.

[slagman5]

You act as if there has never been PKB Android phones before...

Yes, it is cheaper to build an all slab.
Yes, there are fewer moving parts... thus generally the phones have fewer problems.
Yes, Samsung's, Motorola's and the other PKB phones that were one the market six or seven years ago... weren't BlackBerry keyboards.

But if you think that in this day of cut throat Android sales that no OEM is looking for some "advantage" to help them stand out... your only deceiving yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung wasn't looking very hard at the sales of their clip on keyboards to see just how much interest there was.

That said... if BlackBerry can sell 500K units, that might be great for BlackBerry. But that doesn't really mean that there is much of a market for PKBs left.

In the beginning they had to make them because they wanted to move people away from BB. But after the point where companies like Samsung has a grasp on the public like Apple, where they basically dictate what the demand is instead of the other way around, of course they want to stick with what has a greater profit margin. Even if they can get some people to buy a pkb device, the costs of r&d, manufacture, and warranty repair of defective units would not be made up by the sales they could get. If they increase the costs of the device then that factor alone would scare away sales. Basically, there's no reason for them to get into it if they know some fancy commercials and the typical bigger screen and random useless gimmicky doo-dads would get some sales, might as well go that route...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[PantherBlitz]

I would say everyone with a legacy pkb device is the target audience. People clutching onto their BB7 devices should buy one regardless if they are ready for it. Sooner or later they will be moving to Android and its either the Mercury or a generic plastic slab.

[Troy Tiscareno]

What is the size of whole market for Android, and the make a percent swag against screen size, power users, entry level, and yes PKB.

My swag on PKB in an Android environment is 5%, or 50MM Per Annum.

Except that actual sales of PKB Android phones (including but not limited to BB Priv) is likely less than 1M per year, or under 1%. BB isn't the only manufacturer of PKB phones (Samsung makes a couple, and I believe LG makes one), but it's a tiny and still-shrinking niche. Only 8 years ago, PKB smartphones were 95% of the market. That means a sizable percentage of current smartphone users have had experience with PKB smartphones, and yet the vast majority are still choosing all-touch models today.

[slagman5]

Except that actual sales of PKB Android phones (including but not limited to BB Priv) is likely less than 1M per year, or under 1%. BB isn't the only manufacturer of PKB phones (Samsung makes a couple, and I believe LG makes one), but it's a tiny and still-shrinking niche. Only 8 years ago, PKB smartphones were 95% of the market. That means a sizable percentage of current smartphone users have had experience with PKB smartphones, and yet the vast majority are still choosing all-touch models today.

None of them are pkb that fills all of the requirements... other than the Priv, BB pkb devices ran BB10 that didn't have any apps and isn't considered "cool" like Android or iOS. Then the Priv required that you take out a second mortgage on your house. And all of the pkb devices from Samsung and LG are ultra low-end phones, basically they are like a smidgen above being like one of those texting phones... We won't really know what the market is for a pkb device until we have one that's not too expensive, not terrible in specs, and runs latest android. If something like that comes out and it still bombs, well, no matter what BB doesn't advertise, but I guess if it doesn't do better, then it says something.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[aramasyn]

Here in Indonesia there was million of pkb users in Bold era. BB should come up with at leats one Indonesia only Pkb with their recently new joint business with the local.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Here in Indonesia there was million of pkb users in Bold era. BB should come up with at leats one Indonesia only Pkb with their recently new joint business with the local.

I would not be surprised if the investment group that is using the BlackBerry name in Indonesia now, doesn't release a PKB phone for that market. But while Indonesians are still using BlackBerry devices.... was it the keyboard, or BIS that they wanted?

How many of them bought brand new Bolds all those years ago? And how many of them bought used low cost phones? What is the price point that would sell in that market (sure wasn't the $250 Z3).

[Bbnivende]

I would not be surprised if the investment group that is using the BlackBerry name in Indonesia now, doesn't release a PKB phone for that market. But while Indonesians are still using BlackBerry devices.... was it the keyboard, or BIS that they wanted?

How many of them bought brand new Bolds all those years ago? And how many of them bought used low cost phones? What is the price point that would sell in that market (sure wasn't the $250 Z3).

Now it is BBM that still attracts. They might make a retro phone for the Indonesia market.

I think if a first tier manufacturer teamed up with Blackberry and sold their phone under Samsung or LG etc they could rebuild the PKB back into something. I also think that BlackBerry building a PKB case for the Galaxy 7 has merit.

Posted via CB10

[ohaiguise]

I don't think even BlackBerry knows.

They hushed up BBOS sales and then BB10 sales to hide their 'embarrassment', clearly there is a demand for hundreds of thousands of such handsets a quarter which they are not interested in. A competent company might be able to sell more. I have been told nobody will because it can't be made profitable.

It's difficult to imagine how selling hundreds of thousands of units cannot produce any return but if that's how it is, that's how it is.

[ohaiguise]

Except that actual sales of PKB Android phones (including but not limited to BB Priv) is likely less than 1M per year, or under 1%. BB isn't the only manufacturer of PKB phones (Samsung makes a couple, and I believe LG makes one), but it's a tiny and still-shrinking niche. Only 8 years ago, PKB smartphones were 95% of the market. That means a sizable percentage of current smartphone users have had experience with PKB smartphones, and yet the vast majority are still choosing all-touch models today.

Those competitor phones you talk about, where are they - I haven't seen Samsung or anyone else release a proper PKB device for years.

I remember seeing a Gingerbread PKB device from 2012 or something.

[conite]

It's difficult to imagine how selling hundreds of thousands of units cannot produce any return but if that's how it is, that's how it is.

Full blown OS development plus all that requires (distribution, support infrastructure, physical plant) would require a heck of a lot more than sales of a few hundred thousand a quarter.

The cost to keep things up to date with respect to the competition requires investments of hundreds of millions a year.

[ohaiguise]

An updated version of something like this would be acceptable

Motorola DROID PRO XT610 pictures, official photos

[Bbnivende]

An updated version of something like this would be acceptable

Motorola DROID PRO XT610 pictures, official photos

That phone predates the 9900 and is not even as good. There is nothing about that phone that needs an update. At least update the Classic or 9900 with a Android compatible screen etc. etc.