09-29-18 03:04 PM
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  1. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    It's on the Snapdragon 625 spec sheet:
    - 24bit/192kHz
    - Dolby 5.1 support

    And that's just about it...
    Thanks! So we know the 625 supports high definition audio. I guess the question then is how/if it has been implemented.
    10-31-17 10:29 AM
  2. karloil's Avatar
    Thanks! So we know the 625 supports high definition audio. I guess the question then is how/if it has been implemented.
    I say not bit perfect. I say this because when i connect my Mojo, i can still adjust the volume on the phone - when in fact (if implemented correctly) i shouldn't be able to.
    10-31-17 10:48 AM
  3. celticmagick's Avatar
    Does anyone know what the actual specification is for audio on the KEYone? Can't seem to find that listed anywhere (audio bit rate, for starters...)
    From GSMArena

    Loudspeaker
    Voice 62dB / Noise 66dB / Ring 67dB
    Audio quality
    Noise -92.2dB / Crosstalk -96.4dB

    I also found this comparison there

    Audio Quality of the KeyOne?-audio-test.jpg
    KNReddy likes this.
    10-31-17 11:18 AM
  4. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I say not bit perfect. I say this because when i connect my Mojo, i can still adjust the volume on the phone - when in fact (if implemented correctly) i shouldn't be able to.
    Yes, it seems if people's anecdotal evidence is correct, they may not have implemented the full capabilities of the SoC. Still, it would be nice to know what the 'officially supported' audio specs are to eliminate the guessing game and help us get the most from our devices. The fact it doesn't seem to be mentioned at all isn't very encouraging mind you...
    10-31-17 11:19 AM
  5. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    From GSMArena

    Loudspeaker
    Voice 62dB / Noise 66dB / Ring 67dB
    Audio quality
    Noise -92.2dB / Crosstalk -96.4dB

    I also found this comparison there

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	audio test.jpg 
Views:	119 
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ID:	431002
    Thanks...so these numbers would appear to indicate it compares quite well with other high end devices out there, at least when it comes to the audio quality. Is that correct?
    10-31-17 11:23 AM
  6. karloil's Avatar
    Yes, it seems if people's anecdotal evidence is correct, they may not have implemented the full capabilities of the SoC. Still, it would be nice to know what the 'officially supported' audio specs are to eliminate the guessing game and help us get the most from our devices. The fact it doesn't seem to be mentioned at all isn't very encouraging mind you...
    I doubt that its on their priority. I'm more thankful that they spent time to make the device as secure as it is versus spending time to create lines of codes for a phone that wasn't really designed for 'audiophiles'. But still, i see your point.

    For me, it doesn't bother me much as i have a few DAPs. So if i want better SQ, i'll used them instead.
    10-31-17 11:26 AM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I doubt that its on their priority. I'm more thankful that they spent time to make the device as secure as it is versus spending time to create lines of codes for a phone that wasn't really designed for 'audiophiles'. But still, i see your point.

    For me, it doesn't bother me much as i have a few DAPs. So if i want better SQ, i'll used them instead.
    It's not a coding issue. What determines sound quality is the following:

    -- quality of the Digital/Analog conversion chip (DAC)
    -- quality of audio amplifier
    -- quality of all wires and connections in the analog path, including the headphone jack
    -- Minimizing radio frequency (RF) interference within the device (This is very complex and affects the entire design.)
    -- Ensuring consistent current and clock timing for the entire device

    All of these optimizations require the talent of audio engineers in order to balance the tradeoffs intelligently, and virtually no mobile phone makers do a good job of it, though Sony comes closest, as they have that talent in house. BlackBerry used to be the best, and by a wide margin, but that ended with the Passport.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-31-17 12:26 PM
  8. karloil's Avatar
    It's not a coding issue. What determines sound quality is the following:

    -- quality of the Digital/Analog conversion chip (DAC)
    -- quality of audio amplifier
    -- quality of all wires and connections in the analog path, including the headphone jack
    -- Minimizing radio frequency (RF) interference within the device (This is very complex and affects the entire design.)
    -- Ensuring consistent current and clock timing for the entire device

    All of these optimizations require the talent of audio engineers in order to balance the tradeoffs intelligently, and virtually no mobile phone makers do a good job of it, though Sony comes closest, as they have that talent in house. BlackBerry used to be the best, and by a wide margin, but that ended with the Passport.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I agree with your pointers, but coding in the OS also has an impact in SQ. I have several DAPs and an OS update does change the SQ.

    The reason why i focused on the SW side is that BB was never known to be an 'audiophile' grade phone. So it's a lot better for them to spend the time and effort on making sure their OS is as secure as it can get versus to trying to make it sound better.
    10-31-17 12:39 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I agree with your pointers, but coding in the OS also has an impact in SQ. I have several DAPs and an OS update does change the SQ.

    The reason why i focused on the SW side is that BB was never known to be an 'audiophile' grade phone. So it's a lot better for them to spend the time and effort on making sure their OS is as secure as it can get versus to trying to make it sound better.
    I agree with you that it's not strategic for them to focus on audio quality in 2017. But it used to be something they were very good at. Not "audiophile" quality, but very good.

    I haven't seen any smart phones from any manufacturers, other than Sony, in the past 3 years that are as good as the Passport was.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-31-17 12:50 PM
  10. Beakman's Avatar
    Thanks...so these numbers would appear to indicate it compares quite well with other high end devices out there, at least when it comes to the audio quality. Is that correct?
    10-31-17 07:03 PM
  11. Beakman's Avatar
    Sorry about the bodged posting
    The Keyone is average within the group tested above until headphones are plugged in, then it becomes one of the worst listed there.
    10-31-17 07:06 PM
  12. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Sorry about the bodged posting
    The Keyone is average within the group tested above until headphones are plugged in, then it becomes one of the worst listed there.
    Interesting...assuming the test data is accurate, and aside from a few obvious blips...most of the devices (including the K1) seem to fall within line of each other, for the most part...even down to a few hundredths or thousandths of a decimal place. Are these minuscule differences even perceptible to the human ear?

    Might as well just go by what just plain sounds better. If there is a significant difference as you say...maybe it's just me, but I can't see how anyone could make a decision about SQ based on numbers like these?
    10-31-17 09:00 PM
  13. ajwan's Avatar
    The upcoming Keytwo with the SD660 might be something to look forward to:

    Audio

    Audio Technology

    Qualcomm® aptX™ codec technology

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio technology

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio codec playback support

    Dynamic range: 130dB

    THD+N: -109dB

    PCM up to 192kHz/24bit

    Dual oscillator support (44.1kHz/48kHz)

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ power consumption

    Playback: 26mW for high performance mode, 6.6mW for low power mode

    Low power voice activation: 0.65mA

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio codec recording support

    Dynamic range: 109dB

    THD+N: -103dB

    Sampling: Up to 192kHz/24bit

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ speaker amplifier output power

    Up to 4W output power

    Speaker Protection

    Qualcomm® aptX™ playback support

    aptX Classic

    aptX HD

    https://www.qualcomm.com/products/sn...obile-platform
    10-31-17 09:24 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Qualcomm is the main reason that audio quality is so poor in the current crop of mobile phones. I am very skeptical that any Qualcomm platform that doesn't employ chips from Cirrus or another dedicated audio processing company will sound any better.

    The reason that BlackBerry used to be so good is that they employed the Wolfson DACs. When BlackBerry 10 hardware failed to sell, Wolfson was sold to Cirrus Logic.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    11-01-17 09:04 AM
  15. ajwan's Avatar
    Some more information on the audio capabilities of the snapdragon 660 to be used on the Keyone successor:

    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/20...rd-audiophiles

    The upcoming Keytwo with the SD660 might be something to look forward to:

    Audio

    Audio Technology

    Qualcomm® aptX™ codec technology

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio technology

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio codec playback support

    Dynamic range: 130dB

    THD+N: -109dB

    PCM up to 192kHz/24bit

    Dual oscillator support (44.1kHz/48kHz)

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ power consumption

    Playback: 26mW for high performance mode, 6.6mW for low power mode

    Low power voice activation: 0.65mA

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio codec recording support

    Dynamic range: 109dB

    THD+N: -103dB

    Sampling: Up to 192kHz/24bit

    Qualcomm Aqstic™ speaker amplifier output power

    Up to 4W output power

    Speaker Protection

    Qualcomm® aptX™ playback support

    aptX Classic

    aptX HD

    https://www.qualcomm.com/products/sn...obile-platform
    11-01-17 01:26 PM
  16. Baritone Astoria's Avatar
    Preliminary listening notes with a variety of recordings and headphones (No headphone amps or external DACs):

    The KEYone is significantly less musical than either the Z10 or the Passport. In particular, the lower midrange, where most of the warmth comes from in acoustic music is dry and clipped.

    Amplification has never been a strong point for BlackBerry 10 or Android phones. The Passport is the best in this area, with the Z10 second and the KEYone just a bit quieter than the Z10.

    Overall, I'd give the Passport a solid B+ on its DAC performance, the Z10 a B-, and the KEYone a C to C-. By comparison, a computer with external DAC /amplifer is capable of A- quality, and an iPhone offers C+ quality to my ears. (I was trained as an orchestral musician and have played live music as a hobby for 30 years, and I've listened to almost every piece of high-end audio equipment under good conditions.)

    But don't take my word for it, listen for yourself. Just make sure to normalize the volume between devices before serious listening.

    I may post more notes later, but the KEYone is worse than the iPhone, which is saying something because the iPhone is, ironically, a lousy device for listening to music. The one saving grace of the iPhone is that it's loud, while the KEYone is mediocre in both sound quality and quantity.

    TCL seems to have grabbed the cheapest DAC they could find for the KEYone. Quality audio is one part of the BlackBerry legacy they simply ignored.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Many thanks for this info!

    By the way, how would you rate the sound quality on a Galaxy S7?
    11-04-17 09:25 AM
  17. andy957's Avatar
    You picked the two BlackBerry devices with the best sound quality -PlayBook and Passport- for your comparison. Unfortunately, and this is in my experience only, no phones compare to the sound quality of those two. But YMMV.
    11-04-17 11:12 AM
  18. anon(870071)'s Avatar
    Hey! I'm also into personal audio! 👌

    When i'm out and about, i just use the K1 straight with my IEMs. When i'm home, i pair it with a Mojo - big improvement in SQ.
    Agreed!! I think the listening device's output is also equally important! I use QJAYS iem's and the sound is amazing!
    11-04-17 11:14 AM
  19. karloil's Avatar
    Agreed!! I think the listening device's output is also equally important! I use QJAYS iem's and the sound is amazing!
    Lately i'm being too lazy to use DAPs, the K1 would do for now - it's 'ok' or to be more precise - acceptable as an audio source.
    11-04-17 11:21 AM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You picked the two BlackBerry devices with the best sound quality -PlayBook and Passport- for your comparison. Unfortunately, and this is in my experience only, no phones compare to the sound quality of those two. But YMMV.
    Actually, the Z10 with the Wolfson DAC is also very, very good. I assume the Q10 is the same.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    11-04-17 11:50 AM
  21. andy957's Avatar
    Actually, the Z10 with the Wolfson DAC is also very, very good. I assume the Q10 is the same.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Yes. I think those of us who have been BlackBerry users over the years, particularly in the BBOS(7) years were spoiled with call and speakerphone quality in general.

    Always amazes me when I read or watch a review of (any) phone nowadays, all that’s discussed is camera and multimedia quality. Very rarely does someone comment on the call quality. Aren’t these phones?
    Baritone Astoria and bqik like this.
    11-04-17 11:53 AM
  22. andy957's Avatar
    Yes. I think those of us who have been BlackBerry users over the years, particularly in the BBOS(7) years were spoiled with call and speakerphone quality in general.

    Always amazes me when I read or watch a review of (any) phone nowadays, all that’s discussed is camera and multimedia features and quality. Very rarely does someone comment on the call quality. Aren’t these phones?
    11-04-17 11:56 AM
  23. andy957's Avatar
    Oops mods please remove the duplicate post of mine. thanks.
    11-04-17 11:57 AM
  24. jcrutchvt2010's Avatar
    turn on the built-in equalizer.. it's turned OFF by default.. my KEYone sounds way better than my Galaxy S8 after turning it on
    Thank you for this tip. It made a HUGE difference.
    FF22 likes this.
    11-06-17 07:53 AM
  25. anon(870071)'s Avatar
    Thank you for this tip. It made a HUGE difference.
    That's super cool I had no idea that it improved the overall sound of the device as well!
    11-06-17 11:16 AM
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