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  1. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    The rise of the $400 smartphone?you want how much for a flagship? | Ars Technica

    Here's an interesting read. It appears the market the Hamburg/Rome/Vienna is getting into is about to get very crowded.
    04-20-16 09:43 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Arguably already crowded if you live in one of those emerging markets.
    04-20-16 10:25 PM
  3. ChainPunch's Avatar
    It seems people want the most bang for their buck and in some cases they want flagship devices at mid range phone prices. It seems to me people often forget the people aspect of the hardware business, as if a company is selling a "flagship" phone at mid range prices, then how much are the people building the phone actually making.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Fret Madden; 04-27-16 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Removed hot button issue
    04-21-16 12:56 AM
  4. crucial bbq's Avatar
    Eh, great for "emerging" markets, China, and India. Not sure about in other countries but here in the U.S. we still prefer to buy $700 iPhones and Samsung GSXs. For those looking for "cheap", they just wait a year until the price of this year's flagships are halved. Look it up; in the U.S. for any given year the most popular devices are last year's models. Other than that, it is the cheaper HTCs, Samsungs, and LGs. Huawei was a joke five years ago and outside of their Nexus device, still kindof is. ZTE and Kyocera, too.

    Look at OnePlus, that name sounds American. Nextbit could do well here because "nextbit" sounds like a hip Silicon Valley start-up. Huawei and Xioami could build the most awesome devices ever, but would never sell well enough in the U.S. because of their names alone.

    If BlackBerry wants to sell $700 phones, the U.S. is likely the best market to do so in. That of course would require some serious advertising in the ways most Americans respond to best; TV ads, radio ads, and print ads. Yeah, it's 2016 and all, but most Americans ignore online ads or find them intrusive and annoying.

    As for these two new mid-rangers, as I have posted in another thread I have concerns over what BlackBerry considers to be mid-range.
    04-21-16 08:51 AM
  5. early2bed's Avatar
    BlackBerry's problem is that they are skating to where the puck is, not where it's going to be. John Chen, not being a hardware guy, looks at the market and thinks he can put together a mid-range smartphones for the mid-range market. By then time he gets them launched, though, the current flagship phones will be priced in the mid-range and his mid-range phone will be low-end.

    Just about any major technology company can contract with an OEM to design and manufacture a smartphone using existing components. IT doesn't take a smartphone company to do that. Amazon can do it. Facebook can do it. Lenovo can do it. Even WhatsApp or SnapChat could probably do it - with a bigger budget. That's doesn't mean you deserve to be in the smartphone business.

    The companies that deserve to be in the smartphone business are the ones that add differentiating features to either their hardware or their ecosystem or both. Yes - that means things like fingerprint scanning or NFC payments, 3D Touch, premium camera, home automation controls, your banks mobile app, or cloud whatever. Even if only 10% of your users make good use of it, once you have about ten of those features then you have the one thing that everybody must have.
    04-21-16 08:59 AM
  6. slagman5's Avatar
    BlackBerry's problem is that they are skating to where the puck is, not where it's going to be. John Chen, not being a hardware guy, looks at the market and thinks he can put together a mid-range smartphones for the mid-range market. By then time he gets them launched, though, the current flagship phones will be priced in the mid-range and his mid-range phone will be low-end.

    Just about any major technology company can contract with an OEM to design and manufacture a smartphone using existing components. IT doesn't take a smartphone company to do that. Amazon can do it. Facebook can do it. Lenovo can do it. Even WhatsApp or SnapChat could probably do it - with a bigger budget. That's doesn't mean you deserve to be in the smartphone business.

    The companies that deserve to be in the smartphone business are the ones that add differentiating features to either their hardware or their ecosystem or both. Yes - that means things like fingerprint scanning or NFC payments, 3D Touch, premium camera, home automation controls, your banks mobile app, or cloud whatever. Even if only 10% of your users make good use of it, once you have about ten of those features then you have the one thing that everybody must have.
    None of those features you just named are new at all, well except Apple's touch thing I think is what you meant by 3D touch. It's not necessarily new but it's a new way of using it. But other than that, everything else you named have been around for a decade or longer... If the only companies putting out "new" things deserve to be in the smartphone business, at this moment in time none of them do. They just continuously release the same thing but with bigger screens, faster processors, and the random gimmicky feature that's just some old tech slapped into the phone... There hasn't been any real innovations for many years, 5 years or more. The companies are way too comfortable where they are with no real competition for Apple and Google to encourage innovation.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    CDM76 likes this.
    04-21-16 09:44 AM
  7. early2bed's Avatar
    There hasn't been any real innovations for many years, 5 years or more. The companies are way too comfortable where they are with no real competition for Apple and Google to encourage innovation.
    Well, then BlackBerry shouldn't have any problem selling mid-range Android phones at mid-range prices. They should be a big hit around here, too, since everyone here loves BlackBerry and there is no real innovation anywhere else.

    I think that's what John Chen must have thought when he first took the job. He made fun of iPhone users as "wall huggers" and figured that he could sell at least 10 million handsets per year. He ended up having to lay off pretty much his entire BB10 team and is hoping to sell 2 million units per year and break even using the Google.
    04-21-16 09:48 AM
  8. kevwill6115's Avatar
    Well, then BlackBerry shouldn't have any problem selling mid-range Android phones at mid-range prices. They should be a big hit around here, too, since everyone here loves BlackBerry and there is no real innovation anywhere else.
    Yup. They should sale millions lol.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 09:50 AM
  9. slagman5's Avatar
    Well, then BlackBerry shouldn't have any problem selling mid-range Android phones at mid-range prices. They should be a big hit around here, too, since everyone here loves BlackBerry and there is no real innovation anywhere else.

    I think that's what John Chen must have thought when he first took the job. He made fun of iPhone users as "wall huggers" and figured that he could sell at least 10 million handsets per year. He ended up having to lay off pretty much his entire BB10 team and is hoping to sell 2 million units per year and break even using the Google.
    Never said I disagreed about BB being behind, but it's only in terms of specs, their brand's stigma, and probably bigger price tag than equivalent phones, not about "new innovative features." I don't know why everyone can only think in absolutes, just because I don't agree with one specific part of your statement I must be disagreeing with all of it...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    04-21-16 03:10 PM
  10. BBd00d's Avatar
    You know, thinking about this for days now, while I still think it's a great idea for BlackBerry to go midrange, BlackBerry's focus should be on how to sell their phones. Anyone here see the video on a guy named Simon Sinek? He talked at a TED conference, excellent video, I'll post a link later. One of his talking points was about Apple vs others on their respective markets, and their approach. Apple, as we all know, is very smart as well as very profitable. They don't offer high end specs, or necessarily anything special, but people buy into them anyway at ludicrous prices. It's all because, as Simon Sinek states, the culture that Apple creates. They don't tell you they make the best phone, they tell you what they believe in as a company (so you buy into them) and they bring up that they make products that help you realize their vision and culture. When you get people on board with you, they'll buy into you as well. Though I don't like Apple and don't own anything they make, I've never said they were dumb.

    BlackBerry needs to create a culture for others to buy into, for either hardware, software or both. They need a clear vision, communicate it well (which is the part I think they are stuck on) and once the masses understand why they are truly different, some who believe in that vision will follow. That's why there are still BlackBerry addicts out there now. Unfortunately they are clinging to a vision that once was (innovation, productivity, elite status), and not one that reflects who they are today (security, privacy through both hardware and software solutions).



    Check it out

    Posted via CB10
    Plazmic Flame likes this.
    04-23-16 07:00 AM
  11. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    You know, thinking about this for days now, while I still think it's a great idea for BlackBerry to go midrange, BlackBerry's focus should be on how to sell their phones. Anyone here see the video on a guy named Simon Sinek? He talked at a TED conference, excellent video, I'll post a link later. One of his talking points was about Apple vs others on their respective markets, and their approach. Apple, as we all know, is very smart as well as very profitable. They don't offer high end specs, or necessarily anything special, but people buy into them anyway at ludicrous prices. It's all because, as Simon Sinek states, the culture that Apple creates. They don't tell you they make the best phone, they tell you what they believe in as a company (so you buy into them) and they bring up that they make products that help you realize their vision and culture. When you get people on board with you, they'll buy into you as well. Though I don't like Apple and don't own anything they make, I've never said they were dumb.

    BlackBerry needs to create a culture for others to buy into, for either hardware, software or both. They need a clear vision, communicate it well (which is the part I think they are stuck on) and once the masses understand why they are truly different, some who believe in that vision will follow. That's why there are still BlackBerry addicts out there now. Unfortunately they are clinging to a vision that once was (innovation, productivity, elite status), and not one that reflects who they are today (security, privacy through both hardware and software solutions).



    Check it out

    Posted via CB10
    Absolutely true. All great talking points throughout the video.
    I believe this is where BlackBerry needs to go back to their roots and play to their strengths, which is their keyboard offerings. They've had the best design and patented design for a reason. They should talk about the keyboard to death, what it offers, what it allows you to do, the precision and accuracy it gives you as you "write that novel", "prepare that business proposal", etc.

    Gah... someone at BlackBerry will "get it" one day, I hope.
    04-23-16 09:28 AM
  12. Ed YANG's Avatar
    I'm still stretching out my neck looking around for downlaodable BBOS10 which is installable on other devices.
    To wait for BlackBerry to come out with another device with installed OS10... bah... forget about it!
    04-23-16 10:16 AM
  13. EFats's Avatar
    Sure, if it gets low enough. The current problem is that several of the Chinese vendors (Xiaome, Huawei, etc) have already let it known they are selling at cost. Is BB ready to do that? If not, then you can't compete on price.

    I really think security is not a good differentiating factor. One, most people don't car and two, BB don't even have a good story for that in light of recent events.

    BB10 is a good OS, and studies have shown out of all the apps, there might be around 200 that most people use. BB should just differentiate phones that allow option of BB10 or Android and target efforts to port the top 20 apps
    Last edited by Fret Madden; 04-27-16 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Quoted removed
    04-23-16 10:25 AM
  14. slagman5's Avatar
    Sure, if it gets low enough. The current problem is that several of the Chinese vendors (Xiaome, Huawei, etc) have already let it known they are selling at cost. Is BB ready to do that? If not, then you can't compete on price.

    I really think security is not a good differentiating factor. One, most people don't car and two, BB don't even have a good story for that in light of recent events.

    BB10 is a good OS, and studies have shown out of all the apps, there might be around 200 that most people use. BB should just differentiate phones that allow option of BB10 or Android and target efforts to port the top 20 apps
    BB's problem was that they were complacent back when they were top dog and ignored the market changes when they happened. Had they released something like BB10 back when they were still relevant, companies like snap chat, shazam, whatsapp, facebook, etc, would have incentive to build good apps for the OS. But they pretty much waited until people were already looking to leave the system to do something about it.

    But right now because they are already in the situation they are, your idea could possibly work, or they can just work on skinning Android to behave just like BB10, then they will have phones different from others but still have access to all of the apps...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    04-23-16 10:41 AM
  15. Mithrandrost's Avatar
    What is more interesting is the rise of the $200 smartphone.

    Posted via my Blackberry Classic
    04-25-16 03:27 PM
  16. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Sure, if it gets low enough. The current problem is that several of the Chinese vendors (Xiaome, Huawei, etc) have already let it known they are selling at cost. Is BB ready to do that? If not, then you can't compete on price.

    I really think security is not a good differentiating factor. One, most people don't car and two, BB don't even have a good story for that in light of recent events.

    BB10 is a good OS, and studies have shown out of all the apps, there might be around 200 that most people use. BB should just differentiate phones that allow option of BB10 or Android and target efforts to port the top 20 apps
    Up until ransomware for phones appear.

    http://arstechnica.com/security/2016...-hacking-team/

    Sure it only affects older Androids right now but eventually someone somewhere will find exploits, especially with OEMs not giving any crap about security updates.
    04-25-16 04:19 PM
  17. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Closed, reviewing thread. Reopened.

    [warn]Keep it on topic, do not engage in personal squabbles on the forums. [/warn]
    Last edited by Fret Madden; 04-27-16 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Thread reopened
    04-27-16 11:05 AM

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