[Polaris2222]

I am with the folks who say it is difficult to say much without the numbers. It was really difficult to get a K1 after launch which tells me either they had production issues or demand outstripped supply. If the latter, then they underestimated demand. I can go with their comment that demand exceeded expectations based on this. I heavily suspect, along with others here, that while the K1 sales exceeded expectations, it wasn't enough to offset the decline in Alcatel phones - at least in terms of market share percentages.

[app_Developer]

Quite a few of us are US. The turnout for the CBK KEYone Meetups in the US were well-attended. It's a small percentage of the market in the US, but a large percentage of CB posters.

It would be interesting to see a poll.

[bb10adopter111]

It would be interesting to see a poll.

I'd love to know the demographics for CB, but I have no idea if a poll would be at all representative.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I don’t know about europe. BB sales have been near zero there for years.

I get the sense that if you counted people on CB, 4/5 or more of the people left here now are Canadian. That I understand because of patriotic affinity. But in the bigger picture, Canada is still a small country.

And Indonesia might still be in play. But that’s just 1 country in Asia.

Big problem is some of those markets where BlackBerry might have once been very popular.... are very "price sensitive" markets. Neither Optiemus nor PT BB Merah Putih have done much with their licensing deals, as even there the brand isn't seen in the same light it once was. And in general consumers know the difference in plastic, metal and glass.

[Carjackd]

Big problem is some of those markets where BlackBerry might have once been very popular.... are very "price sensitive" markets. Neither Optiemus nor PT BB Merah Putih have done much with their licensing deals, as even there the brand isn't seen in the same light it once was. And in general consumers know the difference in plastic, metal and glass.

I'm all down with plastic tho....it doesn't shatter like glass

[johnb_xp]

But how many units did the put out at launch? 100 handsets? Lol you will sell out of that

Sure, then they are still selling well. TCL wouldn't lose any money. Not high volume but still getting profits. : D

[LCW]

Any word on whether we can expect some good Black Friday deals on the Keyone? Specifically the CDMA model from either Best Buy or Amazon?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Any word on whether we can expect some good Black Friday deals on the Keyone? Specifically the CDMA model from either Best Buy or Amazon?

Not in Best Buy's Black Friday Ad - that's already out.

I doubt Amazon will do anything either... unless the seller, BlackBerry Mobile is planning to offer it at a special price. Maybe bring back the $50 flash sale again?

[bb10adopter111]

Not in Best Buy's Black Friday Ad - that's already out.

I doubt Amazon will do anything either... unless the seller, BlackBerry Mobile is planning to offer it at a special price. Maybe bring back the $50 flash sale again?

The lack of promotions means that BlackBerry Mobile does not believe that promotions would increase demand sufficiently to generate net profits, and/or that device supply does not currently exceed demand.

Since we know that the KEYone isn't selling millions of devices, and that BlackBerry Mobile doesn't have a lot of excess inventory, it appears that BlackBerry Mobile has balanced supply and demand. But we don't know the actual level of sales. Either the device is meeting expectations, or BlackBerry Mobile doesn't believe that it's prospective buyers are price sensitive.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[phuoc]

I plan on buying one tomorrow and hoping for another "flash sale", doesn't look good :-(

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The lack of promotions means that BlackBerry Mobile does not believe that promotions would increase demand sufficiently to generate net profits, and/or that device supply does not currently exceed demand.

Since we know that the KEYone isn't selling millions of devices, and that BlackBerry Mobile doesn't have a lot of excess inventory, it appears that BlackBerry Mobile has balanced supply and demand. But we don't know the actual level of sales. Either the device is meeting expectations, or BlackBerry Mobile doesn't believe that it's prospective buyers are price sensitive.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Well that would be a mistake....

But no a $50 savings isn't going to do much, and most that want it but can't afford it aren't being held back by $50. BlackBerry Mobile is more concerned about making money on each device produced than about sales numbers.

[bb10adopter111]

Well that would be a mistake....

But no a $50 savings isn't going to do much, and most that want it but can't afford it aren't being held back by $50. BlackBerry Mobile is more concerned about making money on each device produced than about sales numbers.

A $50 flash sale is a great promotion for marketers because it allows them to see exactly what the price sensitivity is at the current sales price on the price-demand curve. It's the kind of promotion that companies run for profitable products that they believe are priced properly, to confirm or refute that thesis.

That $50 promotion will be sufficient incentive for someone who wants the phone at the current price, but hasn't taken action yet. That's what it's designed for. It's not intended to lure people who are price shopping cheaper phones.

It's pretty clear that BlackBerry Mobile isn't interested in competing with commodity Android devices. A high volume, low margin business is not attractive to anyone but low cost specialists like Blu or huge companies with tremendous economies of scale like Samsung.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10268214)]

BlackBerry mobile is a value-added proposition for TCL. Something they could never have pulled off with their other product lines. If people are expecting the kinds of deep price cuts we saw from ShopBlackBerry they are going to be waiting a very long time.

[bb10adopter111]

BlackBerry mobile is a value-added proposition for TCL. Something they could never have pulled off with their other product lines. If people are expecting the kinds of deep price cuts we saw from ShopBlackBerry they are going to be waiting a very long time.

Exactly. Bottom feeders who have come to think of BlackBerry as a company that discounts hard and fast need to find another phone.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Troy Tiscareno]

All of those rapid discounts were due to constant over-production and was a big reason why BB always lost money on devices.

[LCW]

Just went and picked up another KEYone. The lure was too strong. Lol

[phuoc]

Likewise ^^^^^^^:-)

[Carjackd]

Well that would be a mistake....

But no a $50 savings isn't going to do much, and most that want it but can't afford it aren't being held back by $50. BlackBerry Mobile is more concerned about making money on each device produced than about sales numbers.

Not really true. They are more concerned with getting these devices in people's hands. Although it's been challenging trying to rebuild the carrier relationships

[bb10adopter111]

Not really true. They are more concerned with getting these devices in people's hands. Although it's been challenging trying to rebuild the carrier relationships

Are you saying that they would or should be discounting more if they had better carrier relationships? I'm just not sure what you're saying. Could you please clarify?

Posted with my trusty Z10

[LCW]

They must have enough of a carrier relation with Verizon to have an approved CDMA version. Just too VZW doesn't carry or promote them.

[app_Developer]

First of all i don’t assume that TCL Comm knows what they are doing. They haven’t been a successful company. They’ve lagged in western markets, which is what led to these investments in the PALM and BB brands to begin with.

What I still don’t understand is how their enterprise focus will play out in the US. They need some volume/buzz to get the scale that is required to make it onto VZ’s corporate portals. If they don’t get on VZ there is no corporate strategy for the US, period.

Corporate focus can sometimes be shorthand for “we can’t compete in consumer so we’re going to retreat over here.”

[Carjackd]

Are you saying that they would or should be discounting more if they had better carrier relationships? I'm just not sure what you're saying. Could you please clarify?

Posted with my trusty Z10

Not at all. They are not as concerned about total sales numbers, they are trying to get devices into the hands of people who want them. So that the exposure will drive future demand. Although its challenging given the rebuilding required with the carriers. This is making it very difficult for you and I to get out there in the public and show people how awesome this phone is.

There is always people out here that complain about pricing of devices as BlackBerry / blackberry Mobile releases them. You are never going to make those people happy. Blackberry is not a "discount brand" . If these folks don't see the value in what BlackBerry has to offer then maybe BlackBerry isn't for them in the first place.

IMO..anyone who thinks they didn't hit the nail on the head with the KEYone and Motion pricing is out of their mind.

Right now they need to focus on their "strong holds" ( Europe, Canada, China, let Optimus do their thing) , and get these devices into the hands of people who love them, the people that know that it's running Android, that it has a battery that will keep going , that it's build like a tank. People who can get into the carriers that have the devices so they can educate the sales people in the store fronts. BlackBerry Mobile doesn't have enough boots on the ground. It's going to be the members here that turn this ship around.

Once they start seeing more devices moving I'm sure TCL will start throwing more advertising dollars at it. Right now...they are after that niche and we are seeing a lot (and more to come) out door advertising in business districts and city centers.

So to answer your question straight out. No they shouldn't discount the brand. An abundance of inventory is the only reason they have discounted in the past.

[bb10adopter111]

Not at all. They are not as concerned about total sales numbers, they are trying to get devices into the hands of people who want them. So that the exposure will drive future demand. Although its challenging given the rebuilding required with the carriers. This is making it very difficult for you and I to get out there in the public and show people how awesome this phone is.

There is always people out here that complain about pricing of devices as BlackBerry / blackberry Mobile releases them. You are never going to make those people happy. Blackberry is not a "discount brand" . If these folks don't see the value in what BlackBerry has to offer then maybe BlackBerry isn't for them in the first place.

IMO..anyone who thinks they didn't hit the nail on the head with the KEYone and Motion pricing is out of their mind.

Right now they need to focus on their "strong holds" ( Europe, Canada, China, let Optimus do their thing) , and get these devices into the hands of people who love them, the people that know that it's running Android, that it has a battery that will keep going , that it's build like a tank. People who can get into the carriers that have the devices so they can educate the sales people in the store fronts. BlackBerry Mobile doesn't have enough boots on the ground. It's going to be the members here that turn this ship around.

Once they start seeing more devices moving I'm sure TCL will start throwing more advertising dollars at it. Right now...they are after that niche and we are seeing a lot (and more to come) out door advertising in business districts and city centers.

So to answer your question straight out. No they shouldn't discount the brand. An abundance of inventory is the only reason they have discounted in the past.

Got it. I agree that the only sensible approach for them is slow and steady growth until they have carrier support. No reason to take a chance on BlackBerry - style losses.

Rehabilitating the BlackBerry brand will take time, not a big, dramatic one shot gamble. They need to demonstrate their relevance and staying power. There is no guarantee they'll succeed, but they're doing it in a sensible way so that, if they fail, they won't lose too much money.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Carjackd]

Got it. I agree that the only sensible approach for them is slow and steady growth until they have carrier support. No reason to take a chance on BlackBerry - style losses.

Rehabilitating the BlackBerry brand will take time, not a big, dramatic one shot gamble. They need to demonstrate their relevance and staying power. There is no guarantee they'll succeed, but they're doing it in a sensible way so that, if they fail, they won't lose too much money.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Exactly! It's going to be slow and steady although there is some exciting things to come in 2018. Hopefully it's enough to get more carriers on board.

[ChainPunch]

Makers share numbers can be deceiving if you don't look at the details. For example: it is possible for a company to loose market share, but their total numbers of smartphone users are up from previous accounts. The reason for this is because if there is an influx of new smartphone users that gives companies the opportunity to gain more users, which can cause a shift in market share numbers.