[yessuz]

I've made the vehicle comparison before because I think that it is such a similar concept yet somehow easier to grasp the difference in "value."

Here are two vehicles with a very similar engine in each:

Attachment 420264

Attachment 420265

Now, should the price be a pretty close match in both of these models? How likely is it that someone would choose one over the other simply based on the price?

As another user said, the price is the price and you either want it badly enough that you pay the price for it or not. I highly doubt that anyone shopping for a supercar is going to try and haggle the price down because it's 'only' the same engine that the manufacturer is putting in an other [and extremely different] model.

You can think that it's overpriced, under-priced, or right-on-the -money [pun partially intended], it's not going to change the fact that the price will be whatever it will be. And, in the case of a slab phone that doesn't have much to differentiate from the hundreds of other options available, price might be more of a deciding factor. With respect to the KEYone, however, I think that the price is actually going to be a fairly minute detail as to whether or not it actually sells in good volume.

If people want it, it will sell. In order for people to want it, people need to know about it. It will need to be advertised and have much more exposure than any device BlackBerry has released since the Z10. And it will need to be readily available (through the carriers). All of these are more important factors than the price point.

Although you tried, I see a bit of a flaw here.

I actually would compare it this way:
Toyota Camry saloon - is any vkb 625 device, you name it.
So it is reasonably fast, universal, spacious, with decent interior, etc. And more over, it is reasonably priced at 30k$.

Now, Toyota says: hey, there a slight niche, that someone will want an estate/wagon version, you name it, depending on where you live. It will have absolutely the same trim, engine and everything else, except it will have an Estate/wagon boot. Everything exactly the same, just a boot is different.
And toyota would price it not 30k$, but 60k$.

Ask yourself: would it be reasonable? I would still buy it if I need one, but I would be quite pissed off by the fact of price difference.





Posted via CB10

[yessuz]

Keyone has 1gb more ram than the moto.

Keyone comes with blackberry android suite that requires a yearly subscription on other android phones

Keyone comes with the keyboard with more complicated parts and engineering than a typical virtual keyboard.

Keyone comes with monthly security patches straight from blackberry. As for Lenovo Moto, it is not getting that.



Posted via CB10

Amm? KEYone has 3gb, moto has 4. Not that decisive factor, but still.
Hub++ available for other without yearly subscription, with ads. Yet to see one.
True regarding pkb.
Not necessarily

Posted via CB10

[yessuz]

Agreed.

However, MOST people agree that the 625 is actually pretty decent and the debate only comes in when you compare it to the dollar value that it translates into. It's not seen as a "high-end" processor and therefore some people don't think the speculated price tag associated with the KEYone is fair.

If we had nothing to debate, this would be a much quieter place.

I believe, the main fuss is not because "625 is not powerful enough" or"3gb ram is not enough" or 32 gb rom is not enough"!

The main issue here is, that these are ok and decent specs. Price is not!

Posted via CB10

[guygardner73]

I believe, the main fuss is not because "625 is not powerful enough" or"3gb ram is not enough" or 32 gb rom is not enough"!

The main issue here is, that these are ok and decent specs. Price is not!

Posted via CB10

Well, i'm happy with the price.

Posted via CB10

[yessuz]

Well, i'm happy with the price.

Posted via CB10

Good for you. I am never happy when I overpay.

Not that I am not going to overpay myself, LOL

Posted via CB10

[guygardner73]

Good for you. I am never happy when I overpay.

Not that I am not going to overpay myself, LOL

Posted via CB10

My last 7 phones have cost that much. It's not over priced at all. Nokia N95 = £519, BlackBerry Curve 8900 = £420, Torch 9800 = £489, Bold 9900 = £510, Z10 = £529, Q10 =£529, Passport = £529, Priv = £549. KEYone is £499. Just because it's more expensive than a cheapo droid slab doesn't make it expensive. It's a midrange price for solid good quality hardware and to be fair it's way below the £899 for a S8 plus or Pixel plus. Mid range price for an upper mid range phone. No over payment involved at all. Sorry you feel that way LOL

Posted via CB10

[yessuz]

My last 7 phones have cost that much. It's not over priced at all. Nokia N95 = £519, BlackBerry Curve 8900 = £420, Torch 9800 = £489, Bold 9900 = £510, Z10 = £529, Q10 =£529, Passport = £529, Priv = £549. KEYone is £499. Just because it's more expensive than a cheapo droid slab doesn't make it expensive. It's a midrange price for solid good quality hardware and to be fair it's way below the £899 for a S8 plus or Pixel plus. Mid range price for an upper mid range phone. No over payment involved at all. Sorry you feel that way LOL

Posted via CB10

We are in the Android world now.

Previously, it was hard to compare with others, due to different OS and different same chip performance on different OS. When you have proprietary OS, you can optimize it to have better performance on weaker specs. Therefore that's why iOS and BB10 (and BBOS for that matter) used to perform better on weaker specs that Androids on better specs.

That's why in Android everyone look at the specs.
While I agree that 625 chipset and other things in KEYone are midrange, no matter how you look it, the price is of the higher spec device.

That's what bugs me. Not the specs, but the price. You all here are trying to justify 200+ gbp for the keyboard.

Security and hub is kind of irrelevant, as hub++ is available for free with ads, or 0.99 a month. So software, if you look at it, is actually worth like 36 dollars per device lifetime, as usually everyone change their devices every two or max 3 years. So there, your software value.
Security - well, you know, even chinese manufacturers offer monthly android updates. Those updates are nice, obviously, but do they really bring you those critical updates? As we all see from the practice, most people do not give a damn about security.
Hell, bb10 has like 1 update a year or so.

So actually the value in software is close to 0 (0.99 a month) and value in security is questionable. So it's all what we get different is... well, keyboard and "craftsmanship". And you would be surprised how some cheaper devices feel in hand. So this is quite subjective.

So that's why I say I feel that this is just over-priced a bit. And I know that I will pay this money. And that's kind of a fact. But this does not change the fact that it is overpriced.

Posted via CB10

[joekiser]

Security - well, you know, even chinese manufacturers offer monthly android updates. Those updates are nice, obviously, but do they really bring you those critical updates? As we all see from the practice, most people do not give a damn about security.

Which Chinese manufacturers are providing consistent software updates? Xiaomi and ... ?

The Android security model has always been to buy a new phone. Since BlackBerry arrived, they have at least created a Debian - like LTS branch with timely security back ports, even if they lag behind by a major revision.

To me, it's a wash without considering the keyboard. You want a 625 chipset, you can get the Moto this year and still have the money left over to buy next year's faster version when you are no longer getting updates. But that discards the value of a physical keyboard, for which there is only a single option anymore.

The people who want a physical keyboard will buy it. They will have a phone that is stable, secure, and has at least two years of reasonable usage. Don't discard that value. Most people, myself included, have moved on.

[franqueb]

Which Chinese manufacturers are providing consistent software updates? Xiaomi and ... ?

The Android security model has always been to buy a new phone. Since BlackBerry arrived, they have at least created a Debian - like LTS branch with timely security back ports, even if they lag behind by a major revision.

To me, it's a wash without considering the keyboard. You want a 625 chipset, you can get the Moto this year and still have the money left over to buy next year's faster version when you are no longer getting updates. But that discards the value of a physical keyboard, for which there is only a single option anymore.

The people who want a physical keyboard will buy it. They will have a phone that is stable, secure, and has at least two years of reasonable usage. Don't discard that value. Most people, myself included, have moved on.

Before it was android than blackberry arrive!!!

Hello! RIM-Blackberry has invented the smartphone. Before there was mobile phone and organiser but no smartphone. No email sending on mobile... they first invent the push mail( the first idea of Lazarus)...

[royal_black]

Just because it's more expensive than a cheapo droid slab doesn't make it expensive.

This! was a very good and intelligent argument. Couldn't say it better :-)


Posted via CB10

[bb10adopter111]

The reason that this argument will never end is that It simply is not possible to arrive at an objective number for the perceived value of a product or service. What we're seeing is lots of people sharing their personal opinion and perceptions. If people would just preface their posts with, "I think" or "IMHO," then we could stop having so many circular discussions

Alternately, it is possible to have a rational discussion about price related to business goals. But it seems that there is little agreement about what TCL's goals are for the KEYone. What are TCL's sales and profit goals? We don't know.

Personally, I believe they are just trying to keep existing BlackBerry users happy with an attractive PKB device so that they capture the low-hanging fruit and keep the brand alive until they have time to release more BlackBerry-branded devices. Even though the BlackBerry brand is not what it once was, it's a MUCH stronger brand in terms of awareness and loyalty than the Alcatel brand is.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[murphy_thom]

Bingo! This my argument since day 1-
Niche product for a niche market. There's no denying with one look the KEYone is a BlackBerry product. If BlackBerry Mobile wanted to go after the masses they would coming out with a low end slab followed by a high end slab. These may hit the market in the fall.




Posted via CB10

[TheBirdDog]

Bingo! This my argument since day 1-
Niche product for a niche market. There's no denying with one look the KEYone is a BlackBerry product. If BlackBerry Mobile wanted to go after the masses they would coming out with a low end slab followed by a high end slab. These may hit the market in the fall.




Posted via CB10

You mean like the DTEK50 and then the DTEK60? :P

I agree.

I'm sure TCL know they have a niche product on their hands. BlackBerry is a niche brand and, now that the "modern" smartphone (including BlackBerry branded devices) are predominantly the 'slab' style design, the KEYone is a niche within a niche. It's people around here who seem to have more of a difficult time accepting that fact.

It can be argued that they MIGHT sell more if it were priced cheaper but, quite frankly, I don't think that's true. For the very reason that it is a niche device, their sales numbers aren't going to change much solely because their price is $100 or so higher or lower. The people who want this device will buy it and the ones who don't won't - the price will not being their deciding factor, either way.

To anyone complaining about the price (and considering the 'specs' as your main reasoning point), the KEYone is probably not for you. At least not until the price drops...

The KEYone is not trying to compete with anything currently on the market. It is simply filling a niche. TCL doesn't have to be overly concerned with the specs or the price because that is not what makes the KEYone standout from the rest. It's not trying to be a budget phone nor is it trying to be a powerhouse. It is simply a solid attempt to maintain the niche market that BlackBerry has created and, IN MY OPINION, the specs AND the price are actually quite reasonable considering.

[jakie55]

There are so many devices with similar specs.... Alcatel itself, Asus, MOto. But if you want a keyboard..... just one. I for one, feel that the price is reasonable for a unique niche product

[mithrazor]

Although you tried, I see a bit of a flaw here.

I actually would compare it this way:
Toyota Camry saloon - is any vkb 625 device, you name it.
So it is reasonably fast, universal, spacious, with decent interior, etc. And more over, it is reasonably priced at 30k$.

Now, Toyota says: hey, there a slight niche, that someone will want an estate/wagon version, you name it, depending on where you live. It will have absolutely the same trim, engine and everything else, except it will have an Estate/wagon boot. Everything exactly the same, just a boot is different.
And toyota would price it not 30k$, but 60k$.

Ask yourself: would it be reasonable? I would still buy it if I need one, but I would be quite pissed off by the fact of price difference.





Posted via CB10

Think about it this way. You buy a Toyota Camry base model for 23k. Which is equivalent to the cheap droid phones with 625.

You get a bigger battery, keyboard, solid build, great cameras, you know all of the small stuff. Which is like buying a Toyota Camry XLE.

A device with no compromises. You get flagship quality phone, except the specs are midrange.

So it's not a 300 dollar droid. But it's not a 700 dollar flagship either. A neatly placed in the middle device.

[TheBirdDog]

...

So it's not a 300 dollar droid. But it's not a 700 dollar flagship either. A neatly placed in the middle device.

I'm sorry, Sir, but you sound far too logical for this thread. How can it be anything but one extreme or the other? I bet that you are going to start spewing nonesense such as 'the Earth is not the center of our Solar System' next.

Seesh! This guy...

[Insync]

Well, there's a difference between "can I/can I not afford it" and "value".

There are plenty of things in the world that I acknowledge have value, that I can't afford.

Just because I *can't* afford it doesn't affect the value proposition. It's only when you can afford it but refuse to buy it because of price, that means you don't put value on it.

Fine philosophical analysis.

Posted via CB10

[franqueb]

It could be true... but in that particular case people here are more concern in their answers by try to "help" blackberry mobile to get the most appropriate appropriate launching price to sell much as it possible keyone devices. Members want Blackberry mobile to succes not only because they want to be rightness about stay a Blackberry users and consider blackberry devices valuable. But because they want to still able to buy new devices with same philosophy of mobile devices for many years.