Built for Business - Learn more about BlackBerry KEY2
10-31-18 11:52 AM
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  1. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    As I prepare to live on from BB10 and give up on using mobile as my preferred email platform, I find that I simply don't care which Android or iOS device I have at hand, because it's no longer a bottleneck for my performance.
    I'm surprised you ever did. Mobile is a great tool for certain types of communication...but email? I would say it does that pretty lousy next to a proper full-sized (and ergonomically designed) computer workstation.

    Having said that, I suspect email will have gone the way of the dodo long before mobiles phones ever do...
    09-27-18 12:49 PM
  2. the_boon's Avatar
    Other than some in Canada, that appears to be the case.
    Kind of early to tell no? The device is barely starting to make its way into a handful of retailers
    09-27-18 01:18 PM
  3. thurask's Avatar
    Kind of early to tell no? The device is barely starting to make its way into a handful of retailers
    Retailers, sure, but one can tell if a device will be destined for carriers (American especially) from looking into a dumped OS. As it stands there are zero American carrier variants (since they love bespoke variants instead of pushing generic devices) even planned, let alone released; there are some hints that the BBE100-5 or at least one variant of it might be Verizon BYOD whitelisted, but that would be better answered with a volunteer than attempting to get a binding answer out of TCL. The only PRDs I've seen that definitely map to carriers are the big three in Canada.

    For reference, the remains of the AT&T-branded BBF100-2 and Sprint-branded BBF100-3 are found in every KEY2 OS.
    09-27-18 01:24 PM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I'm surprised you ever did. Mobile is a great tool for certain types of communication...but email? I would say it does that pretty lousy next to a proper full-sized (and ergonomically designed) computer workstation.

    Having said that, I suspect email will have gone the way of the dodo long before mobiles phones ever do...
    Some young people today don't even have email setup on their phones... or they don't know how to use it. But messaging, that they know.

    I don't think a Mobile device is all that great for spreadsheets, but email... most cases my emails are a few sentences with a few attachments. I'm just fine using a phone for taking care of a lot of my business emails.
    09-27-18 02:01 PM
  5. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Some young people today don't even have email setup on their phones... or they don't know how to use it. But messaging, that they know.

    I don't think a Mobile device is all that great for spreadsheets, but email... most cases my emails are a few sentences with a few attachments. I'm just fine using a phone for taking care of a lot of my business emails.
    Ha ha...I consider a one or two sentence email a text message, for all intents and purposes.

    For correspondence that has replaced traditional snail mail for official documents, such brevity is not always possible (or even recommended).
    09-27-18 02:38 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I'm surprised you ever did. Mobile is a great tool for certain types of communication...but email? I would say it does that pretty lousy next to a proper full-sized (and ergonomically designed) computer workstation.

    Having said that, I suspect email will have gone the way of the dodo long before mobiles phones ever do...
    It's the nature of my work that I have needed to send detailed and timely communications while away from my desk dozens of times a day. I touch type 70+ wpm on a keyboard, but the 40+ wpm I can manage on a handheld is more than adequate when I'm composing my thoughts at the same time.

    Since 2004, I've found that the dedicated email platform that BlackBerry offered was far superior to any of the PC-based email clients, from Lotus Notes to Outlook to Mozilla Thunderbird or Gmail for having large volumes of email across multiple domains. That's why I would use my handheld for email even while seated at my PC!

    Unfortunately, I do not find that to be the case on either Android or iOS. They are adequate for email when no PC is available, but not superior.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-27-18 04:09 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    It's the nature of my work that I have needed to send detailed and timely communications while away from my desk dozens of times a day. I touch type 70+ wpm on a keyboard, but the 40+ wpm I can manage on a handheld is more than adequate when I'm composing my thoughts at the same time.

    Since 2004, I've found that the dedicated email platform that BlackBerry offered was far superior to any of the PC-based email clients, from Lotus Notes to Outlook to Mozilla Thunderbird or Gmail for having large volumes of email across multiple domains. That's why I would use my handheld for email even while seated at my PC!

    Unfortunately, I do not find that to be the case on either Android or iOS. They are adequate for email when no PC is available, but not superior.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I can't get my head around how the lost 3.27% in efficiency on an Android email client (compared to BB10) changes much in your overall platform workflow analysis.
    09-27-18 04:32 PM
  8. krazyatom's Avatar
    So key2 LE may not get android P. It's not guaranteed?

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-18 04:32 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    So key2 LE may not get android P. It's not guaranteed?

    Posted via CB10
    As much as anything can be "guaranteed" , sure it is.

    Of course there is no CDMA crap-show this time around.
    09-27-18 04:36 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I can't get my head around how the lost 3.27% in efficiency on an Android email client (compared to BB10) changes much in your overall platform workflow analysis.
    The short answer is that, for me, it's a question of minimizing cognitive load more than time.

    The long answer would involve comparative screen shots and explanations of the cognitive load for a variety of critical tasks. And, honestly, having explained my perspective repeatedly in these forums, I don't think that it's worth my time to do it again unless I know people are genuinely interested in the analysis.

    My typical experience is I take the time and make the effort to compose a detailed, nuanced argument, and the response is, "Dude, BB10 is dead. If you can't learn a new OS you're just old, stubborn and stupid. Get over it LOLOL."

    I know that's not what you're asking Conite, but I'm tiring of the lack of intelligence and interest in different points of view in these forums. It feels increasingly like a waste of my time and energy to explain myself.

    At the end of the day, too many people think that their use case is the "normal" one and don't really pay attention to what other people are actually doing with their phones.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Smokeaire likes this.
    09-27-18 04:53 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    The short answer is that, for me, it's a question of minimizing cognitive load more than time.

    The long answer would involve comparative screen shots and explanations of the cognitive load for a variety of critical tasks. And, honestly, having explained my perspective repeatedly in these forums, I don't think that it's worth my time to do it again unless I know people are genuinely interested in the analysis.

    My typical experience is I take the time and make the effort to compose a detailed, nuanced argument, and the response is, "Dude, BB10 is dead. If you can't learn a new OS you're just old, stubborn and stupid. Get over it LOLOL."

    I know that's not what you're asking Conite, but I'm tiring of the lack of intelligence and interest in different points of view in these forums. It feels increasingly like a waste of my time and energy to explain myself.

    At the end of the day, too many people think that their use case is the "normal" one and don't really pay attention to what other people are actually doing with their phones.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I know your reasons why you prefer BB10 very well, and I'm not asking you to repeat them, nor should you EVER have to justify them. As I've always stated - to each his own.

    I'm just wondering how the incremental cognitive load can so drastically change your whole perception of the mobile/desktop paradigm.
    09-27-18 05:04 PM
  12. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I know your reasons why you prefer BB10 very well, and I'm not asking you to repeat them, nor should you EVER have to justify them. As I've always stated - to each his own.

    I'm just wondering how the incremental cognitive load can so drastically change your whole perception of the mobile/desktop paradigm.
    He lost me at 70 wpm vs 40 on mobile.

    Personally I consider having to write emails to be one of the single biggest wastes of time of my professional career. Most email is like garbage. It keeps accumulating and needs to be disposed of...but you can't simply get rid of it before spending the time to pack it, bag it, take it out to the curb, and in some cases...tie a red bow around it for the garbage man. Lol.
    09-27-18 05:31 PM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The short answer is that, for me, it's a question of minimizing cognitive load more than time.

    The long answer would involve comparative screen shots and explanations of the cognitive load for a variety of critical tasks. And, honestly, having explained my perspective repeatedly in these forums, I don't think that it's worth my time to do it again unless I know people are genuinely interested in the analysis.

    My typical experience is I take the time and make the effort to compose a detailed, nuanced argument, and the response is, "Dude, BB10 is dead. If you can't learn a new OS you're just old, stubborn and stupid. Get over it LOLOL."

    I know that's not what you're asking Conite, but I'm tiring of the lack of intelligence and interest in different points of view in these forums. It feels increasingly like a waste of my time and energy to explain myself.

    At the end of the day, too many people think that their use case is the "normal" one and don't really pay attention to what other people are actually doing with their phones.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I haven’t replied lately but your reply bothered me. I’m curious sometimes with the level you push BB10 for email because I never found it as effective or fluid as BBOS for email. Whenever I ask questions or comment, it’s not meant to be critical of your choice of BB10 as you’ve explained in detail how it’s best for you. More importantly, you don’t owe anyone explanations, but through your examples, I understand your position regarding mobile OS and it’s devices. I’ve always just been fascinated with your opposite perspective. It’s helped me in my device usage and device efficiency for totally different reasons.

    Hope you don’t think some of us here ask certain questions being totally obtuse to your reasons. Anyway, carry on, just wanted to make sure all is good....
    09-27-18 05:39 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I know your reasons why you prefer BB10 very well, and I'm not asking you to repeat them, nor should you EVER have to justify them. As I've always stated - to each his own.

    I'm just wondering how the incremental cognitive load can so drastically change your whole perception of the mobile/desktop paradigm.
    It's a perfectly reasonable question. The quality of my thinking is better with fewer distractions. So, I make better tactical decisions about what to write, and I write better. With the rotating LED colors I'm less likely to miss responding to an important email quickly. Finally, I make fewer mistakes (all kinds, not just typing accuracy but also only cc'ing people in the correct domain, not hitting reply all instead of reply and vice versa, etc. )

    Given that I only write emails that I think will improve the business performance of my team, better ideas, better writing, and timely communications move the needle more. I am more effective and productive on a dedicated writing platform, which is what BBOS and BB10 are to me.

    The best analogy I can make is a properly chosen Chef's knife vs. a Swiss army knife for preparing food, though I freely admit it's a flawed analogy!
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 09-28-18 at 02:48 AM.
    09-27-18 07:46 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    He lost me at 70 wpm vs 40 on mobile.

    Personally I consider having to write emails to be one of the single biggest wastes of time of my professional career. Most email is like garbage. It keeps accumulating and needs to be disposed of...but you can't simply get rid of it before spending the time to pack it, bag it, take it out to the curb, and in some cases...tie a red bow around it for the garbage man. Lol.
    As a B2B consultant, pretty much all of my work is a combination of meetings and email. Recently, on a Sunday when I only carried my KEYone, I received an unexpected email from a prospect who was in the US for a few days suggesting times for a meeting I'd been trying to schedule for months. But, because the KEYone doesn't rotate LED colors for unread messages in the HUB, I missed the blue LED that distinguishes that email account, and only saw the yellow one for my personal email.

    As a result, by the time I noticed the message an hour and a half later, the meeting time I had been offered was no longer available, and now I have to wait a few months until that prospect returns to the US. As a result, by the regression analysis we use, the likelihood of closing that $500K contract went from about 75% to less than 50% for a net loss of $125K in revenue and $45K in profit.

    That's the real world business cost of trying to use the KEYone as my primary phone on a lazy Sunday. Since I wasn't expecting the email, the only alternative would be to turn on the screen and scan my email every 10 minutes during all my waking hours!
    09-27-18 08:02 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I haven’t replied lately but your reply bothered me. I’m curious sometimes with the level you push BB10 for email because I never found it as effective or fluid as BBOS for email. Whenever I ask questions or comment, it’s not meant to be critical of your choice of BB10 as you’ve explained in detail how it’s best for you. More importantly, you don’t owe anyone explanations, but through your examples, I understand your position regarding mobile OS and it’s devices. I’ve always just been fascinated with your opposite perspective. It’s helped me in my device usage and device efficiency for totally different reasons.

    Hope you don’t think some of us here ask certain questions being totally obtuse to your reasons. Anyway, carry on, just wanted to make sure all is good....
    Sorry if my tone was off. I'm totally cool with being much more heavily dependent on email than most people, and I agree that BBOS was even better than BB10 in some respects.

    For me, the Hub implementation on the Z10 was a huge game changer that made it more usable and effective than BBOS. My situational awareness related to email while carrying my Z10 is the best of any device I've owned. So long as I have battery power (which requires carrying chargers and extra batteries), it allows me to monitor and respond effortlessly with minimum effort.
    09-27-18 08:09 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    ) ...it allows me to monitor and respond effortlessly with minimum effort.
    That horrible, redundant sentence was written on my KEYone!
    09-27-18 08:14 PM
  18. Emaderton3's Avatar
    As a B2B consultant, pretty much all of my work is a combination of meetings and email. Recently, on a Sunday when I only carried my KEYone, I received an unexpected email from a prospect who was in the US for a few days suggesting times for a meeting I'd been trying to schedule for months. But, because the KEYone doesn't rotate LED colors for unread messages in the HUB, I missed the blue LED that distinguishes that email account, and only saw the yellow one for my personal email.

    As a result, by the time I noticed the message an hour and a half later, the meeting time I had been offered was no longer available, and now I have to wait a few months until that prospect returns to the US. As a result, by the regression analysis we use, the likelihood of closing that $500K contract went from about 75% to less than 50% for a net loss of $125K in revenue and $45K in profit.

    That's the real world business cost of trying to use the KEYone as my primary phone on a lazy Sunday. Since I wasn't expecting the email, the only alternative would be to turn on the screen and scan my email every 10 minutes during all my waking hours!
    You can customize accounts with certain colors as well as contacts. There are also custom alerts. These wouldn't work for you?
    09-27-18 08:21 PM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You can customize accounts with certain colors as well as contacts. There are also custom alerts. These wouldn't work for you?
    There is no way on Android to make the LED colors rotate for all unread messages in the Hub like you can in BB10.

    Assume that the phone is locked and set to Do Not Disturb. So the ONLY possible cue is the color of the LED. If I am getting 19 messages an hour on one account and 1 message a day on another, it will be very unusual to see the LED blinking for the less frequent color.

    There are many ways to configure notifications and alerts if you don't mind turning on the screen or allowing the phone to make noise, but that is too intrusive for a Sunday afternoon when I'm not expecting a critical work email to arrive.

    So my choices are to make my phone a general nuisance just in case I get an important message or to stick with the phone that allows me to ignore it while politely informing me which accounts have unread messages. Easy choice for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-27-18 08:35 PM
  20. Emaderton3's Avatar
    There is no way on Android to make the LED colors rotate for all unread messages in the Hub like you can in BB10.

    Assume that the phone is locked and set to Do Not Disturb. So the ONLY possible cue is the color of the LED. If I am getting 19 messages an hour on one account and 1 message a day on another, it will be very unusual to see the LED blinking for the less frequent color.

    There are many ways to configure notifications and alerts if you don't mind turning on the screen or allowing the phone to make noise, but that is too intrusive for a Sunday afternoon when I'm not expecting a critical work email to arrive.

    So my choices are to make my phone a general nuisance just in case I get an important message or to stick with the phone that allows me to ignore it while politely informing me which accounts have unread messages. Easy choice for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I didn't even remember BB10 doing that. So K1 will only blink the color of the account with the newest email?
    09-27-18 08:38 PM
  21. HostessCupcake's Avatar
    TCL would much prefer to give you Oreo. The very last thing they want to do is support a Nougat branch for the next couple of years.
    But I thought BlackBerry™ was doing the software?
    09-28-18 02:12 AM
  22. HostessCupcake's Avatar
    We have no idea how many initial KEYᵒⁿᵉs were affected. Mine wasn't. We don't have nearly enough information to judge whether they did the "right" thing, or the "smart" thing.
    Who does have that information?

    The delay of the CDMA devices was due to Verizon. Until they decided to whitelist, there was no point in having product for sale.

    Anyone could have cancelled their order and been refunded their "hard-earned" money.

    Overall product fulfillment was slow at launch, because they grossly underestimated the demand. As a fan, I would only see that as a good thing.
    Simply untrue. The Verizon K1 was not even in Amazon's or Best Buy's warehouses on May 31, 2017. Their customer service departments confirmed this. Verizon is not at fault for TCL simply not manufacturing and shipping them on time.
    09-28-18 02:15 AM
  23. HostessCupcake's Avatar
    Kind of early to tell no? The device is barely starting to make its way into a handful of retailers
    Is it even making its way to retailers though? I haven't seen it actually for sale anywhere, and they only have a few days left to meet their "available beginning next month" promise. Of course, promises from TCL and BlackBerry are totally worthless...
    09-28-18 02:21 AM
  24. skkayman's Avatar
    Hmm, another pain in the * with Android? Now with not cycling LED colors of notification.
    I found this application in gstore - "Light Flow Pro - LED Control", it says
    Controlling the notification LED for phones that have them (cycling colors through outstanding notifications)
    Maybe this would fix it..
    09-28-18 02:43 AM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I didn't even remember BB10 doing that. So K1 will only blink the color of the account with the newest email?
    Correct.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-28-18 02:45 AM
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