[RK_BB]

@Livermore

My thesis regarding the exclusion of the capacitive keyboard on the LE is entirely different than simply creating a consumer choice (a lost leader?).

IMO, and so as in the opinion of others, the capacitive keyboard on the KEY² is defective. I proved it by testing no less than 4 devices and have knowledge of well over affected 20 users. If you have patience to read through the thread that discuss the ghost in the keyboard you will see that this theory isn't too far fetched.

BlackBerry Mobile knows that physically not all PKB's assembled alike and are trying to make software adjustments to compensate for bugs derived from lack of physical manufacturing consistently.

They simply avoided taking this manufacturing risk with the LE and categorized the exclusion of the feature as the reason for the lower price point.

Excluding an already existing technology cannot save that much money to make up for a $200 difference in price; this is artificial.

Adding @Smokeaire @TheBond @Crusader03

/blackberry-key2-f472/physical-keyboard-use-randomly-activates-pointer-cursor-mode-issue-1155317/

[conite]

Excluding an already existing technology cannot save that much money to make up for a $200 difference in price; this is artificial.

Different SoC, less RAM, different camera, polycarbonate shell, AND non-capacitive keyboard - together - account for $200.

These two devices were being certified over a year ago. Any possible capacitive "issue" would have notihing to do with any choices BBMo made regarding what to include or not include on the LE.

[RK_BB]

Any possible capacitive "issue" would have notihing to do with any choices BBMo made regarding what to include or not include on the LE.

Perhaps. This is nothing but my theory; it has no other basis with the exception of my experience.

[TheBond]

@Livermore

My thesis regarding the exclusion of the capacitive keyboard on the LE is entirely different than simply creating a consumer choice (a lost leader?).

IMO, and so as in the opinion of others, the capacitive keyboard on the KEY² is defective. I proved it by testing no less than 4 devices and have knowledge of well over affected 20 users. If you have patience to read through the thread that discuss the ghost in the keyboard you will see that this theory isn't too far fetched.

BlackBerry Mobile knows that physically not all PKB's assembled alike and are trying to make software adjustments to compensate for bugs derived from lack of physical manufacturing consistently.

They simply avoided taking this manufacturing risk with the LE and categorized the exclusion of the feature as the reason for the lower price point.

Excluding an already existing technology cannot save that much money to make up for a $200 difference in price; this is artificial.

Adding @Smokeaire @TheBond @Crusader03

/blackberry-key2-f472/physical-keyboard-use-randomly-activates-pointer-cursor-mode-issue-1155317/

No I don't think they made KEY² LE because of the keyboard issues. It was already on the drawing board to offer cheaper alternative to promote sales and brand.

They have successfully made BlackBerry Passport, PRIV and even KeyOne. The Passport being the best. So the technology works it's just that the quality didn't do justice to it.

I will be most disappointed if Key³ comes with no capacitive keyboard or gestures. Tbh we're in essence are very picky. Android as a whole doesn't work well with the gestures and physical keyboard on the phone, and yet BlackBerry has delivered it to be working fine. They have done the hard yards and there's no point going back now. They have developed a set of tools within the Android platform that is delivering. I remember in PRIV days, you weren't able to swipe in every app for instance.

BlackBerry just needs to either fix the issues for KEY² or just let us know that it's something they can't and it's as good as it gets.

Similarly Camera for example with all hardware is just nonexistent. It doesn't mean they will give up on it in next phones.

[conite]

BlackBerry just needs to either fix the issues for KEY² or just let us know that it's something they can't and it's as good as it gets.

I have used several KEY² devices, and never noticed the problem. Perhaps it only exposes itself when typed on a certain way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TheBond]

I have used several KEY² devices, and never noticed the problem. Perhaps it only exposes itself when typed on a certain way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The problem is there for sure. BlackBerry has already acknowledged the issue.

It could be related to the typing style and how much you use certain things. It sure does expose itself at times when it matters the most. Thankfully we have smart undo shortcut to recover data when typing long responses

[RK_BB]

The lower spec certainly makes up for the difference in price but I think that the capacitive keyboard is a last minute thought in the wake of the KEY² capacitive keyboard issues.

Again, just my personal take on the issue and why it was excluded in the LE.

[The_Passporter]

Coming from the Passport and now using the BlackBerry virtual keyboard on my Oneplus 3T I will not go without capacitive.
I was so disappointed in the capacitive response in the KEY2 that I sold it right away. I will not accept a half baked effort at full price. Like you said we buy it for the physical keyboard and the capacitive touch and even though the phone was great otherwise I could not turn a blind eye.

If BlackBerry Mobile can make a keyboard in the KEY3 on par with the Passport or even the Keyone I would be accepting but the KEY2 does not match either.

I've tested several KEY2 's with the same results. And the spacebar was WEAK!

[conite]

The lower spec certainly makes up for the difference in price but I think that the capacitive keyboard is a last minute thought in the wake of the KEY² capacitive keyboard issues.

Again, just my personal take on the issue and why it was excluded in the LE.

But the device was certified in November of 2017.

[RK_BB]

But the device was certified in November of 2017.

Even if the device was certified in Nov. 2017, I believe that last minute change of spec could have been done.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[conite]

Even if the device was certified in Nov. 2017, I believe that last minute change of spec could have been done.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Capacitive touch is just too important as a differentiating factor, that I can't imagine it EVER would have been on the LE.

[RK_BB]

Capacitive touch is just too important as a differentiating factor, that I can't imagine it EVER would have been on the LE.

I see. So your point of view is lower spec is not enough to create a substantial differentiating factor; yes?

While it might be true I can find other ways to create further differentiation like lower spec camera, no speed key, no Convenience Key etc.

I know and respect that you don't experience the keyboard "ghost" but I can only tell you that for users that do it makes typing unbearable at times.

My gut tells me this exclusion is of no coincidence but then again, it's just my gut!

[conite]

I see. So your point of view is lower spec is not enough to create a substantial differentiating factor; yes?

While it might be true I can find other ways to create further differentiation like lower spec camera, no speed key, no Convenience Key etc.

I know and respect that you don't experience the keyboard "ghost" but I can only tell you that for users that do it makes typing unbearable at times.

My gut tells me this exclusion is of no coincidence but then again, it's just my gut!

The bump in SoC and ram would never justify the extra $200. Capacitive is the main differentiator imo. I have little doubt in my mind.

[RK_BB]

The bump in SoC and ram would never justify the extra $200. Capacitive is the main differentiator imo. I have little doubt in my mind.

Let's put it this way, if I am running BlackBerry Mobile and I get the slightest glimpse of a keyboard issue that can't be easily resolved, excluding the feature from newer device launch is exactly what I am doing otherwise I am risking another KEYᵒⁿᵉ "screengate" issue.

[conite]

Let's put it this way, if I am running BlackBerry Mobile and I get the slightest glimpse of a keyboard issue that can't be easily resolved, excluding the feature from newer device launch is exactly what I am doing otherwise I am risking another KEYᵒⁿᵉ "screengate" issue.

That's a red herring though. The price delta makes it clear that the LE would have never got it anyway.

[RK_BB]

That's a red herring though. The price delta makes it clear that the LE would have never got it anyway.

Love Herring!

[conite]

Love Herring!

Ha. Me too!

But honestly, both the KEY² and KEY² LE final hardware appeared on GeekBench back in May - a month before the KEY² launch.

Production lines would have been setup months prior.

And the keyboard are different sizes, so they are not interchangeable.

[RK_BB]

Ha. Me too!

But honestly, both the KEY² and KEY² LE final hardware appeared on GeekBench back in May - a month before the KEY² launch.

Production lines would have been setup months prior.

And the keyboard are different sizes, so they are not interchangeable.

Well, this was just my theory, call it conspiracy theory derived from the frustration I have typing on a device that was marketed to provide a better typing experience than my KEYᵒⁿᵉ.

Let's hope that ABK892 clears this bug for some of us, otherwise a fantastic device and to be back to the topic at hand I don't see the point of removing this feature only to create a differentiating factor as this is a staple piece of BlackBerry.

I would work hard to find other areas to make for a $200 price difference but not in the keyboard department.

[the_boon]

Imagine if the LE actually has touch sensors but the feature will only be unlocked via an update once all bugs are resolved on the KEY2


Ok obviously this isn't true lol

[Livermore]

@Livermore

My thesis regarding the exclusion of the capacitive keyboard on the LE is entirely different than simply creating a consumer choice (a lost leader?).

IMO, and so as in the opinion of others, the capacitive keyboard on the KEY² is defective. I proved it by testing no less than 4 devices and have knowledge of well over affected 20 users. If you have patience to read through the thread that discuss the ghost in the keyboard you will see that this theory isn't too far fetched.

BlackBerry Mobile knows that physically not all PKB's assembled alike and are trying to make software adjustments to compensate for bugs derived from lack of physical manufacturing consistently.

They simply avoided taking this manufacturing risk with the LE and categorized the exclusion of the feature as the reason for the lower price point.

Excluding an already existing technology cannot save that much money to make up for a $200 difference in price; this is artificial.

Adding @Smokeaire @TheBond @Crusader03

/blackberry-key2-f472/physical-keyboard-use-randomly-activates-pointer-cursor-mode-issue-1155317/

This is the first post to widen my eyes. Thank you for you input.

I've never heard this opinion before and will read the linked thread.

The Key2 keyboard is defective? In what way? The capacitive features aren't working good/smooth? I'll take a look at that thread now. This is very interesting. I don't know if this is true or what it really means, but if true it seems like a logical case for the birth of the LE, sadly.

Posted via CB10

[Livermore]

Imagine if the LE actually has touch sensors but the feature will only be unlocked via an update once all bugs are resolved on the KEY2


Ok obviously this isn't true lol

We are going down the rabbit hole now lol

But the fact you can swiftly turn capacitive features off makes me wonder lol

Posted via CB10

[Livermore]

@RK_BB your theory I like best, even if it isn't the case.

I don't have the slightest idea how phone manufacturers cost/price the components, especially capacitive features on a BlackBerry.

I wonder.. is capacitive features + aluminum frame worth $200 premium?

Imagine how many lines of code has to be added to the device just for capacitive? Or maybe it isn't that difficult in 2019? Idk..

Whatever the case is.. I still am baffled at the decision BBMobile made for the LE..

Why doesn't the KeyOne have an LE?

Also, if the Key Thrice doesn't have an LE then this theory will forever be unsolved lol

Posted via CB10

[conite]

@RK_BB your theory I like best, even if it isn't the case.

I don't have the slightest idea how phone manufacturers cost/price the components, especially capacitive features on a BlackBerry.

I wonder.. is capacitive features + aluminum frame worth $200 premium?

Imagine how many lines of code has to be added to the device just for capacitive? Or maybe it isn't that difficult in 2019? Idk..

Whatever the case is.. I still am baffled at the decision BBMobile made for the LE..

Why doesn't the KeyOne have an LE?

Also, if the Key Thrice doesn't have an LE then this theory will forever be unsolved lol

Posted via CB10

BBMo decided to widen the net with the KEY² by providing a higher and lower end device.

Memory, SoC, frame, AND capacitive account for the $200.

It's the keyboard HARDWARE that is more expensive with capacitive.

[The_Passporter]

I see. So your point of view is lower spec is not enough to create a substantial differentiating factor; yes?

While it might be true I can find other ways to create further differentiation like lower spec camera, no speed key, no Convenience Key etc.

I know and respect that you don't experience the keyboard "ghost" but I can only tell you that for users that do it makes typing unbearable at times.

My gut tells me this exclusion is of no coincidence but then again, it's just my gut!

I've always thought the same thing but I guess we may never know for certain.

[Livermore]

BBMo decided to widen the net with the KEY² by provide a higher and lower end device.

Memory, SoC, frame, AND capacitive account for the $200.

Makes economical sense.

Also, no wonder the KeyOne doesn't have an "LE" version as it was the first iteration of this series/model and they needed to test the waters. KeyOne was obviously a pretty big success in BlackBerry Mobiles terms thus the plan to issue a high-end and mid-range devices.

BlackBerry phones have always been pricey and rightfully so, so I understand to a degree. I still will never agree of opting out the capacitive. I'd sacrifice the fingerprint spacebar scanner and the speed key for capacitive swiping etc.. that's just my opinion. And I love the spacebar scanner, works flawlessly on my KeyOne.

Posted via CB10