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  1. tickerguy's Avatar
    Anyone confirm yet now that it's shipping and available?

    (Oh, and obviously hotspot too....)
    10-14-18 08:21 PM
  2. tickerguy's Avatar
    Sounds like nobody actually bought one in the US....
    10-16-18 07:24 PM
  3. CalSandi's Avatar
    Dual Sim has two separate IMEIS, and on IMS settings Voice over LTE is checked 'on'.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-18 12:55 AM
  4. tickerguy's Avatar
    If you turn on WFC and are on a WiFi network does it register and enable? (The easiest way to know on Oreo is that it will say "WiFi Call" although it also shows up on a drill-down menu for "Mobile Network".)

    If you can see the IMS VoLTE switch that's a good sign.....
    10-17-18 09:51 AM
  5. CalSandi's Avatar
    So no WFC. Network only allows 4G, tried to place a call connected to wireless without Sim and no go. Good things: space bar security sensor works great; keyboard is somewhat familiar for most BlackBerry pkb users; led notification can me modified; and I'm considering the possibilities for having 2 Sim cards with separate IMEIs. Camera has not been adequately tested. And I know I'm going to miss my BlackBerry assistant when driving.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-18 07:59 PM
  6. tickerguy's Avatar
    You have to have a carrier sim in the phone for WiFi calling to work as that's where the seed data comes from for the IPSec keying.

    You should be able to turn off the mobile network (with a T-Mobile SIM in the phone) and yet still be able to make calls (and send/receive SMS) provided you're on a WiFi network; in addition you should be able to see the options for WiFi calling preference (and whether it's connected) in the Mobile Network tab under settings.
    Last edited by tickerguy; 10-18-18 at 08:43 AM.
    10-18-18 08:19 AM
  7. RadioTech's Avatar
    You have to have a carrier sim in the phone for WiFi calling to work as that's where the seed data comes from for the IPSec keying.

    You should be able to turn off the mobile network (with a T-Mobile SIM in the phone) and yet still be able to make calls (and send/receive SMS) provided you're on a WiFi network; in addition you should be able to see the options for WiFi calling preference (and whether it's connected) in the Mobile Network tab under settings.
    I posted in the Verizon experience thread that I had my T-Mobile sim installed and wifi calling DOES NOT work on the Key2 LE model BBE100-5
    10-20-18 03:19 PM
  8. tickerguy's Avatar
    Well that kills it for me... No $ale and T-Mobile does NOT explicitly white list or prohibit enhanced services on devices they don't sell like AT&T does either. You just have to follow the rules. This is probably the user agent string issue and again TCL got cute and thus it won't register.

    inexcusable for a North American device.
    10-20-18 03:45 PM
  9. RadioTech's Avatar
    Well that kills it for me... No $ale and T-Mobile does NOT explicitly white list or prohibit enhanced services on devices they don't sell like AT&T does either. You just have to follow the rules. This is probably the user agent string issue and again TCL got cute and thus it won't register.

    inexcusable for a North American device.
    Yes it is on TCL end. On my Key2 I downgraded to ABA044 and wifi calling works fine.
    I talked to T-Mobile Level 2 support and it is all TCL. Don't buy the LE if you want wifi calling.
    10-20-18 04:08 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yes it is on TCL end. On my Key2 I downgraded to ABA044 and wifi calling works fine.
    I talked to T-Mobile Level 2 support and it is all TCL. Don't buy the LE if you want wifi calling.
    For now. It’s moving towards specific carrier sold devices on all carriers for enhanced features. If you want enhanced calling features, you’ll be expected to buy Flagships. Eventually, mid-tier hardware from top brands won’t get enhanced calling. It’s polite incentive or encouragement to only buy premium line of any OEM if you want premium services. T-Mobile will be no different. Part of Sprint acquisition is 100% of Sprint customers are used to buying carrier locked devices that can’t be used on any other carriers even if unlocked.....
    10-20-18 05:01 PM
  11. tickerguy's Avatar
    Meh. T-Mobile has never done that in the past (they were, for a long time, the ONLY carrier that didn't blackball tethering as an example) -- we shall see if they change after they swallow Sprint.

    I love such prognostications; Verizon and AT&T have always played these games and T-Mobile, historically, typically has not. There have been a few exceptions here and there -- but the key word there is "few".
    10-20-18 06:52 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Meh. T-Mobile has never done that in the past (they were, for a long time, the ONLY carrier that didn't blackball tethering as an example) -- we shall see if they change after they swallow Sprint.

    I love such prognostications; Verizon and AT&T have always played these games and T-Mobile, historically, typically has not. There have been a few exceptions here and there -- but the key word there is "few".
    The benefits of them buying their primary competitor along with the need to pay for the acquisition while the solution is already provided. It's not as if doing exactly what I'm describing could hurt them in any way. It's not as if there's another carrier to pickup the old strategy.
    10-20-18 08:42 PM
  13. tickerguy's Avatar
    It's not as if doing exactly what I'm describing could hurt them in any way.
    That's flat-out false. An awful lot of people (myself included) are on their service for that exact reason, so if they do it that evaporates instantly.

    Sold to you.
    10-20-18 09:11 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That's flat-out false. An awful lot of people (myself included) are on their service for that exact reason, so if they do it that evaporates instantly.

    Sold to you.
    How does that hurt them? Where can you go? That's whole point of two merging.

    For most of country, your choice will be AT&T, VZW or TMO. Are you telling me you'd leave for AT&T or VZW? They're already giving preferential treatment with specific OEMs and carrier sold devices.
    10-20-18 09:13 PM
  15. tickerguy's Avatar
    How does that hurt them? Where can you go? That's whole point of two merging.

    For most of country, your choice will be AT&T, VZW or TMO. Are you telling me you'd leave for AT&T or VZW? They're already giving preferential treatment with specific OEMs and carrier sold devices.
    Of could I would leave if there was no reason to stay. Since I will NOT buy a $1,000 phone T-Mobile's attraction, should they try to force me to do it to have WFC and VoLTE, just went "poof" like a fart in a church.

    Then it simply becomes a dollars question -- if NONE of the carriers permit enhanced services except when you let them rape you for $1,000 on a device that is marked up 50%+ and they're splitting the kickback with the manufacturer then I will choose "I don't give a damn", not buy said device from ANY of them and whatever the cheapest option is I'll use and move between carriers based on who's cheaper this month or next.

    A BIG part of T-Mobile's attraction is that they don't pull that crap. If they start then all of those who came to them for that reason will leave.
    Jake2826 likes this.
    10-20-18 09:21 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Of could I would leave if there was no reason to stay. Since I will NOT buy a $1,000 phone T-Mobile's attraction, should they try to force me to do it to have WFC and VoLTE, just went "poof" like a fart in a church.

    Then it simply becomes a dollars question -- if NONE of the carriers permit enhanced services except when you let them rape you for $1,000 on a device that is marked up 50%+ and they're splitting the kickback with the manufacturer then I will choose "I don't give a damn", not buy said device from ANY of them and whatever the cheapest option is I'll use and move between carriers based on who's cheaper this month or next.

    A BIG part of T-Mobile's attraction is that they don't pull that crap. If they start then all of those who came to them for that reason will leave.
    Exactly. But all three carriers basically compete in three distinct segments, carrier postpaid, carrier prepaid and subsidiary brand prepaid. In each category, TMO and Sprint have staked out the 80% of the price for 80% of the coverage space. I'm not speaking to promos or any other special packages. Once promos end, this is basic pricing on average with their overall business model.

    Sprint and TMO are the only two carriers that have needed to fight on price and free premium services and have lost money doing so. Merger is being allowed because Sprint will go under if merger doesn't happen. My point is that TMO/Sprint have run the numbers already. They know you have nowhere to go but up regarding pricing with AT&T or VZW. TMO and Sprint already sell hardware, it's the path of least resistance. That's why I say BYOD has been more gimmick than anything else.
    10-20-18 09:34 PM
  17. RadioTech's Avatar
    The point is if Blackberry Mobile / TCL wants to sell their phones to us then they need to pay the carriers to have the enhanced service enable for us. If not then no one will buy their phones and they will fail. So if you need WiFi calling on T-Mobile don't buy a Key2 or Key2 LE. If you want texting on Verizon don't buy a Key2 LE. Guess we are going to be forced to buy an Iphone or Samsung.
    10-20-18 10:44 PM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The point is if Blackberry Mobile / TCL wants to sell their phones to us then they need to pay the carriers to have the enhanced service enable for us. If not then no one will buy their phones and they will fail. So if you need WiFi calling on T-Mobile don't buy a Key2 or Key2 LE. If you want texting on Verizon don't buy a Key2 LE. Guess we are going to be forced to buy an Iphone or Samsung.
    This matter is beyond control of BBMo/TCL and other middle to smaller OEMs currently selling outside carriers. Just look at the KEYone as perfect example. At 2017 introduction, the device was released GSM locked, AT&T, CDMA locked, Sprint, GSM unlocked, T-Mobile and CDMA unlocked, VZW, in the USA. What happened to Oreo update on either CDMA device? More importantly, carrier locked devices weren't all supporting WFC. Then with Oreo, VoLTE support was dropped.

    It's not that OEMs won't pay to certify devices. It's that carriers don't want all devices, carrier locked or factory unlocked, accessing enhanced calling features. Carriers are using the current regulatory infrastructure and rules to encourage the purchase of premium level devices from carriers.

    Essential got the PH1 certified, how about the PH2? The carriers will keep raising the barrier to network entry by raising the expense of certification. The carriers have to find new profit centers to replace the old profit centers that don't exist anymore plus find ways to provide growth. The mobile space has matured and saturated.

    At the end of the day, AT&T or VZW haven't worried about T-Mobile or Sprint lower prices too much and those companies have almost gone bankrupt with their pricing. Merging two companies is essentially waving the white flag and joining the Big Two and their regulator approved business practices.
    10-21-18 09:38 AM
  19. tickerguy's Avatar
    Again -- meh.

    T-Mobile's bid for Sprint is at what amounts to a fire-sale price. I looked at Sprint before Softbank got involved, made a bunch of money on the stock price's rise but bailed as soon as that deal was announced because Softbank's accounting was too opaque to figure out whether that was value creation or destruction. It turned out to be the latter.

    T-Mobile gets customer base out of the deal and cheap midband spectrum, both of which are worth something. They will also get some defections since existing Sprint handsets are worthless on T-Mobile's infrastructure (especially low-band which is where all the good penetration spectrum is outside of major cities) and those customers will have to buy something (much like occurred with Cingular Blue/Orange.) Some will stay, some will go. But there's always an *** for every seat at the right price and this deal looks like that sort of price to me.

    T-Mobile is not losing money at present -- to the contrary their present P/E is about 13 and price:book is 2.5. The latter is higher than I'd like to see (I don't consider them a good investment due to execution risk and ~12% operating margin, which isn't awful but also isn't great -- it's simply a matter of their stock price being too high)

    I certainly don't like their debt:equity ratio either but the fact is that their levered free cash flow and operating cash flow are both positive, so at present they are definitely not burning money (unlike Netflix, for example, which has a negative operating cash flow and IS burning money -- or, God forbid, Tesla which is negative on BOTH measures)

    Opinions differ on T-Mobile's forward prospects to make a profit but a statement that they're burning cash (losing money) in the present tense is a flat-out falsehood -- you either don't know how to read a set of financials or you haven't bothered to look. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but there is only one set of financial facts with publicly owned and quarterly-reporting firms.
    Last edited by tickerguy; 10-21-18 at 02:09 PM.
    hxh145 and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    10-21-18 01:57 PM
  20. scrannel's Avatar
    The option to WFC on T-Mo is their "New Digits". It allows what is essentially, WFC. Though I have WFC on my Motion at T-Mo, I use Digits on my Lenovo, SIM-free tablet (and have used on my Motion), and it works quite well.
    10-23-18 08:55 AM
  21. tickerguy's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile Support has confirmed that WFC does not work on the Key2LE. I've informed them that if they want to sell me one they need to do what is necessary to fix that.
    10-23-18 10:15 AM

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