08-22-19 06:01 PM
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  1. the_boon's Avatar
    Are they still not better off waiting, as they themselves suggested, until they have something compelling to offer? What good would a slightly upgraded KEY² do today? You actually want people to BUY the next device.

    And, really a separate topic, what effort do you put into the US market today if the demand for the KEY² has pretty much dried up?
    Yeah, doesn't seem like the slab manufacturers are waiting for a "compelling upgrade".
    They keep on churning out slabs which are extremely similar to their previous iteration.

    Everyone knows the S9 was a filler until they got the S10 ready, as it brought almost nothing to the table compared to the S8.
    RK_BB and John Albert like this.
    07-21-19 08:02 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Yeah, doesn't seem like the slab manufacturers are waiting for a "compelling upgrade".
    They keep on churning out slabs which are extremely similar to their previous iteration.

    Everyone knows the S9 was a filler until they got the S10 ready, as it brought almost nothing to the table compared to the S8.
    There are hundreds of millions of people at various stages of Galaxy device lifecycle ownership - with about 33% of them ready to upgrade each and every year.

    TCL needs to a significant portion of KEY² users to upgrade to make this work, so what would be your plan?
    07-21-19 08:15 PM
  3. jeremyr4's Avatar
    Are they still not better off waiting, as they themselves suggested, until they have something compelling to offer? What good would a slightly upgraded KEY² do today? You actually want people to BUY the next device.

    And, really a separate topic, what effort do you put into the US market today if the demand for the KEY² has pretty much dried up?
    Conite, I completely understand your logic from a sales perspective but you are missing the point. I haven't ever worked in marketing for a handset manufacturer but, having worked for Disney HQ, GM HQ, Toyota HQ, all in management roles in marketing, I can tell you that there are MANY factors that go into keeping a handset active/in stock while you are waiting to launch a new one, regardless of the sales volume. Once you lose a spot on a shelf/website, it's HARD to get back. Manufactures often have to pay "slotting fees" just to get access to a shelf/space, let alone convince the retailer to stock the item given that retailers are in the business of managing their stock to ensure that they keep what sells and get rid of what doesn't due to limit space whether it's shelf space or a website page. Note that it's entirely possible that the Key2 sales were so low that Amazon and BB both decided not to sell the Key2 or Key2 LE, although that is suspect here because of the timing being about the same when they dropped from both retailers. It's almost certainly TCL that pulled the plug on the US market here.

    There are many other factors that come into play here, including maintaining a relationship with a retailer (vs having to go back in and plead your case for them to stock the next handset when it is launched), mandatory co-marketing fees and agreements, etc, etc. I am honestly not an expert in handset retailing but, between how marketing generally works, the way that newer replacement handsets of previous generations pretty much always replace an old that is stocked until the new one is released (for the reasons I mentioned and many more), and the fact that both Amazon and BB dropped the Key2 at the same time, it's almost certain that BB will not be making a Key3. Of course, it's not impossible and frankly I would LOVE for them to release one, as I really like my Key2 LE, but if I am being realistic here I would say the odds are certainly less than 10% and likely less than 5% based on how retail works and what has transpired.

    Bottom line is that it's not just about sales - there is a lot more that goes into the thought process of keeping a handset stocked at retail in spite of very poor sales (if the retailer allows you to do so).
    07-21-19 08:52 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Conite, I completely understand your logic from a sales perspective but you are missing the point. I haven't ever worked in marketing for a handset manufacturer but, having worked for Disney HQ, GM HQ, Toyota HQ, all in management roles in marketing, I can tell you that there are MANY factors that go into keeping a handset active/in stock while you are waiting to launch a new one, regardless of the sales volume. Once you lose a spot on a shelf/website, it's HARD to get back. Manufactures often have to pay "slotting fees" just to get access to a shelf/space, let alone convince the retailer to stock the item given that retailers are in the business of managing their stock to ensure that they keep what sells and get rid of what doesn't due to limit space whether it's shelf space or a website page. Note that it's entirely possible that the Key2 sales were so low that Amazon and BB both decided not to sell the Key2 or Key2 LE, although that is suspect here because of the timing being about the same when they dropped from both retailers. It's almost certainly TCL that pulled the plug on the US market here.

    There are many other factors that come into play here, including maintaining a relationship with a retailer (vs having to go back in and plead your case for them to stock the next handset when it is launched), mandatory co-marketing fees and agreements, etc, etc. I am honestly not an expert in handset retailing but, between how marketing generally works, the way that newer replacement handsets of previous generations pretty much always replace an old that is stocked until the new one is released (for the reasons I mentioned and many more), and the fact that both Amazon and BB dropped the Key2 at the same time, it's almost certain that BB will not be making a Key3. Of course, it's not impossible and frankly I would LOVE for them to release one, as I really like my Key2 LE, but if I am being realistic here I would say the odds are certainly less than 10% and likely less than 5% based on how retail works and what has transpired.

    Bottom line is that it's not just about sales - there is a lot more that goes into the thought process of keeping a handset stocked at retail in spite of very poor sales (if the retailer allows you to do so).
    Think of Amazon more as logistics manager of BBMo retail sales channel like Digital River used to be. Not exactly the same but with a similar relationship. When BBMo has more Key2 or a Key3, it will appear.

    Most likely not economically sensible to pay Amazon slotting cost below certain point in USA or certain other regions..
    07-21-19 08:59 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    Think of Amazon more as logistics manager of BBMo retail sales channel like Digital River used to be. Not exactly the same but with a similar relationship. When BBMo has more Key2 or a Key3, it will appear.
    My thoughts exactly.
    07-21-19 09:08 PM
  6. curves2000's Avatar
    My thoughts exactly.

    Whatever the end result is, if BlackBerry Mobile does decide to stock more Key 2 devices or launch a KEY 3, this whole lack of communication can't be good for anybody sales.

    The BlackBerry userbase, fanbase, addressable market or whatever isn't exactly huge. A large percentage of the hardcore fans are active on Crackberry. At the very least it would make business sense to actually communicate what the hell is going on so people who want to spend money aren't jumping over hopes to pay for devices they need, want and love.

    How much hassle does a BlackBerry phone need to be? In business it's always easier to grab the low hanging fruit like the diehards, I don't know why it would be so hard to get answers unless it's gone sideways.

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-19 10:11 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Whatever the end result is, if BlackBerry Mobile does decide to stock more Key 2 devices or launch a KEY 3, this whole lack of communication can't be good for anybody sales.

    The BlackBerry userbase, fanbase, addressable market or whatever isn't exactly huge. A large percentage of the hardcore fans are active on Crackberry. At the very least it would make business sense to actually communicate what the hell is going on so people who want to spend money aren't jumping over hopes to pay for devices they need, want and love.

    How much hassle does a BlackBerry phone need to be? In business it's always easier to grab the low hanging fruit like the diehards, I don't know why it would be so hard to get answers unless it's gone sideways.

    Posted via CB10
    The general manager of BBMo already publicly stated at MWC last February that a new device won't appear until the end of the year at the earliest. That's about as much a plan as you'll ever get from TCL.

    If anyone can't wait until the new year, or doesn't trust TCL, then so be it - grab something else.
    07-21-19 10:49 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The general manager of BBMo already publicly stated at MWC last February that a new device won't appear until the end of the year at the earliest. That's about as much a plan as you'll ever get from TCL.

    If anyone can't wait until the new year, or doesn't trust TCL, then so be it - grab something else.
    If they had any hope at gaining some enterprise business....

    I look at Verizon just getting the KEY2 LE... and then stock drying up. Bare minimum they need to do another batch of LE for Verizon.
    07-22-19 08:07 AM
  9. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    We just don't understand it at all.

    TCL has just developed a new marketing strategy in which they let the water out of the pool and hope that next year a fool will still jump in.
    John Albert and elfabio80 like this.
    07-22-19 08:29 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    We just don't understand it at all.

    TCL has just developed a new marketing strategy in which they let the water out of the pool and hope that next year a fool will still jump in.
    Or they just empty the pool for 6 months when they know no one is using it.
    07-22-19 09:05 AM
  11. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    During summer? Haha.
    07-22-19 09:38 AM
  12. conite's Avatar
    During summer? Haha.
    07-22-19 09:47 AM
  13. shadowcalling's Avatar
    If they had any hope at gaining some enterprise business....

    I look at Verizon just getting the KEY2 LE... and then stock drying up. Bare minimum they need to do another batch of LE for Verizon.
    I waited forever for the LE to be available on Verizon Enterprise accounts. I put my order in the day it was announced and they told me it is currently on backorder. I'm beyond frustrated and currently holding out for the unihertz titan hoping this actually comes to market
    07-22-19 02:20 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If they had any hope at gaining some enterprise business....

    I look at Verizon just getting the KEY2 LE... and then stock drying up. Bare minimum they need to do another batch of LE for Verizon.
    If anyone knows anything, it’s VZW and the NA silence could be at their request. BBMo priority to NA was and is carrier sales, period and that’s it.
    07-22-19 03:50 PM
  15. WaterTower's Avatar
    Amazon like eBay or other Web 2.0 distribution long evolved from traditional retailer or distribution partner. I seriously doubt that BBMo has the same deal as the Android/iOS proprietary and flagship OEMs have. I’m pretty sure it’s more similar to a logistics retailer type relationship. With that, product will simply come and go based on supply and demand.

    In the USA, carrier partners are the only relationships that matter before any others can really be developed. The KEYone has AT&T while the Key2 LE has VZW finally.

    Still, I don’t get all the lamenting for the Key2 a year after introduction. It’s been available for purchase forever as long as you paid full retail. Small discount were sometimes available. Most impressive was that it held it’s pricing..
    I bought one of the last key2 le's from bestbuy, so I am definitely late to the party. I was holding out for a discount, but when they started to sell out, I jumped. My phone should be delivered tomorrow
    the_boon and Jake2826 like this.
    07-22-19 05:22 PM
  16. the_boon's Avatar
    I bought one of the last key2 le's from bestbuy, so I am definitely late to the party. I was holding out for a discount, but when they started to sell out, I jumped. My phone should be delivered tomorrow
    Congrats on your Atomic LE!

    And apparently BBMo hates discounts so good thing you didn't wait for one.
    07-22-19 05:25 PM
  17. jeremyr4's Avatar
    Aside from the lack of communication being no good from anyone's perspective, the irony that someone like me would gladly buy 3-4 backup Key2 LE units if there was advanced notice that the production was going to end and that a Key3 wouldn't be available would actually result in additional sales.

    Meanwhile I now have to decide to whether to stock up a few backups with risk that it was a temporary blip, which I consider to be highly unlikely. The odds of them "keeping the pool empty" for a few months until the next model is very low... Not impossible but very low...

    Great job TCL and BB. Yet another reason for users to frustrated. Marketing 101 - you can only frustrate your loyal users for so long before they leave...
    07-22-19 06:43 PM
  18. Sigewif's Avatar
    Heck might be a good investment... buy them, mark them up $200 and resell them.
    People did that with the KEY2 silver. Dang. There are people who do that with limited edition athletic shoes as well. I read a whole article about it. It is actually a compliment if a product is sold that way. People with excess money are their target customers. Humans ... interesting creatures, we be.
    07-22-19 06:48 PM
  19. Sigewif's Avatar
    If it was over, I can't help but wonder why BBMo would keep active on social media such as Instagram where they advertise both the KEY2 and LE, on an almost daily basis.

    I don't buy the "they still have inventory to deplete but otherwise it's over".

    If it was over, why the continuous marketing ?
    Good question. Aren't they still available in other markets, like Australia?
    07-22-19 06:50 PM
  20. the_boon's Avatar
    Aside from the lack of communication being no good from anyone's perspective, the irony that someone like me would gladly buy 3-4 backup Key2 LE units if there was advanced notice that the production was going to end and that a Key3 wouldn't be available would actually result in additional sales.

    Meanwhile I now have to decide to whether to stock up a few backups with risk that it was a temporary blip, which I consider to be highly unlikely. The odds of them "keeping the pool empty" for a few months until the next model is very low... Not impossible but very low...

    Great job TCL and BB. Yet another reason for users to frustrated. Marketing 101 - you can only frustrate your loyal users for so long before they leave...
    If a big OEM like Samsung would have had a mid range PKB that they decided to launch right now, it would be game over for BBMo lol.

    I won't leave the brand until something better and with a PKB comes along.

    Till that day, I'll be waiting for the KEY3
    07-22-19 06:52 PM
  21. Sigewif's Avatar
    Yes................No Best buy is dropping the BlackBerry brand so they do not get stuck with stock like happened with the Priv. Than they have to sell them off.............The cell phone market is crowded and retail space is at a premium. The big guns get the space.......the Keyone/two...no.
    I was pretty annoyed with the local Best Buy. They had a slot to display the KEY2 LE and never put one there. It was empty for probably at least 2 months. I took photos to prove it. They had some in the store. In boxes. I wanted to check it out.
    07-22-19 06:53 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Aside from the lack of communication being no good from anyone's perspective, the irony that someone like me would gladly buy 3-4 backup Key2 LE units if there was advanced notice that the production was going to end and that a Key3 wouldn't be available would actually result in additional sales.

    Meanwhile I now have to decide to whether to stock up a few backups with risk that it was a temporary blip, which I consider to be highly unlikely. The odds of them "keeping the pool empty" for a few months until the next model is very low... Not impossible but very low...

    Great job TCL and BB. Yet another reason for users to frustrated. Marketing 101 - you can only frustrate your loyal users for so long before they leave...
    But what and why should they care if the devices are sold out already? You've stated yourself, not even discounts. There wasn't even a firesale....
    07-22-19 07:07 PM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    If anyone knows anything, it’s VZW and the NA silence could be at their request. BBMo priority to NA was and is carrier sales, period and that’s it.
    Do not confuse Canada with the USA ( not sure how that is possible) . My local Telus shop has working BlackBerry demo phones!
    07-22-19 07:26 PM
  24. Sigewif's Avatar
    I was pretty annoyed with the local Best Buy. They had a slot to display the KEY2 LE and never put one there. It was empty for probably at least 2 months. I took photos to prove it. They had some in the store. In boxes. I wanted to check it out.
    Here is what I saw at Best Buy, week after week. They didn't even have a photo of the device. It is a unique device in a sea of slabs and would have been an attention getter. HOW do people check it out when it isn't there and not even a photo is there. BlackBerry KEY2 LE was written in small print. Best Buy will stop selling BlackBerry Key devices soon.-img_20190420_1219212.jpg
    07-22-19 07:27 PM
  25. jeremyr4's Avatar
    But what and why should they care if the devices are sold out already? You've stated yourself, not even discounts. There wasn't even a firesale....
    They shouldn't care if they are done. As I stated before, if they AREN'T done in that they will be launching a Key3 then there are many reasons to care from a marketing perspective. But if the Key line is done in the US then they definitely shouldn't care.
    07-22-19 07:41 PM
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