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08-22-19 06:01 PM
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  1. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Are you aware of any breaches for said setup (iOS or Knox on a properly configured EMM)?

    What statistics do you have with regards to your "good portion of the consumer base" and "much of the enterprise base" statements?
    Off the top of my Google search head:

    https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-17/...ivilege-wp.pdf

    Do you have statistics as to your assertion that iOS and Knox are secure enough for all but the most extreme state-level players? I was assuming that was an opinion, but if you want to get into evidential battles (and I am permitted to do so) I will be happy to provide some if you have some as well (that can be attributed to third-party sources, not statements you've made yourself in other threads).
    07-23-19 05:56 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Off the top of my Google search head:

    https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-17/...ivilege-wp.pdf

    Do you have statistics as to your assertion that iOS and Knox are secure enough for all but the most extreme state-level players? I was assuming that was an opinion, but if you want to get into evidential battles (and I am permitted to do so) I will be happy to provide some if you have some as well (that can be attributed to third-party sources, not statements you've made yourself in other threads).
    From 2016, patched - and not on an EMM.

    The market has not requested another platform. It is entirely satisfied with what is available, and drove things to where they are now in fact.

    You're trying to invent a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    07-23-19 06:00 PM
  3. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    From 2016, patched - and not on an EMM.

    The market has not requested another platform. It is entirely satisfied with what is available, and drove things to where they are now in fact.

    You're trying to invent a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.
    It was on Knox, so unless you're saying Knox is not an EMM.....

    And again, that was just a quick search. If you really want to get into this and I'm permitted I'm sure I can find more.

    However, for someone who says they don't care what platform people use, you certainly seem to be reacting aggressively to what was just a suggestion on my part.

    The "market" has been dominated by Google and Apple for quite some time now, and to try and suggest that there is not A market (as opposed to "the" market, referring to the overall economic free market) for security-based products is simply wrong. I've already stated that I don't think there necessarily will be a breaking of the iOS/Android duopoly; just that there's money to be made here.
    Jake2826 likes this.
    07-23-19 06:07 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    It was on Knox, so unless you're saying Knox is not an EMM.....
    Knox is not an EMM. It is a hardened OS with a workspace container.

    Knox integrates with BlackBerry UEM and other EMM solutions.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    07-23-19 07:06 PM
  5. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Knox is not an EMM.
    I think we're down to splitting hairs on that topic, but in any case, whether or not there are breaches on Knox and EMM tools was not my primary point, so I'll let it go.
    07-23-19 07:12 PM
  6. Munchkinguy's Avatar
    The only thing I can take is that if BlackBerry Mobile was still going to sell product, they would have product to sell one way or another.

    If a steakhouse got a deal on some top quality steaks in a small quantity, they would market the steaks and sell. If the demand lead to the steaks being sold out and other cuts of beef and meat being sold out, would you expect the steakhouse to continue getting new meat?

    If all that was left at the steakhouse was soup, salad & bread, would it be a steakhouse?
    If an ice cream parlour closes during the winter, does that mean it won't sell ice cream the next summer?
    curves2000 likes this.
    07-23-19 08:11 PM
  7. Sigewif's Avatar
    If an ice cream parlour closes during the winter, does that mean it won't sell ice cream the next summer?
    There lots of places like that, for example in tourist/vacation spots on the Pacific Coast. They are shut down all winter and are open from the spring to the autumn. For that matter, many of our accounts are seasonal like that. We sell products to these touristy places. In the winter it is as if they don't exist.
    07-23-19 09:20 PM
  8. tnewton3's Avatar
    Best Buy and Amazon having low or no stock doesn't necessarily mean the writing is on the wall in my opinion. Both retailers ordered limited stock in the beginning and then maybe a bigger order that sat and didn't sell. Maybe this is a sign of a new device being announced shortly and the retailers don't want to be stuck with stock when everyone starts waiting.

    Either way I have 3 family members all rocking the LE and loving it. If needed I'm sure we could find a way to get another device if/when needed.
    the_boon and Andrew Poderis like this.
    07-24-19 08:31 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Best Buy and Amazon having low or no stock doesn't necessarily mean the writing is on the wall in my opinion. Both retailers ordered limited stock in the beginning and then maybe a bigger order that sat and didn't sell. Maybe this is a sign of a new device being announced shortly and the retailers don't want to be stuck with stock when everyone starts waiting.

    Either way I have 3 family members all rocking the LE and loving it. If needed I'm sure we could find a way to get another device if/when needed.
    BBMo has said there wouldn't be a new device till next year.... they miss judged the window they'd need to sell of stock if that were the case.

    VZW just started selling the LE officially via Enterprise sales... but are out of stock with over a one months backorder.

    BBMo isn't making NA variants right now... maybe it's too costly with the whole trade war thing, I keep seeing where it is costing some companies like Roomba millions. Or maybe sales just aren't enough to support production of even one of those variants. Would seem like picking just one (slate KEY2 LE) could be possible....
    07-24-19 08:41 AM
  10. tnewton3's Avatar
    BBMo has said there wouldn't be a new device till next year.... they miss judged the window they'd need to sell of stock if that were the case.

    VZW just started selling the LE officially via Enterprise sales... but are out of stock with over a one months backorder.

    BBMo isn't making NA variants right now... maybe it's too costly with the whole trade war thing, I keep seeing where it is costing some companies like Roomba millions. Or maybe sales just aren't enough to support production of even one of those variants. Would seem like picking just one (slate KEY2 LE) could be possible....
    I would love to see a device announced within the next couple months with a first quarter of next year release. Announce a release date and hit it strong.
    07-24-19 08:49 AM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I would love to see a device announced within the next couple months with a first quarter of next year release. Announce a release date and hit it strong.
    I agree a simple update announcement about new hardware, would go a long way - maybe do it along with the PIE release for the KEY2 that should be coming up very soon. Actual lauch at MWC next year with sales starting right away (in key markets).

    Of course that won't help US customers... unless they are willing to produce a new batch of existing phones.
    07-24-19 09:00 AM
  12. John Albert's Avatar
    Could they alter the worldwide Key variants and make them compatible with the US networks standards?
    07-24-19 01:15 PM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Could they alter the worldwide Key variants and make them compatible with the US networks standards?
    It's a hardware thing... not a software thing.

    One would think a single chip would be the better way to go and just provision it via the factory firmware to match the market. But most cases it's actually different chips.
    07-24-19 01:26 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Well then we can say the same regarding many clues we take around here as to the future of the brand. Self-evident; I will remember the term for future use.
    The only assumption Conite is making is that TCL/BBMo management is making rational economic decisions, so the decisions themselves provide implicit information.

    If, on the other hand, you think the business decisions are random and irrational, then they imply nothing at all.

    I tend to agree with Conite's view that TCL is running the numbers and making economic decisions.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 07-24-19 at 02:09 PM.
    TgeekB likes this.
    07-24-19 01:44 PM
  15. ray689's Avatar
    The only assumption Conite is making is that TCL/BBMo management is making rational economic decisions, so the decisions themselves provide implicit information.

    If, on the other hand, you think the business decisions are random and irrational, then they imply nothing at all.

    I tend to agree with Conite's view that TCL is running the numbers and making economic decisions.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Right and some in here believe that economic decision is to fold up shop and get out of the game all together when it comes to BlackBerry devices. People just don't want to be caught in the same issue they were when BlackBerry did the same thing then promptly shut down hardware...which would not have been an overnight decision. They knew exactly what they were doing. . Companies aren't going to be open with that when they have product to sell yet. They want to maximize whatever they can now and the consumer is not really much of a concern.
    TgeekB likes this.
    07-24-19 02:25 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Right and some in here believe that economic decision is to fold up shop and get out of the game all together when it comes to BlackBerry devices. People just don't want to be caught in the same issue they were when BlackBerry did the same thing then promptly shut down hardware...which would not have been an overnight decision. They knew exactly what they were doing. . Companies aren't going to be open with that when they have product to sell yet. They want to maximize whatever they can now and the consumer is not really much of a concern.
    I think that anyone buying a BlackBerry devices (BB10 or Android) since 2014 certainly understands that there are no guarantees that BlackBerry or its partners will remain in the Handset manufacturing industry.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and elfabio80 like this.
    07-24-19 02:40 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Right and some in here believe that economic decision is to fold up shop and get out of the game all together when it comes to BlackBerry devices. People just don't want to be caught in the same issue they were when BlackBerry did the same thing then promptly shut down hardware...which would not have been an overnight decision. They knew exactly what they were doing. . Companies aren't going to be open with that when they have product to sell yet. They want to maximize whatever they can now and the consumer is not really much of a concern.
    Over the last few months, BBMo has been releasing new EU variants of its KEY² and KEY² LE devices (PRDs ending with -5xx) in order to comply with the new Google de-coupling rules there. There have been more added this week in fact.

    An odd move if they were planning to simply exit the business shortly.
    Last edited by conite; 07-24-19 at 02:58 PM.
    07-24-19 02:43 PM
  18. ray689's Avatar
    Over the last few months, BBMo has been releasing new EU variants of its KEY² and KEY² LE devices (PRDs ending with -5xx) in order to comply with the new Google de-coupling rules there. There have been more added this week in fact.

    An odd move if they were planning to simply exit the business shortly.
    Sort of as odd as releasing a Priv followed by DTEK devices? You don't think BlackBerry knew they would be exiting the handset business when the Priv was released? Come on now. As for what BlackBerry Mobile is doing right now, maybe its to move component inventory? Who knows. I'm just saying, the uncertainty is why people are thinking what they're thinking in these forums right now. You can be the eternal optimist all you want but with zero information to go on besides "smart business decisions" as you claim, people don't have much to go on. We saw those same "smart business decisions" in the past from BlackBerry themselves and it left people hanging. You can understand why some are hesitant to believe that things will move forward with BlackBerry handsets now.
    John Albert likes this.
    07-24-19 03:06 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Sort of as odd as releasing a Priv followed by DTEK devices? You don't think BlackBerry knew they would be exiting the handset business when the Priv was released? Come on now. As for what BlackBerry Mobile is doing right now, maybe its to move component inventory? Who knows. I'm just saying, the uncertainty is why people are thinking what they're thinking in these forums right now. You can be the eternal optimist all you want but with zero information to go on besides "smart business decisions" as you claim, well we saw those same "smart business decisions" in the past from BlackBerry themselves and it left people hanging. You can understand why some are hesitant to believe the things will move forward with BlackBerry handsets now.
    The DTEKs were a totally different business model from the Priv, and was another attempt at making devices work by subcontracting manufacturing AND design (out of kit parts) to another low-cost company.

    The hope was that the DTEK50, and its low price, would achieve the market penetration they needed.
    07-24-19 03:08 PM
  20. ray689's Avatar
    The DTEKs were a totally different business model than the Priv, and was another attempt at making devices work by subcontracting manufacturing AND design to another low-cost company.
    Yes I know that. BlackBerry's plan to exit the handset business likely came even before the Priv. The point is, this is he same song and dance as people have seen before. If you're right, I'll give you props but all signs are not pointing that way right now.
    07-24-19 03:10 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Yes I know that. BlackBerry's plan to exit the handset business likely came even before the Priv. The point is, this is he same song and dance as people have seen before. If you're right, I'll give you props but all signs are not pointing that way right now.
    I just think the added expense of producing an entire series of new devices at this stage would be bizarre if the business was on the verge of being shuttered. My thoughts anyway.
    07-24-19 03:16 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar
    I've never been around a company where any two people are in complete alignment on strategy. Companies are not these perfect creatures with a single mind knowing exactly what they want to do. Somebody within TCL thought it would be a good idea to start BBMo and make these deals with BB and build a new subbrand. That person or group may still be trying to make a go of it and prove some internal metrics that allows them to continue and maybe even make a Key3

    But whoever owns investment decisions above them may or may not know how much they will invest into another new phone or even how much they want to fund BBMo itself. It may be that BBMo has funding for some period of time and then that comes up for review/continuation at some point later. It all depends on how they govern such things in their company.

    So it may just be that they don't know what will happen. And the signals we see might just be the BBMo team itself trying to prove some traction in Japan or other markets to justify more funding/budget. Also it could be somebody with a marketing contract decides to ramp up some activity to make some money remaining on the contract/budget before BBMo goes away.
    07-24-19 03:38 PM
  23. ray689's Avatar
    I just think the added expense of producing an entire series of new devices at this stage would be bizarre if the business was on the verge of being shuttered. My thoughts anyway.
    PRIV

    But really. Those expenses likely are much less (production lines etc already in place) then being left with unsold components, etc. My thoughts on that.
    07-24-19 03:43 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    PRIV

    But really. Those expenses likely are much less (production lines etc already in place) then being left with unsold components, etc. My thoughts on that.
    I think their super-tightly-controlled supply wouldn't lead to excess inventory. They seem to build in an almost JiT way.
    07-24-19 03:56 PM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I just think the added expense of producing an entire series of new devices at this stage would be bizarre if the business was on the verge of being shuttered. My thoughts anyway.
    Even TCL has to commit to component suppliers...

    In the end we'll have to wait and see... just poor communications if they are doing business as normal.
    07-24-19 03:59 PM
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