[Vistaus]

The Dev model is simply a developer prototype not a separate model.

I know, but conite literally said that they never released a Dev phone on the previous page... Released to developers is still released, but he doesn't seem to think so.

[Vistaus]

Um, no. He was corroborating my post that there WAS a pkb dev phone.

But neither dev phones were "released" to the public. They were provided to developers.

I never said they were released to the public, they were released to developers, but you said to me that they weren't released at all. And that's wrong. Released to developers is still released.

[conite]

I never said they were released to the public, they were released to developers, but you said to me that they weren't released at all. And that's wrong. Released to developers is still released.

Read my post again.

[Vistaus]

Read my post again.

You literally said "They never released any dev phone". Which is wrong because they released it to developers.

[conite]

You literally said "They never released any dev phone". Which is wrong because they released it to developers.

I said they never "released" any dev phone, and that there also was a pkb dev device.

In any event, my message should be clear to you now - the main point being they also had a pkb dev device.

[Chuck Finley69]

Then why was the first Dev phone all-touch and they never released a PKB Dev phone? If they were focusing on PKB, you'd think they would have released a PKB Dev phone too.

This is where all the confusion started. PKB and VKB developed simultaneously. The Q10 PKB release was delayed to force Z10 into carrier pipeline despite carrier resistance. You don't really think a company built around iconic PKB really didn't forsee the loyalist support for the Q line. BB was desperately grasping for the formers users already gone with the Z line knowing their OS and VKB hardware solved a problem that only existed for BB at that point.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

This is where all the confusion started. PKB and VKB developed simultaneously. The Q10 PKB release was delayed to force Z10 into carrier pipeline despite carrier resistance. You don't really think a company built around iconic PKB really didn't forsee the loyalist support for the Q line. BB was desperately grasping for the formers users already gone with the Z line knowing their OS and VKB hardware solved a problem that only existed for BB at that point.

Well they didn't foresee that the loyalists would want a toolbar and keyboard shortcuts....

[bb10adopter111]

The Z10 was released before the Q10 intentionally because at time BB was going for a brand re-imaging with a new OS and the VKB demonstrated the new contemporary brand.

The carriers, which BB had kept partly on their side, didn’t care for BB VKB since over five years BB was synonymous with PKB and previous BB VKB had failed miserably in the Storm and 9850/9860 line. BB used the Q10 to “encourage” to carriers to support the Z10 introduction. It was the only leverage BB had left with carriers at time. When Z10 failed and Q10 didn’t sell much better, it’s why the Z30 didn’t get full carrier support and there wasn’t a Z50 later. The Leap wasn’t carrier supported and DTEK neither.

The Z10 was the point everyone figured out that BB=PKB in consumer mindset.

That's pretty much how I remember it. I wanted a Q10 but needed to replace a dying Bold 9700 so bought the Z10 at launch, even though I didn't care for slab phones. In fact, based on a horrible experience with an iPhone for six months in 2012-13, I thought I'd hate the Z10!

But the BlackBerry VKB and gestures totally hooked me. By the time the Q10 was released, I loved my Z10. Still do.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[gjh1978]

I still love my Bold 9700. IMO the best BlackBerry ever.

My favorite ones were/are:

9700
9000
9900
Torch 9810
Q10
Key2

[Gene Fells]

The SE did sell easily million or so at the beginning using old 5/5s casing. Why discontinued? Falling demand to point not worth to produce anymore. Perhaps the SE was to get rid of old casing inventory...

Strong rumours are that the smaller SE form factor will be making a comeback soon. Each time SE appeared in stores it sold out quickly. There is a demand for smaller, truly mobile devices that are pocketable.

It may require apple to once again bring something to the market first before one or more android OEMs follow.

[Vistaus]

Strong rumours are that the smaller SE form factor will be making a comeback soon. Each time SE appeared in stores it sold out quickly. There is a demand for smaller, truly mobile devices that are pocketable.

It may require apple to once again bring something to the market first before one or more android OEMs follow.

Is there a market for relatively cheap, pocketable devices or for relatively cheap, pocketable Apple devices?

[Troy Tiscareno]

If I recall correctly Chen said at the time he needed at least a million units sold of the PRIV to stay in hardware.

Chen answered that question 3 different times over the years. When it was all BB10 devices, the number was 10M annually. When it was a mix of BB10 and Android, it dropped to 5M, and when it was all Android, it dropped to 3M.

I'm not sure that he ever mentioned numbers for a specific model because it was always the total number of annual sales that mattered to justify staying in hardware.

[the_boon]

Strong rumours are that the smaller SE form factor will be making a comeback soon. Each time SE appeared in stores it sold out quickly. There is a demand for smaller, truly mobile devices that are pocketable.

It may require apple to once again bring something to the market first before one or more android OEMs follow.

If one's gonna type on glass, its much much more comfortable to do it on a larger slab.
Since typing on a flat piece of glass is inaccurate by nature, having larger glass keys helps to make up for it.

Typing on a tiny pocketable slab is an absolute nightmare, and yes even with SwiftKey and swiping.

[anon(10562251)]

Strong rumours are that the smaller SE form factor will be making a comeback soon. Each time SE appeared in stores it sold out quickly. There is a demand for smaller, truly mobile devices that are pocketable.

It may require apple to once again bring something to the market first before one or more android OEMs follow.

Probably the smaller price tag people will find most appealing though, just as with the SE.

[Gene Fells]

Is there a market for relatively cheap, pocketable devices or for relatively cheap, pocketable Apple devices?

I think there is a market for pocketable high specced devices, regardless of OS. The sub 5 inch form factor is non existent now. People are forced to choose large or larger.

[Gene Fells]

If one's gonna type on glass, its much much more comfortable to do it on a larger slab.
Since typing on a flat piece of glass is inaccurate by nature, having larger glass keys helps to make up for it.

Typing on a tiny pocketable slab is an absolute nightmare, and yes even with SwiftKey and swiping.

I have owned iphones back to the original and never considered typing on the original size difficult. The new tall narrow aspects of 21:9 are super narrow and may come close to the original width of the iphones.

I also owned a Nokia 1520 and this dwarfed my iPhone. The typing experience was better but not because of the size. The VKB on win 8.1 was far superior to apple's offering and to all offerings in the android world.

IMHO the most optimal size would be 5 inch / minimal bezels / 16:9 aspect.

[bb10adopter111]

If one's gonna type on glass, its much much more comfortable to do it on a larger slab.
Since typing on a flat piece of glass is inaccurate by nature, having larger glass keys helps to make up for it.

Typing on a tiny pocketable slab is an absolute nightmare, and yes even with SwiftKey and swiping.

Funny, I've been doing it for six years on my Z10, and it's my favorite typing experience on any phone ever. So, I can't agree with you.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Thud Hardsmack]

If one's gonna type on glass, its much much more comfortable to do it on a larger slab.
Since typing on a flat piece of glass is inaccurate by nature, having larger glass keys helps to make up for it.

Typing on a tiny pocketable slab is an absolute nightmare, and yes even with SwiftKey and swiping.

It's not the size of the screen, it's the keyboard. I use the same keyboard on every device and screen size doesn't matter. That being said, I do enjoy having 6.4" over 4.7" just for the sheer amount of content displayed, which is why I gave up having a PKB in the first place.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I think there is a market for pocketable high specced devices, regardless of OS. The sub 5 inch form factor is non existent now. People are forced to choose large or larger.

It's sorta why Verizon had their new PALM phone built. First they imagined it only as a companion device, but it has since moved over to being a standalone device. Might be too small.... have to see if it's a one and done, or if they commission another.

[Chuck Finley69]

Strong rumours are that the smaller SE form factor will be making a comeback soon. Each time SE appeared in stores it sold out quickly. There is a demand for smaller, truly mobile devices that are pocketable.

It may require apple to once again bring something to the market first before one or more android OEMs follow.

Apple can bring a form back if the small percentage of people demanding are enough to be profitable. It also has scale for any tooling costs and could even still have more unused casings left.

BBMo just doesn’t have any scale from any direction to benefit the same way. It suffers from complete niche status. Even it’s OEM status requires JIT small batch manufacturing strategy for best chance at profitability. I support the BBMo/TCL strategy but it’s limited use.

[Bbnivende]

Apple can bring a form back if the small percentage of people demanding are enough to be profitable. It also has scale for any tooling costs and could even still have more unused casings left.

BBMo just doesn’t have any scale from any direction to benefit the same way. It suffers from complete niche status. Even it’s OEM status requires JIT small batch manufacturing strategy for best chance at profitability. I support the BBMo/TCL strategy but it’s limited use.

My Costco has the SE for about $ 250 and can not sell them.

[HeyCori]

Whelp, all non-LE editions of the Key2 are gone from Best Buys site. Looks like Best Buy is getting out the key2 game.

[bb10adopter111]

Whelp, all non-LE editions of the Key2 are gone from Best Buys site. Looks like Best Buy is getting out the key2 game.

More likely BBMO has sold out the KEY2 in your market. Amazon will sell anything that's available.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[o4liberty]

Its still available on Amazon red edition for $699

[bb10adopter111]

Its still available on Amazon red edition for $699

Confirmed here in the US. But it says delivery June 11 - July 3 and "usually ships in 1-2 months."

So, it's questionable, IMO