12-05-19 09:20 AM
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  1. the_boon's Avatar
    You'll see BYOD disappear. Stay tuned.
    If BYOD disappeared and no one made a PKB that enterprise would allow, then it would be even worse for some of us that use currently enjoy our KEY phones on BYOD
    11-11-19 10:44 AM
  2. ray689's Avatar
    If it was coming, it would have happened in Aug or Sep.

    Nor was it ever specifically committed to at any point.
    WHAT? The guy who kept stating well "they said its coming in summer so it'll come" is now back tracking? Also the same guy who kept citing some exec saying a new device is coming in early 2020 and jumping all over people who stated it looks like its the end of devices (with that same middle management exec quote) is now back tracking on that I see as well. Just hedging your stance so you can still say "I told you so"? lol.
    Crusader03 and Paulelmar18 like this.
    11-11-19 10:51 AM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You'll see BYOD disappear. Stay tuned.
    Only in government or regulated industries has there been pushback on BYOD and I’m a regulated industry participant. Even now, I’m using BYOD without corporate required device. The industry has created secure UEM or EMM containerized solutions for people like me that are contracted or statutory in name only. I suspect that BYOD could eventually go away if we return to ways of providing me corporate device and charging me for it. The industry may choose to just enforce privacy guidelines and regulations better. I’m one that feels in select industries BYOD could go away. At end of day, what’s cheaper to support and/or easier to support is what usually wins. Either way, BB is there more as Enterprise Software player for the industry as whole.
    11-11-19 10:51 AM
  4. conite's Avatar
    WHAT? The guy who kept stating well "they said its coming in summer so it'll come" is now back tracking? Also the same guy who kept citing some exec saying a new device is coming in early 2020 and jumping all over people who stated it looks like its the end of devices (with that same middle management exec quote) is now back tracking on that I see as well. Just hedging your stance so you can still say "I told you so"? lol.
    I repeatedly stated that I would not entertain rumours unless hard deadlines were crossed.
    11-11-19 10:56 AM
  5. ray689's Avatar
    I repeatedly stated that I would not entertain rumours unless hard deadlines were crossed.
    What hard deadlines? You just said they never specifically committed? Which is what everyone who you kept disputing was telling you. Both on the update front and the new device front. The writing was clearly on the wall.
    Crusader03 and John Albert like this.
    11-11-19 10:59 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    What hard deadlines? You just said they never specifically committed? Which is what everyone who you kept disputing was telling you. Both on the update front and the new device front. The writing was clearly on the wall.
    Those are two different things.

    I'm not convince Pie was promised (although highly expected in my view). BUT if it was coming, it would have landed on the anticipated end of summer schedule.
    11-11-19 11:03 AM
  7. ray689's Avatar
    Those are two different things.

    I'm not convince Pie was promised (although highly expected in my view). BUT if it was coming, it would have landed on the anticipated end of summer schedule.
    No idea...you were the one citing something about them saying "next summer" and that you were "not concerned". You said it multiple times when people would question if it was coming.
    Crusader03 likes this.
    11-11-19 11:08 AM
  8. mrsimon's Avatar
    You could've assumed there would be one update, which the keyone got. How many mid-range phones don't get an Android update? No news so far, so the signs are ominous.
    11-11-19 11:10 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Only in government or regulated industries has there been pushback on BYOD and I’m a regulated industry participant. Even now, I’m using BYOD without corporate required device. The industry has created secure UEM or EMM containerized solutions for people like me that are contracted or statutory in name only. I suspect that BYOD could eventually go away if we return to ways of providing me corporate device and charging me for it. The industry may choose to just enforce privacy guidelines and regulations better. I’m one that feels in select industries BYOD could go away. At end of day, what’s cheaper to support and/or easier to support is what usually wins. Either way, BB is there more as Enterprise Software player for the industry as whole.
    I agree... select industries, BYOD might go away as there is some push back.

    But we are talking a tiny portion of the overall Enterprise market.

    IoT is going to mean a lot of things being connected. Maybe one day a CEO is going to want his car to read/display his overnight emails as it drives him into the office in the morning. What CEO is going to be happy if his $500K car can't display his email and files? To say nothing of his $20 Million dollar smart house with it's own built in AI.
    11-11-19 11:30 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    No idea...you were the one citing something about them saying "next summer" and that you were "not concerned". You said it multiple times when people would question if it was coming.
    conite took them at their word... sales were going great, sold more this year than last year, Android Recommended guarantees patches for three years and one update.

    But bottom line it is what they were putting out there, his only fault is he trusted BBMo to be different than BlackBerry or he simply needed to see FACTS to change his view. Rumors and guesses didn't play a part in his views.
    Drg84 and John Albert like this.
    11-11-19 11:36 AM
  11. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    No idea...you were the one citing something about them saying "next summer" and that you were "not concerned". You said it multiple times when people would question if it was coming.
    Both of which were true...BlackBerry Mobile said no device before 2020, which is what has happened, and Conite said he wouldn't be concerned unless Pie failed to arrive before September, which he wasn't.

    You weren't wrong to be pessimistic, and Conite wasn't wrong to take a "wait and see" approach based on BlackBerry Mobile's comments and the historical time line of BlackBerry Android updates.

    Forums aren't a game where people score points by guessing right about the future. In the absence of definitive information, once can either make an educated guess, based on the evidence, as you seem to have done, or refuse to make any prediction and simply wait and see, the way Conite did. One approach is not more legitimate than another.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-11-19 12:03 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Both of which were true...BlackBerry Mobile said no device before 2020, which is what has happened, and Conite said he wouldn't be concerned unless Pie failed to arrive before September, which he wasn't.

    You weren't wrong to be pessimistic, and Conite wasn't wrong to take a "wait and see" approach based on BlackBerry Mobile's comments and the historical time line of BlackBerry Android updates.

    Forums aren't a game where people score points by guessing right about the future. In the absence of definitive information, once can either make an educated guess, based on the evidence, as you seem to have done, or refuse to make any prediction and simply wait and see, the way Conite did. One approach is not more legitimate than another.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    The difference too was that many of the same people, not saying Ray689 as I don’t know, that professed a Key2 problem said the same thing about 12-18 months before regarding licensing in general without any device release, than about the KEYone after release.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Sooner or later some animals learn how to eat other animals to survive. BlackBerry has lived between these former examples for it’s entire life as do most companies.
    11-11-19 12:18 PM
  13. ray689's Avatar
    The difference too was that many of the same people, not saying Ray689 as I don’t know, that professed a Key2 problem said the same thing about 12-18 months before regarding licensing in general without any device release, than about the KEYone after release.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Sooner or later some animals learn how to eat other animals to survive. BlackBerry has lived between these former examples for it’s entire life as do most companies.
    I don't recall anyone saying anything regarding BBMo licencing between the Keyone and Key2. Everyone was expecting other devices and BBMo was full blast with events, CB events, world tours, telling everyone how happy they were. There was device leaks, BBMo always being on top of things and touting their success, etc. None of that happened a few months after the Key2 release so you can see why people were seeing the writing on the wall. As for Key2 problems, I was never even involved in those thread.
    Crusader03 likes this.
    11-11-19 12:22 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I don't recall anyone saying anything regarding BBMo licencing between the Keyone and Key2. Everyone was expecting other devices and BBMo was full blast with events, CB events, world tours, telling everyone how happy they were. There was device leaks, BBMo always being on top of things and touting their success, etc. None of that happened a few months after the Key2 release so you can see why people were seeing the writing on the wall. As for Key2 problems, I was never even involved in those thread.
    Hence the reason for my ray689 disclaimer. People have been finding ways to justify predicting the fall of BlackBerry since 2007 or so. Eventually, they exited mobile hardware. No surprise. People are now understanding what that meant three years ago. Something is better than nothing. For others, nothing came a long time ago. Mobile hardware death was inevitable. Never even close to necessary economic resources.
    11-11-19 01:07 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I don't recall anyone saying anything regarding BBMo licencing between the Keyone and Key2. Everyone was expecting other devices and BBMo was full blast with events, CB events, world tours, telling everyone how happy they were. There was device leaks, BBMo always being on top of things and touting their success, etc. None of that happened a few months after the Key2 release so you can see why people were seeing the writing on the wall. As for Key2 problems, I was never even involved in those thread.
    Not everyone.....

    TCL had a shot to delivery something different. The KEYone with that hardware package that was already a year old and priced at a premium with almost no carrier support at lauch (USA anyway... SPRINT didn't count for much). From that point on it's been pretty clear that TCL wasn't really going to invest what was needed. Motion was a flop, enterprise didn't buy. We didn't need the KEY2 issues to know that BBMo was in trouble.
    11-11-19 01:58 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Hence the reason for my ray689 disclaimer. People have been finding ways to justify predicting the fall of BlackBerry since 2007 or so. Eventually, they exited mobile hardware. No surprise. People are now understanding what that meant three years ago. Something is better than nothing. For others, nothing came a long time ago. Mobile hardware death was inevitable. Never even close to necessary economic resources.
    Also, beyond the issue of economic resources, BlackBerry Limited wasn't even remotely designed, as an organization, to succeed in the consumer marketplace.

    They were never a consumer electronics company. They were an enterprise messaging company that got lucky with consumers who wanted mobile email and QWERTY text messaging.

    Once Apple succeeded in moving demand from the IT manager to the end user, BlackBerry never stood a chance. They lacked the people, the processes and the vision to understand and meet the needs of consumers. It would be like asking a mid-career biologist to become a physician. It's not impossible, but it's a hell of a transition and it would take a decade of work.

    IF BlackBerry had decided, in 2005-7 that they really wanted to become a consumer-focused company, they had the cash flow and market position to do it, but they would have needed to completely remake the company, and there was no appetite for that kind of transformation then, or anytime since.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    11-11-19 02:03 PM
  17. ray689's Avatar
    Not everyone.....

    TCL had a shot to delivery something different. The KEYone with that hardware package that was already a year old and priced at a premium with almost no carrier support at lauch (USA anyway... SPRINT didn't count for much). From that point on it's been pretty clear that TCL wasn't really going to invest what was needed. Motion was a flop, enterprise didn't buy. We didn't need the KEY2 issues to know that BBMo was in trouble.
    Not disagreeing. Just stating that even after the launch of the KEY2 the writing was on the wall given the way BBMo was operating as compared to the enthusiastic push after KEYone. I wasn't the one standing tall with my "an exec said something in 2020" crap. Could tell that was bull**** a mile away lol.
    11-11-19 02:04 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Not disagreeing. Just stating that even after the launch of the KEY2 the writing was on the wall given the way BBMo was operating as compared to the enthusiastic push after KEYone. I wasn't the one standing tall with my "an exec said something in 2020" crap. Could tell that was bull**** a mile away lol.
    No one would have argued that the stars were all aligned for a triumphant run for the KEY² and potential KEY³.

    But despite the clear reorganisation at TCL, nothing definitively drove a nail into a coffin.

    On the positive side, patches were (and are) still continuing as per normal.

    I, of course, had my concerns about the circumstantial evidence being presented (some of which I was getting real-time from reliable sources too). But, as I mentioned countless times, it takes more than that to make me panic.

    Back in the space-race days, you would have certainly heard a lot of compelling reasons of why a particular space capsule may not have survived re-entry, but until it doesn't actually appear when it was expect to appear, I wouldn't have tried to spread fear.
    11-11-19 02:51 PM
  19. RK_BB's Avatar
    Talking 9 while stuck on 8 when 11 is what? Less than a year away...mmm....
    Crusader03 and John Albert like this.
    11-11-19 03:41 PM
  20. Matt J's Avatar
    I guess at this stage it doesn't matter much if Android 9 is released for the KEY2. The device is already almost 1.5 years old, so even if Android 9 was released, it would stop getting updates shortly after.

    As long as the security updates continue for another year or two, I'm good... Next device will probably be a Pixel or iPhone. Sure, you pay a little more, but OS updates are fast and consistent.

    I'd love to see a KEY3 in 2020 running Android 10... but I'm not holding my breath.
    11-12-19 07:42 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    I guess at this stage it doesn't matter much if Android 9 is released for the KEY2. The device is already almost 1.5 years old, so even if Android 9 was released, it would stop getting updates shortly after.

    As long as the security updates continue for another year or two, I'm good... Next device will probably be a Pixel or iPhone. Sure, you pay a little more, but OS updates are fast and consistent.

    I'd love to see a KEY3 in 2020 running Android 10... but I'm not holding my breath.
    Oreo updates will end around Sep of 2020.

    Therefore, the only way to keep getting patches after that date, is to upgrade to Pie.

    In any event, the two-year cycle will end for the KEY² in July.
    John Albert likes this.
    11-12-19 12:32 PM
  22. Matt J's Avatar
    Oreo updates will end around Sep of 2020.

    The only way to keep getting patches after that date, is to upgrade to Pie.
    So if we get Pie, updates will continue, even if the KEY2 is 2.5 years old at that point?
    11-12-19 12:34 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    So if we get Pie, updates will continue, even if the KEY2 is 2.5 years old at that point?
    I don't expect so, no. It will end in July either way.

    I was responding to: "As long as the security updates continue for another year or two, I'm good".
    11-12-19 12:35 PM
  24. Matt J's Avatar
    I don't expect so, no. It will end in July either way.

    I was responding to: "As long as the security updates continue for another year or two, I'm good".
    OK makes sense. It's just disappointing that a well-made device like the KEY2 will last longer than the software updates will. Seems like a terrible waste.
    Smokeaire and bberrist like this.
    11-12-19 12:37 PM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    OK makes sense. It's just disappointing that a well-made device like the KEY2 will last longer than the software updates will. Seems like a terrible waste.
    Many would say the same of the 9900, the PlayBook, the Passport......

    It all comes down to how critical are the updates, and how critical it is that you be on the very latest. Short something major, I'd probable be fine with a year past the end of the patches...
    11-12-19 12:55 PM
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