[prince_1308]

I love BlackBerry and rock a K1. What I'm trying to figure out is why OIS hasn't been included in both the K1 and K2. Is it that expensive? And are there software options to improve the camera?

[Troy Tiscareno]

Every feature costs money - plus lots of features are actually purchased from other vendors and those vendors may have a limited number of the part available, and will prioritize their largest customers first. A device maker has to weigh costs (adding $1 in parts costs means $5-10 in retail price increase), the availability of those parts, whether they can fit the parts into their design, etc.

TCL isn't trying to make a flagship phone with flagship features, because they can't be price-competitive - a flagship-level K2 with Galaxy S-type specs would probably cost $1500 retail because TCL is in a very different position than Samsung - so some features have to be cut in order to reach a pricepoint that will assure a minimum level of sales. Keep in mind that we're still talking around 1M devices per year, which is nothing compared to the rest of the market.

There's a whole list of features that different people want, and they'd all add cost, complexity, require internal space, licensing issues, or something. That's why they aren't in there already.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Have no idea what it cost... but it pretty clear it didn't fit within their design parameters.

There are plenty of camera reviews out there and folks are starting to post images.... it is what it is.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Every feature costs money - plus lots of features are actually purchased from other vendors and those vendors may have a limited number of the part available, and will prioritize their largest customers first. A device maker has to weigh costs (adding $1 in parts costs means $5-10 in retail price increase), the availability of those parts, whether they can fit the parts into their design, etc.

TCL isn't trying to make a flagship phone with flagship features, because they can't be price-competitive - a flagship-level K2 with Galaxy S-type specs would probably cost $1500 retail because TCL is in a very different position than Samsung - so some features have to be cut in order to reach a pricepoint that will assure a minimum level of sales. Keep in mind that we're still talking around 1M devices per year, which is nothing compared to the rest of the market.

There's a whole list of features that different people want, and they'd all add cost, complexity, require internal space, licensing issues, or something. That's why they aren't in there already.

I wonder how TCL operates.... I know in the past BlackBerry had to make guesstimates on parts orders and obligates themselves to purchasing those components. Production was usually done in big batches and then stored, they were then boxed as needed and put into distribution channels.

With the KEY2, it doesn't share much with other TCL Communications products, so it's not like they can offset some of the components or just have bulk orders. I think all the new Alcatel phones are using Mediatek chips, so with as little as TCL is doing with Qualcom that can't be getting very good pricing. Might be purchasing via 3rd parties distributor in order to have an available flow of components in the quantities they need? Plus it sure seems like they do very small production batches from time to time as needed. Which seems different from what I've heard about most electronics production.

I think the way they are operating is expensive, but it's the only way to minimize their risk with such a small market. So probable not as much profit going back to TCL as some think the $650 price would suggest.

[tickerguy]

OIS comes with both a size penalty (for the sensor, since it needs the other 3 axis on the voice-coil) and a durability penalty (it's materially more-fragile than a sensor without it.) The price penalty isn't very large but the other two issues often are (the latter results in higher warranty expense.)

[Troy Tiscareno]

I suspect you are right on in your analysis. TCL isn't in a position to lose money, and the "the market is expanding so take big losses to secure marketshare" phase of the smartphone market ended in 2012. The market is mature, and has entered the consolidation phase where companies will either exit the market, be bought out by larger companies, or will exit the market completely.

In the late 80s and early 90s, there were a hundred companies making PCs (just for the US market). Today there are about 8, and the vast majority of the market is owned by about 4 companies (Apple, HP, Dell, and Acer). Smartphones are definitely heading that way.

[Crusader03]

They need some upgrades to entice for K3 upgrade. lol

[Vistaus]

Today there are about 8, and the vast majority of the market is owned by about 4 companies (Apple, HP, Dell, and Acer).

5: Lenovo is very big in the business market with their laptops (esp. ThinkPads).

Posted via CB10 using my amazing  Passport (OG Red)

[skrble]

5: Lenovo is very big in the business market with their laptops (esp. ThinkPads).

Posted via CB10 using my amazing  Passport (OG Red)

Lenovo is very strong throughout the whole pc portfolio. It's been long term varying between the world's no.1 and 2 biggest PC supplier.

Only quite a small part of their PC business is being manufactured directly by them, eg. the true ThinkPads (like T or X series, not that ridiculous E/Edge series). The rest of the laptop production is being built in a few giant factories: the garbage like IdeaPad or ThinkPad Edge, various Acer/Asus/HP "laptops" (such a Pavilions and other "brands" which are good to be put into the trashbin right after being manufactured). Generally, only the hardware for the companies is being designed and made directly by Lenovo/HP/Dell etc. The rest is a trash for the consumer sphere: HP just orders a chinese factory to design a laptop with this "look", these specs and a few details - the only thing that is really HP there is the logo on it.

I know thats offtopic but might be interesting for some.

[anon(4297019)]

All I can say is that if your desire is to take videos, why are you looking at BlackBerry. It's not being designed nor sold as a media phone.

[Fred Wu]

All I can say is that if your desire is to take videos, why are you looking at BlackBerry. It's not being designed nor sold as a media phone.

Media phone? As no one can really work if they do not own a BB?

[anon(4297019)]

Media phone? As no one can really work if they do not own a BB?

Fred you are misinterpreting my words. Really if you want really superb video don't buy any phone, whatever make, but get yourself a real camera. The Camera won't have a physical keyboard however.

[early2bed]

All I can say is that if your desire is to take videos, why are you looking at BlackBerry. It's not being designed nor sold as a media phone.

That's pretty much the thinking that knocked BlackBerry out of the smartphone business for good - that their target customer was different than the rest of the smartphone market. As if people who used their phone for work don't have families, take vacations, or do other non work-related things on their smartphone. The companies that make media phones certainly aren't shying away from the business market.

[Fred Wu]

Fred you are misinterpreting my words. Really if you want really superb video don't buy any phone, whatever make, but get yourself a real camera. The Camera won't have a physical keyboard however.

Ppl is complaining about video viewing because the keyboard will interrupt the viewing experience, you will see the keyboard all the time while watching the video. Do you watch movies on your computer or TV without watching them full screen?

Don't may "real camera" nonsense comments anymore. No one will buy a camera if it is not a DSLR, and no one will buy a DSLR if you don't seriously consider to invest on it to make professional level of photography. You cannot expect people to camera a big chunk camera all the time given nowadays a cell phone can provide the needs for most of non-photographers in day to day life.

Such you "don't like it, don't buy anything" is just a childish and non-realistic comment.

[anon(4297019)]

Ppl is complaining about video viewing because the keyboard will interrupt the viewing experience, you will see the keyboard all the time while watching the video. Do you watch movies on your computer or TV without watching them full screen?

I have no idea what you are talking about? Keyboard visible during playback??

[Fred Wu]

I have no idea what you are talking about? Keyboard visible during playback??

It's a PKB, you will see it all the time

[anon(4297019)]

That is the Colossus of Intellect comment of the day. I'm out of here.

[AhabSnake]

its cheaper to buy software for the pc and do it at home.

[thurask]

That's pretty much the thinking that knocked BlackBerry out of the smartphone business for good - that their target customer was different than the rest of the smartphone market. As if people who used their phone for work don't have families, take vacations, or do other non work-related things on their smartphone. The companies that make media phones certainly aren't shying away from the business market.

As well as assuming "work" is 100% writing emails.

[chain13]

As well as assuming "work" is 100% writing emails.

Yeah, Work is not writing emails, or take notes/appointment on your phone.
To be honest, I never see any blackberry in my workplace now.

[anon(10429275)]

I hear ya, OP. I really wish BB has put a little more of a priority on the camera upgrade for K2. That being said, the K2 camera does seem like an upgrade from my K1 in many ways. And the rest of the phone is so fabulously improved over my BE K1 that I think BB/TCL probably just had to decide where to invest their limited resources. Truth be told, if the options were 'K1 keyboard, faster processor, way better camera' OR 'K2 keyboard, faster processor, mildly better camera' ... I would choose the K2 we got. The keyboard and other improvements are just TOO good IMHO to give up on the K2. I love mine SO MUCH so far!

[anon(2695703)]

.
"TCL isn't trying to make a flagship phone with flagship features..."

https://m.crackberry.com/blackberry-...remium-market?

"We will be firmly staying in a premium category..."
- Francois Mahieu, BlackBerry Mobile Global GM

I'm not trying to catch you in a war of words. I'm just suggesting that perhaps BlackBerry might be trying to optimize for too many things at the same time, resulting in tradeoffs... trying to be the most "reasonable" of the expensive phone category.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

https://m.crackberry.com/blackberry-...remium-market?

"We will be firmly staying in a premium category..."
- Francois Mahieu, BlackBerry Mobile Global GM

I'm not trying to catch you in a war of words. I'm just suggesting that perhaps BlackBerry might be trying to optimize for too many things at the same time, resulting in tradeoffs... trying to be the most "reasonable" of the expensive phone category.

From BBMo... those are just marketing words used to justify their pricing. If they really wanted to be viewed as a premium brand, they would have made the KEY2 a more premium device. You don't start off with a midgrade processor from last year, you don't use a basic LCD Display (can use LCD, but it's got to be best in class) - those are the two big items on what make a smartphone premium.

OIS, Wireless Charging, Waterproofing those are "extras" that some premium phones have... to build their premium image. BBMo didn't even start with the basics.

[anon(10268214)]

FYI...the Key2 has an option called 'Advanced Video Stabilization' in the camera settings.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

FYI...the Key2 has an option called 'Advanced Video Stabilization' in the camera settings.

Is it on by default?

Most EIS systems do degrade the image quality, this is especially noticeable in low light environments. Which is one of the issues with the KEY2. Maybe turning this off might help.

If it's off by default, it probable not something you'll want to use in low light conditions.