1. JECE's Avatar
    I think I'm sold on the KEY2.

    I feel ready to upgrade my beloved Passport Silver Edition for a new phone that is 20% lighter in my tired hands and with double the RAM, double or quadruple the storage memory, USB updated from 2.0 to 3.0, Quick Charge updated from 2.0 to 3.0, Bluetooth updated from 4.2 to 5.0, front camera video upgraded from 720p to 1080p, quadruple the megapixels on the front camera, newly supported Galileo (and newly supported Beidou?) satellite navigation, several new LTE bands (including some used by my T-Mobile US carrier) and the awesome speed key to quickly switch between dozens of apps. As an added bonus I get a 1% larger battery and a fingerprint sensor that I don't care for. But most importantly, I gain the full Android runtime complete with Google Play Services and an OS updated from 4.3 (Jelly Bean) to 8.1 (Oreo).

    I gain all this for mostly minor compromises: 8% less megapixels on the rear camera that is apparently more than compensated for with double the lenses, half the fps on rear camera video that should be more than made up for with an upgrade from 1080p to 4K and a 4% worse PPI screen resolution that I probably won't notice since I am still so impressed with my Passport's display. I also lose stereo speakers, but to be honest, I laughed out loud when I learned about my Passport's stereo speakers while playing around in BBVE. The loss of BlackBerry 10 as my daily driver saddens me, but I expect that after years of development, this will be largely compensated for with Android and BlackBerry Android software. Perhaps a compromise or perhaps an upgrade, the mute key is replaced by a convenience key that I don't fully understand.

    The big compromise for me is the significantly narrower keyboard, but I understand that Android app developers can't be counted on to support a rotated screen (for devices with keyboards that slide out from the side) or a square screen (for devices like the Passport). This drawback was somewhat remedied by making the keyboard taller, which allowed room for half a dozen new keys. Obviously the new speed key is revolutionary, but it doesn't aid with typing. I can't judge how useful the other keys are to the typing experience without getting my hands on the device.

    All this said, I should be sold, but yet I'm scared to make the switch, and it's not BlackBerry's fault. See, I once sported the Droid 4, the last flagship Android with a keyboard. One day in the library with my Droid 4, I got a notification that my phone was ready to update to Jelly Bean. Without thinking twice, I went ahead and updated the Android OS. The result crippled my phone.

    My phone became unbearably slow. I lost the "Quick launch" keyboard shortcuts to open apps (maybe in the prior update) as the functionality was removed from the Android OS. I lost a lot of notes that I had stored in now-removed stock "Sticky Note" widgets and when I called to get help I was told that they couldn't guarantee data preservation on their own apps but that they could guarantee that I wouldn't lose data if I used third-party apps. What nonsense! Most devastating was the dumbing down of the keyboard: The [SYM] key became a second spacebar, the caps lock key stopped working, the shift key was no longer sticky (so you actually had to hold both the shift key and letter key down at the same time to get capital letters, as if you were using a computer keyboard), holding down letters would just type the letter ('eeeeeee') rather than present you with special characters ('é') and, to top it off, pressing the backspace key would delete a random character in the entire paragraph.

    I'm sure that I'm forgetting some of the **** I endured for months hoping that a new Android physical keyboard device would be released. I ended up switching to the BlackBerry Passport after a ton of on-line research, switching carriers from Verizon to T-Mobile and from Android to the BlackBerry 10 operating system that I had never even heard of before my research. Whether the fiasco was Motorola's, Verizon's or Google's fault, I never want to go through that again.

    Maybe I have no choice since the KEY2 is the only decent phone with a keyboard on the market, but it would certainly give me peace of mind to know how BlackBerry Mobile and BlackBerry Limited might do with the OS upgrade to Android P. Can you imagine updating to Android P and finding out that the capacitive keyboard gestures no longer work or that the speed key has been remapped as the home button? What do we have as evidence so far that these sort of failures won't happen? I haven't been keeping track of BlackBerry Android OS upgrades. Is the current rollout of Oreo to the KEYone the only thing we have to go on? How has that gone?
    Rico4you likes this.
    07-21-18 03:43 PM
  2. Rico4you's Avatar
    I think I'm sold on the KEY2.

    I feel ready to upgrade my beloved Passport Silver Edition for a new phone that is 20% lighter in my tired hands and with double the RAM, double or quadruple the storage memory, USB updated from 2.0 to 3.0, Quick Charge updated from 2.0 to 3.0, Bluetooth updated from 4.2 to 5.0, front camera video upgraded from 720p to 1080p, quadruple the megapixels on the front camera, newly supported Galileo (and newly supported Beidou?) satellite navigation, several new LTE bands (including some used by my T-Mobile US carrier) and the awesome speed key to quickly switch between dozens of apps. As an added bonus I get a 1% larger battery and a fingerprint sensor that I don't care for. But most importantly, I gain the full Android runtime complete with Google Play Services and an OS updated from 4.3 (Jelly Bean) to 8.1 (Oreo).

    I gain all this for mostly minor compromises: 8% less megapixels on the rear camera that is apparently more than compensated for with double the lenses, half the fps on rear camera video that should be more than made up for with an upgrade from 1080p to 4K and a 4% worse PPI screen resolution that I probably won't notice since I am still so impressed with my Passport's display. I also lose stereo speakers, but to be honest, I laughed out loud when I learned about my Passport's stereo speakers while playing around in BBVE. The loss of BlackBerry 10 as my daily driver saddens me, but I expect that after years of development, this will be largely compensated for with Android and BlackBerry Android software. Perhaps a compromise or perhaps an upgrade, the mute key is replaced by a convenience key that I don't fully understand.

    The big compromise for me is the significantly narrower keyboard, but I understand that Android app developers can't be counted on to support a rotated screen (for devices with keyboards that slide out from the side) or a square screen (for devices like the Passport). This drawback was somewhat remedied by making the keyboard taller, which allowed room for half a dozen new keys. Obviously the new speed key is revolutionary, but it doesn't aid with typing. I can't judge how useful the other keys are to the typing experience without getting my hands on the device.

    All this said, I should be sold, but yet I'm scared to make the switch, and it's not BlackBerry's fault. See, I once sported the Droid 4, the last flagship Android with a keyboard. One day in the library with my Droid 4, I got a notification that my phone was ready to update to Jelly Bean. Without thinking twice, I went ahead and updated the Android OS. The result crippled my phone.

    My phone became unbearably slow. I lost the "Quick launch" keyboard shortcuts to open apps (maybe in the prior update) as the functionality was removed from the Android OS. I lost a lot of notes that I had stored in now-removed stock "Sticky Note" widgets and when I called to get help I was told that they couldn't guarantee data preservation on their own apps but that they could guarantee that I wouldn't lose data if I used third-party apps. What nonsense! Most devastating was the dumbing down of the keyboard: The [SYM] key became a second spacebar, the caps lock key stopped working, the shift key was no longer sticky (so you actually had to hold both the shift key and letter key down at the same time to get capital letters, as if you were using a computer keyboard), holding down letters would just type the letter ('eeeeeee') rather than present you with special characters ('é') and, to top it off, pressing the backspace key would delete a random character in the entire paragraph.

    I'm sure that I'm forgetting some of the **** I endured for months hoping that a new Android physical keyboard device would be released. I ended up switching to the BlackBerry Passport after a ton of on-line research, switching carriers from Verizon to T-Mobile and from Android to the BlackBerry 10 operating system that I had never even heard of before my research. Whether the fiasco was Motorola's, Verizon's or Google's fault, I never want to go through that again.

    Maybe I have no choice since the KEY2 is the only decent phone with a keyboard on the market, but it would certainly give me peace of mind to know how BlackBerry Mobile and BlackBerry Limited might do with the OS upgrade to Android P. Can you imagine updating to Android P and finding out that the capacitive keyboard gestures no longer work or that the speed key has been remapped as the home button? What do we have as evidence so far that these sort of failures won't happen? I haven't been keeping track of BlackBerry Android OS upgrades. Is the current rollout of Oreo to the KEYone the only thing we have to go on? How has that gone?
    Good extensive post. Oreo is currently on Beta being tested and shortly will be available for all. BlackBerry devices with their security built exists a margin before available after launch from Google. I made the switch from my beloved Passport SE, to PRIV, KEYONE and now waiting on KEY2. No looking back and enjoying how BlackBerry has transitioned features and software from BB10 to BlackBerry Android. Don't see myself using other Android devices.
    07-21-18 04:06 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Note that it took BB/BBMo 9 months or so to release Oreo for existing devices. One of the (many) reasons for this was to tweak everything to work with the PKB. BB and BBMo realize that PKBs are really their only remaining market, and aren't likely to torpedo it as Moto did, knowing the Droid 4 was the last PKB phone they'd be making and knowing that only a tiny percentage of the population (and a tiny percent of their existing customers) cared about PKBs. For BB, PKBs are much more important, and I'm sure you'll continue to see that reflected in OS updates.

    Yes, that same reason also causes those updates to be delayed more than other brands, but everything has a cost.
    07-21-18 04:16 PM
  4. markusbeutel's Avatar
    Don't worry - the Key2 won't be getting Android P anyways due to the capacitive buttons. Good excuse for a 749/899 (depending on US or Canada) upgrade next year. Only $100 more too!
    Fred Wu, Lobwedgephil and chain13 like this.
    07-21-18 05:39 PM
  5. clerk's Avatar
    Is it true that this won't even get one android update?
    07-21-18 06:56 PM
  6. the_boon's Avatar
    It will
    07-21-18 07:02 PM
  7. markusbeutel's Avatar
    It will
    Why would it? P is all gesture based - absolutely useless on the Key 2. We'll probably get security updates and that's it.
    07-21-18 08:19 PM
  8. JECE's Avatar
    Is it true that this won't even get one android update?
    I posted this thread because I saw several sources promise that Android P will come to the KEY2. For example:
    https://crackberry.com/blackberry-key2-review
    https://www.androidcentral.com/blackberry-key2-review
    https://www.tomsguide.com/us/blackbe...view-5480.html


    Why would it? P is all gesture based - absolutely useless on the Key 2. We'll probably get security updates and that's it.
    "Android's home button and back button aren't going away"
    https://www.cnet.com/news/the-real-r...uses-gestures/
    07-21-18 08:43 PM
  9. markusbeutel's Avatar
    I posted this thread because I saw several sources promise that Android P will come to the KEY2. For example:
    https://crackberry.com/blackberry-key2-review
    https://www.androidcentral.com/blackberry-key2-review
    https://www.tomsguide.com/us/blackbe...view-5480.html




    "Android's home button and back button aren't going away"
    https://www.cnet.com/news/the-real-r...uses-gestures/
    You clearly havent used P at all - watch this video showing how it works:

    The problem is that the Key devices have permanent capacitive keys. You honestly think they'll get P, only for there to be a second back and home screen button above the capacitive buttons, not to mention the home and back buttons built in to various apps and browsers??

    With how small this screen is already , if you factor in all of those navigation controls we'll have like 3 inches of screen to work with.

    There's no chance the Key devices are getting P - the Key 3 though, well, for only $100 more it'll have P out of the box.
    07-21-18 08:55 PM
  10. anon(2695703)'s Avatar
    I agree with OP. others on this site check for updates constantly, sometimes multiple times a day.

    I'm hesitant to make changes to my device in general without seeing what the community feedback is first.
    07-22-18 12:18 AM
  11. Knightmayre90's Avatar
    I've used 'P' on my pixel and it worked just fine but I also agree that I can't see how it can be used on the K2, it's primary difference in swiping the open apps would require another layer of this screen to be used up. I reckon K3 will improve on this. they did seem to listen to the comments regarding the K1.
    07-22-18 12:42 AM
  12. jd3232's Avatar
    Why would it? P is all gesture based - absolutely useless on the Key 2. We'll probably get security updates and that's it.
    On Android P, you can choose gesture base or you can stick with the original set up with back, home and recent apps.

    I know this because I have a Pixel 2 XL running Android P for almost two months. the Key2 will be getting the Android P update eventually and it will run just fine without the swipe up gesture piece
    https://techlector.com/list-of-all-s...roid-p-update/
    07-22-18 02:51 AM
  13. v6ak's Avatar
    Some part Android version (maybe 4.0 ICS) has brought on-screen navbar. There were many phones with either physical buttons and/or capatitice buttons. For those phones, it didn't make any sense to add additional navbar. You can probably guess what has happened: Those phones did not get on-screen navbar, and the hardware buttons were still working as they were before the upgrade. I remember even Android Marshmallow on a phone with a menu button (Xperia Mini Pro), which had been phased out for on-screen menu buttons that time. Nevertheless, the menu button was working well even on Marshmallow.

    This suggests what will happen on Key2 (and many other phones) with Android P: Navbar will probably remain as is, with no gestures. One might regret missing gestures, but this is still better than not having the upgrade.

    BTW, I don't think Android is not ready for side-slider. I have used such phones for years (Xperia X10 Mini Pro and Xperia Mini Pro, 2010 – 2016) and it was OK. Most apps were ready for that. There were few apps without rotation, which was a pain, but this clearly was not a frequent case. As long as an app is ready for a both portrait and landscape, is should be ready for such phone. In one case, an app has tried to handle rotation on its own, not respecting rotation lock.

    There are some other issues with side-sliders:

    * First, they are *sliders*. This implies issues with flex cables. After many open/close cycles, the flex cable between base and screen wears out. I have replaced it several times. Maybe it can have been done better, but still, I consider this as a potential point of failure.
    * Second, you can choose between two-hand phone and small screen. My side sliders were small-screen phones, the larger one had a 3" screen. Having a larger screen causes the phone to be worse usable with one hand, especially when the phone is open. I had times of rejecting any screen over 3". In contrast, I am able to type with just one hand on KEYone any issue. This was possible even with Priv, but the phone is quite tall when opened.
    * All sliders have a “stair” between keyboard and screen. I don't find this as confortable as fixed construction of KEYone.
    07-22-18 07:37 AM
  14. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Don't worry - the Key2 won't be getting Android P anyways due to the capacitive buttons. Good excuse for a 749/899 (depending on US or Canada) upgrade next year. Only $100 more too!
    The gestures are optional, there's no requirement by Google for OEM's to enable/implement them and it's already known the KEY2 will get P. But of course, you already know that and dismissed the other posts that showed it by claiming the person posting them hasn't used P. Straight from the reviewers guide:

    Who's afraid of Android P?-screenshot-2018-07-23-16.40.17.jpg

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    07-23-18 03:37 PM
  15. jd3232's Avatar
    lol yea, I was laughing reading this guy's posts. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about and could not be more wrong
    07-23-18 04:19 PM

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