08-27-18 12:06 PM
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  1. the_boon's Avatar

    But then, the quality just sucks. From the problems posted here, it looks like it's an Alcatel-quality device and nothing can wash that away.
    First batch devices tend to be hit or miss, later built units are just as good quality wise as most other phones I'd say.
    08-25-18 04:05 PM
  2. mralgi's Avatar
    To your point I can only say



    TCL made a ****ty product, it IS not acceptable and it is a nobraner that market will punish for this with sales.

    Everyone else understand that you must give best specs if you want to compete in the market, just look at pocophone what they could do with 300 bucks retail price or whatever other..

    What TCL did, it looks like they emptying their warehouse by refurbishing ****ty Alcatel phones and putting BB logos on them and playing on BB trust credit for BB loyalist.

    How long they think we all gonna tolerate this??

    They charge us like premium and we all can pay premium, but not for Alcatel ****ty specs, #keyboardnotenough , apple, huawei and samsung is our specs.

    Long story short, if BB was collaborative with Huawei like Porsche Design, today we would have best PKB device ever made and everyone would want to have one like 10 years ago was with iPhone because it was different now it is the same like others, BB is different now but they failing by offering refurbished Alcatel crap no one wanted in the first place, no offence.
    I've been deliberating over this post for a few minutes and I don't think there's one point that I agree with.
    08-25-18 06:08 PM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    Jan Ole's review is out. CHeck this out
    [video]https://www.youtube.com/user/JanOleHelmbold/videos[/url]
    His enthusiasm is wayyy down compared to last year with the KEYone
    08-26-18 03:29 AM
  4. xubabi's Avatar
    First batch devices tend to be hit or miss, later built units are just as good quality wise as most other phones I'd say.
    I really hope that will be the case here. My point earlier was that TCL's history in quality management doesn't really support this hope.

    They're trying to do something unconventional and interesting in the Android space, which means they have to match other offerings and beat them - on many, if not on all fronts.
    08-26-18 08:26 AM
  5. chain13's Avatar
    1) they benefit by lowering their development costs (=lower software quality, compensated by the better chipset)
    2) they benefit by charging you a higher price and justifying it with the presence of said better chipset
    Where did you get “lower development cost” “lower software quality” etc??? If you see a company like xiaomi, huawei, oneplus, they could deliver cheaper high end devices without compromising the software. They even make their own chipsets under development and even have their own cloud service like icloud for syncing. If you compare everything they did, what blackberry did is just nothing.
    08-26-18 08:54 AM
  6. Vistaus's Avatar
    Of course newer chipsets keep getting better and better, I fully agree with this. But the crux of the pressure for constant upgrades lies in the fact that gains made in hardware are squandered by software.

    The people benefiting the most from this new hardware are those who sell it to you, the phonemakers, and they benefit doubly:
    1) they benefit by lowering their development costs (=lower software quality, compensated by the better chipset)
    2) they benefit by charging you a higher price and justifying it with the presence of said better chipset

    That's why I would not subscribe to "top specs" phones.
    Also, it doesn't matter when it comes to R&D 'cause by the time a device comes out of R&D, there already is a newer, better processor anyway.
    08-26-18 04:14 PM
  7. Vistaus's Avatar
    Where did you get “lower development cost” “lower software quality” etc??? If you see a company like xiaomi, huawei, oneplus, they could deliver cheaper high end devices without compromising the software. They even make their own chipsets under development and even have their own cloud service like icloud for syncing. If you compare everything they did, what blackberry did is just nothing.
    Did you read my earlier post about the performance of Xiaomi vs BlackBerry? They don't deliver well if performance with their higher-end processors is exactly the same as the 660.
    08-26-18 04:16 PM
  8. xubabi's Avatar
    Where did you get “lower development cost” “lower software quality” etc??? If you see a company like xiaomi, huawei, oneplus, they could deliver cheaper high end devices without compromising the software. They even make their own chipsets under development and even have their own cloud service like icloud for syncing. If you compare everything they did, what blackberry did is just nothing.
    There are many things we could look at - the bloat, add-ons, hard to disable services, programming with higher and higher level APIs, libraries and languages, with bad compilers, excessive amounts of layers inbetween, unoptimized virtual machines and so on. The cycle is really short these days as @Vistaus pointed out just now.

    Because of these inefficiencies, the majority of the gains made in hardware aren't transferred to end users in a meaningful way. The middle layers are wastefully eating away at the battery and other resources.

    Most Android makers use stock Android and take in all the crap that comes with it - anything that doesn't do it is a niche. That's another key mistake, in my opinion. It was supposed to be a customizable system but became monolithic for all practical purposes. All in all, I think it's a much wider and more complex problem than that of any specific manufacturer. Yes, I'm looking at you, Google.

    It's good that BB and all the manufacturers you mentioned innovate, and I really support that. but it should be done in a more efficient way, not at the user's expense. For example, I think most here would agree that the benchmark of "barely one day of full use" of battery life that has been defining phone development and that has cursed us since a long time, is a terrible thing that should go away. And that's why having a 3500mah battery is great, so it's a step in the right direction.
    08-27-18 02:48 AM
  9. chain13's Avatar
    Did you read my earlier post about the performance of Xiaomi vs BlackBerry? They don't deliver well if performance with their higher-end processors is exactly the same as the 660.
    I did, but I didn’t respond because you didnt put any reference/link/video in that statement..

    Here I got
    08-27-18 06:28 AM
  10. chain13's Avatar
    There are many things we could look at - the bloat, add-ons, hard to disable services, programming with higher and higher level APIs, libraries and languages, with bad compilers, excessive amounts of layers inbetween, unoptimized virtual machines and so on. The cycle is really short these days as @Vistaus pointed out just now.

    Because of these inefficiencies, the majority of the gains made in hardware aren't transferred to end users in a meaningful way. The middle layers are wastefully eating away at the battery and other resources.

    Most Android makers use stock Android and take in all the crap that comes with it - anything that doesn't do it is a niche. That's another key mistake, in my opinion. It was supposed to be a customizable system but became monolithic for all practical purposes. All in all, I think it's a much wider and more complex problem than that of any specific manufacturer. Yes, I'm looking at you, Google.
    Agree and these inefficiencies happen on any custom android made by every manufacturers. So far pure stock android phones are the most legit experience which are pixel and some google one phones. But these day custom android is become more and more optimized.
    08-27-18 07:00 AM
  11. xubabi's Avatar
    But these day custom android is become more and more optimized.
    So let's hope Blackberry will wake up one day and decide to give us a clean experience! (e.g., without Google uploading everything to the "cloud")
    08-27-18 07:39 AM
  12. 4Nik1's Avatar
    I personally liked android prior to recent versions, when the Asus transformer pad was out and galaxy s3 "days" - I don't know the versions too well but I feel they were more simplistic and easier on the eyes. I could be wrong.

    Perhaps things would have been different if they placed all their efforts on custom android than bb10. Could have come along way now. Teams were decently staffed then.
    08-27-18 10:04 AM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I personally liked android prior to recent versions, when the Asus transformer pad was out and galaxy s3 "days" - I don't know the versions too well but I feel they were more simplistic and easier on the eyes. I could be wrong.

    Perhaps things would have been different if they placed all their efforts on custom android than bb10. Could have come along way now. Teams were decently staffed then.
    Problem is back then Android wasn't a good base for building a secure product on... today, it had to differentiate what they do to secure Android.... clearly not enough to make an impact with Government or Enterprise.

    At this point they might be better off selling a PKB accessory for major brand phones and pairing that with a BlackBerry Experience software "suite".
    08-27-18 11:02 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Perhaps things would have been different if they placed all their efforts on custom android than bb10. Could have come along way now. Teams were decently staffed then.
    The problem would be the same - no OHA certification, no Play Store, no Google Apps/Services.

    Just another OS without an ecosystem.
    08-27-18 11:02 AM
  15. krazyatom's Avatar
    I guess you have to enjoy bb10 while it last. We’re in world of ios and android and I really want to see 3rd major OS so we have more choices.
    08-27-18 11:15 AM
  16. xubabi's Avatar
    Problem is back then Android wasn't a good base for building a secure product on... today, it had to differentiate what they do to secure Android.... clearly not enough to make an impact with Government or Enterprise.

    At this point they might be better off selling a PKB accessory for major brand phones and pairing that with a BlackBerry Experience software "suite".
    I still think BB is in a great position to make a small revolution here, and custom spin Android to make it compatible with full-stack enterprise-grade security with no leaks. They have the know how and the resources and there are enthusiast projects doing similar things. Someone has to break the dependency of Android, incl. apps, on Google - I mean if you want to use the Play Store or even Android itself today, you agree to a permanent invasion of privacy. I don't see anyone with a better business case than BB, in this context.

    Maybe BB's problem is they don't have the customers for this? (and the potential customers only choose Apple as their alternative?). Hard to say.

    Or TCL can just unlock the bootloader and we'll take it from there ))
    08-27-18 12:06 PM
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