[anon(10268214)]

Zero effort? They made the keys 20% taller than the KEYone while not making the device significantly taller. The keys are now much easier to scroll on thanks to the matte finish. And they just look better.

Nothing can be improved?

LOL

First, they could copy the Priv's unibody keyboard design which could earn the device an IP rating.

They could also make RGB keyboard backlighting, shouldn't cost much and it would be awesome to customize colors.

They could make the keys just a tad more sculpted like Passport

They could bring the ctrl key on left side next to shift

Boon, you're wasting your time with these guys. They don't think it's worth paying extra to own a BlackBerry device. The argument was over before it began.

[chain13]

Lol this complaining about the KEY2 having a 660 instead of an 845 is just plain ridiculous.

Even the most nitpicky spec-obsessed reviewers said the KEY2's performance is more than adequate for most tasks.
By "most", they probably meant everything besides PUBG on highest graphics setting

The wish for better speakers and camera is real, but SoC? Come on, can you honestly tell us that the 660 is lagging to the point of making you return/sell the device?

If you talk about Soc. No body is gonna pay $650 just to get a phone with SD660

[chain13]

Zero effort? They made the keys 20% taller than the KEYone while not making the device significantly taller. The keys are now much easier to scroll on thanks to the matte finish. And they just look better.

Nothing can be improved?

LOL

First, they could copy the Priv's unibody keyboard design which could earn the device an IP rating.
They could also make RGB keyboard backlighting, shouldn't cost much and it would be awesome to customize colors.
They could make the keys just a tad more sculpted like Passport
They could bring the ctrl key on left side next to shift

Read my post ba boon. I said that the improvements are mostly just the outter design. Bigger keys, taller keys, squishy keys, doff keys, or anything you name it. In the end it's just button to be pressed no matter what.

[conite]

Read my post ba boon. I said that the improvements are mostly just the outter design. Bigger keys, taller keys, squishy keys, doff keys, or anything you name it. In the end it's just button to be pressed no matter what.

"Just a button". Are you an industrial designer? This is a super-complex piece of hardware.

But we get it - BBMo has nothing to offer anyone. Understood. Throw in towel.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

If you talk about Soc. No body is gonna pay $650 just to get a phone with SD660

Some already have....

BBMo isn't going after everyone, they are only going after those that value either the Brand, the PKB or the Security. It's very clear those things come at a cost (KEYone, Motion, and KEY2) - at this point expecting a change in their business model is a wast of time.

This will be the same argument with the KEY2 LE when it get's launched.... SD636 phone for $450 or $500 - I can buy the same phone for $200?!? But it won't be a BlackBerry, it won't have a PKB and it won't run BlackBerry's Android Secure... so it's not a "fair" comparison.

Niche products generally do carry a premium...

[the_boon]

If you talk about Soc. No body is gonna pay $650 just to get a phone with SD660

Sigh...

Yes, nobody is gonna pay 650 for a slab with a SD660.

[Vistaus]

The gauge I use is this...the BlackBerry Android apps, I have found through personal experience, open faster and generally run more smoothly on other Androids using high end chipsets like the 835 or even the 820. Some people preach that disabling animations helps speed up BlackBerry phones. Obviously, the extra gpu horsepower is doing more than just helping to play games. Unless you consider the BlackBerry productivity apps to be games. And my Key2 gets hot after taking a number of consecutive photos...also a chipset issue.

I'm not saying the 660 is a bad chipset. But to say a higher end chipset...like the 835 from last year's flagships...is not better, even when it comes to power consumption, is simply not true.

I've seen a few comparison videos on YouTube b/w the KEY2 and Xiaomi devices with the 835 and 845 and only with a few games was the KEY2 a few seconds slower, but what's a few seconds with high demanding games? You have to wait for those heavy games to load on all phones anyway, so you probably won't even notice the extra 2-3 seconds if you didn't have something to compare it to. In all other areas, the KEY2 was able to open everything just as fast as the Xiaomi devices. In fact, at one point in the comparison video with 835 chipset, the reviewer re-opened apps from the Recents screen and the Xiaomi started to load the apps and games as if they had never been opened while the KEY2 continued them from the point where they had been minimized. So all in all, the 660, at least with the optimized KEY2, is as good as the 8xx in the Xiaomi devices and better when it comes to memory management.

[Vistaus]

Sigh...

Yes, nobody is gonna pay 650 for a slab with a SD660.

I guess me, my mum and several Crackberrians are "nobody" then lol

[anon(10268214)]

I've seen a few comparison videos on YouTube b/w the KEY2 and Xiaomi devices with the 835 and 845 and only with a few games was the KEY2 a few seconds slower, but what's a few seconds with high demanding games? You have to wait for those heavy games to load on all phones anyway, so you probably won't even notice the extra 2-3 seconds if you didn't have something to compare it to. In all other areas, the KEY2 was able to open everything just as fast as the Xiaomi devices. In fact, at one point in the comparison video with 835 chipset, the reviewer re-opened apps from the Recents screen and the Xiaomi started to load the apps and games as if they had never been opened while the KEY2 continued them from the point where they had been minimized. So all in all, the 660, at least with the optimized KEY2, is as good as the 8xx in the Xiaomi devices and better when it comes to memory management.

I think the only thing that proves is how much a piece of garbage a Xiaomi is. Just imagine how nice the Key2 would run with that same 835 / 845!

[Troy Tiscareno]

You seem positive of that.

That's because it's (mostly) the truth. While BB did the design work and prototyping of the phones in-house, manufacturing has always been contracted out - as is incredibly common with nearly all tech products has has been since the Apple II, which was manufactured by Foxconn (Hon Hai).

BB had a small prototyping production facility in Waterloo from about 2004 until 2013, and it was used to produce phones when not otherwise occupied, but the percentage of total phone output was in the low-to-mid single digit percentages, as this line was never intended for normal production manufacturing.

RIM's primary contract manufacturer was Jabil Circuit (out of Florida, but with manufacturing in Mexico and overseas) from the mid-2000s until late summer of 2013, when the production run of the Z30 was complete, at which point BB and Jabil Circuit canceled the contract, as BB would no longer be able to maintain the minimum production output that Jabil required.

The remaining BB10 phones (Z3, Classic, Passport, Leap) were made by Wistron or Foxconn, at which point BB partnered with TCL for the DTEK series - which were the last phones made for and funded by BB/RIM. After that, BB simply licensed out the name, along with giving TCL the hardware design of the K1, which had been mostly developed in-house by BB but not fully completed/finalized when it was given to TCL.

[chain13]

"Just a button". Are you an industrial designer?

I'm not, but are you?
What? super-complex you said -.-
How complex it is compared to motorized part on dual aperture camera in note 9?
oh of course I can't compare it to that, it's a tool not toy.

[bobshine]

Whether it worked or not is irrelevant to my point. The fact is they HAD to charge that kind of money because it costs a lot more to build and support a low-volume, specialized product.

For instance: how many smartphone keyboard manufacturer is out there??? That alone could be one of the most costly component for BB

[iHadLastBB]

For instance: how many smartphone keyboard manufacturer is out there??? That alone could be one of the most costly component for BB

To your point I can only say



TCL made a ****ty product, it IS not acceptable and it is a nobraner that market will punish for this with sales.

Everyone else understand that you must give best specs if you want to compete in the market, just look at pocophone what they could do with 300 bucks retail price or whatever other..

What TCL did, it looks like they emptying their warehouse by refurbishing ****ty Alcatel phones and putting BB logos on them and playing on BB trust credit for BB loyalist.

How long they think we all gonna tolerate this??

They charge us like premium and we all can pay premium, but not for Alcatel ****ty specs, #keyboardnotenough , apple, huawei and samsung is our specs.

Long story short, if BB was collaborative with Huawei like Porsche Design, today we would have best PKB device ever made and everyone would want to have one like 10 years ago was with iPhone because it was different now it is the same like others, BB is different now but they failing by offering refurbished Alcatel crap no one wanted in the first place, no offence.

[Doityourself]

I'm having the same. both front and rear camera video is horrific!!!

[iHadLastBB]

I'm having the same. both front and rear camera video is horrific!!!

Exactly my point, ****ty "communication" device

[krazyatom]

Sigh...

Yes, nobody is gonna pay 650 for a slab with a SD660.

TCL was charging Blackberry Motion Slab for $450. $100 cheaper than keyone release price. It doesn’t matter if its PKB or VkB, tcl will charge premium.

[Troy Tiscareno]

TCL was charging Blackberry Motion Slab for $450. $100 cheaper than keyone release price. It doesn’t matter if its PKB or VkB, tcl will charge premium.

They have to. In addition to the costs that every other manufacturer has, they ALSO have to pay BB their licensing fees, AND they have to account for paying full price for components because they don't sell enough to order those components in high enough volumes to get a discount.

Do you think McDonalds pays the same for ground beef as you and I pay in the grocery store? Not even close - but McDonalds buys thousands of tons of beef every year. They get a fat discount. It's no different with smartphone parts. Samsung not only orders SoCs by the tens of millions, but they pay cash upfront and are able to get the best price. TCL can't get Samsung's prices, or even close, because of their small volumes. That's what happens when you aren't a market leader, and TCL isn't the only company in that position.

BBMo is kind of an experiment for TCL - to see if they can get enough people to buy BB-branded phones that they can not only cover costs, but make a profit. If it turns out they can't (and that's a very real possibility), they'll stop making BB-branded phones, and likely the BB brand will die off. Those are probably the only 2 options, though, and if you believe otherwise, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

[krazyatom]

They have to. In addition to the costs that every other manufacturer has, they ALSO have to pay BB their licensing fees, AND they have to account for paying full price for components because they don't sell enough to order those components in high enough volumes to get a discount.

Do you think McDonalds pays the same for ground beef as you and I pay in the grocery store? Not even close - but McDonalds buys thousands of tons of beef every year. They get a fat discount. It's no different with smartphone parts. Samsung not only orders SoCs by the tens of millions, but they pay cash upfront and are able to get the best price. TCL can't get Samsung's prices, or even close, because of their small volumes. That's what happens when you aren't a market leader, and TCL isn't the only company in that position.

BBMo is kind of an experiment for TCL - to see if they can get enough people to buy BB-branded phones that they can not only cover costs, but make a profit. If it turns out they can't (and that's a very real possibility), they'll stop making BB-branded phones, and likely the BB brand will die off. Those are probably the only 2 options, though, and if you believe otherwise, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

So basically TCL is charging $10 for Bigmac when it’s actually $5?

[chain13]

Sigh...

Yes, nobody is gonna pay 650 for a slab with a SD660.

Every slabs they released were overpriced at launch. Dtek50, motion, and now evolve & evolve x. Make sure you quoted this post...

[chain13]

Do you think McDonalds pays the same for ground beef as you and I pay in the grocery store? Not even close - but McDonalds buys thousands of tons of beef every year. They get a fat discount. It's no different with smartphone parts. Samsung not only orders SoCs by the tens of millions, but they pay cash upfront and are able to get the best price. TCL can't get Samsung's prices, or even close, because of their small volumes. That's what happens when you aren't a market leader, and TCL isn't the only company in that position.

Do you have valid reference to that?

[Troy Tiscareno]

Do you have valid reference to that?

I've been reading and learning about mobile technology since the late 1990s. I don't exactly keep each of the tens of thousands of links I've read on the subject, but the general facts tend to stick around. I'm sure you can Google if you like - the information is out there.

[chain13]

Jan Ole's review is out. CHeck this out
https://www.youtube.com/user/JanOleHelmbold/videos

[xubabi]

I'm not saying the 660 is a bad chipset. But to say a higher end chipset...like the 835 from last year's flagships...is not better, even when it comes to power consumption, is simply not true.

Of course newer chipsets keep getting better and better, I fully agree with this. But the crux of the pressure for constant upgrades lies in the fact that gains made in hardware are squandered by software.

The people benefiting the most from this new hardware are those who sell it to you, the phonemakers, and they benefit doubly:
1) they benefit by lowering their development costs (=lower software quality, compensated by the better chipset)
2) they benefit by charging you a higher price and justifying it with the presence of said better chipset

That's why I would not subscribe to "top specs" phones.

[xubabi]

TCL made a ****ty product, it IS not acceptable and it is a nobraner that market will punish for this with sales.

And, to me, this is the ironic tragedy of this whole enterprise. By making PKB phones they undertook a very difficult task in terms of engineering and sales. As a BB fan and PKB fan I can only support it and love to see it happening.

But then, the quality just sucks. From the problems posted here, it looks like it's an Alcatel-quality device and nothing can wash that away.

I wish these guys would get their act together, they've already achieved so much.

[anon(10268214)]

And, to me, this is the ironic tragedy of this whole enterprise. By making PKB phones they undertook a very difficult task in terms of engineering and sales. As a BB fan and PKB fan I can only support it and love to see it happening.

But then, the quality just sucks. From the problems posted here, it looks like it's an Alcatel-quality device and nothing can wash that away.

I wish these guys would get their act together, they've already achieved so much.

Honestly, I have no idea what are talking about with that statement. Sounds like you are already writing BBMo's obituary. Both the Key devices have been as good as any BlackBerry-made phone I ever owned. And it doesn't stop there...they even copied the box and the packaging. Sometimes, in fact, I think they have even done too good of a job because even some BlackBerry's mistakes have been emulated. Like screen lift.

I believe we will see even better things from them as they continue to rebuild the brand. At present, I have no reason to think otherwise.