[Ray III]

As the end draws near for BB10 (I'm still waiting for Jesus to come back too) I figured I would buy a used but like new Key2 off Amazon and try it out.

First impression, the thing is extremely uncomfortable to hold with its sharp edges. It also doesn't deviate much from a standard Android experience where you have to be able to reach all parts of the screen, therefore one-handed use is a fantasy. I did try downloading the apps Trackpad and Notification Drawer so I can press N to pull down notifications and have an on-screen icon to start using a mouse pointer for poorly designed apps with controls scattered to all areas of the screen. But it's still a hassle to use the thing without both hands, especially typing.

The fingerprint reader on the space bar is great as a convenient way to unlock the phone. The rest of the keyboard is a poor substitute for the Classic's keys. Because it's capacitive, the keys have a flat surface instead of being sculpted. The capacitive keys also try to screw everything up as you're typing, so I had to turn the word prediction and other nonsense off. In the end the only thing I can use the capacitive keyboard for is double-tapping it to control cursor placement in text, and scrolling screens. There is no attempt to replicate everything the trackpad could do.

As far as software, BlackBerry did a good job with their Dtek app that alerts you every time an app tries to fart. You can disable access to the microphone, location, etc. for known troublemaking or privacy violating apps. The phone seems fast enough. The Hub was a disappointment though. The "productivity tab" over the app you're using is useless and you're better off just tapping the home icon and then the hub icon. The Android Hub app doesn't even replicate the BB10 touch interface so it's not as easy to mark messages read or delete. The standard-issue apps such as calculator or notes are an absolute joke, I won't even go there. I haven't figured out yet if the LED is customizable, but it doesn't look promising.

The camera is OK. Not the huge improvement you'd expect with dual cameras and newer technology.

The Key2 has full access to Android apps and loads all websites correctly. That's about the only advantage it has over the Classic.

So when my Classic had a booting problem and I could no longer use it, instead of activating the Key2 I pulled my other Classic out of a drawer and got that going again. I'm going to use the Key2 over WiFi for my Android apps such as my security camera and to access my banking website, but for actually responding to messages in a productive manner, I'm going to use the Classic until it stops working over the network.

I hope OnwardMobility does a better job of making their device more productivity-oriented, with either a smaller screen or actual pointing device to make one-handed use possible.

[conite]

As the end draws near for BB10 (I'm still waiting for Jesus to come back too) I figured I would buy a used but like new Key2 off Amazon and try it out.

First impression, the thing is extremely uncomfortable to hold with its sharp edges. It also doesn't deviate much from a standard Android experience where you have to be able to reach all parts of the screen, therefore one-handed use is a fantasy. I did try downloading the apps Trackpad and Notification Drawer so I can press N to pull down notifications and have an on-screen icon to start using a mouse pointer for poorly designed apps with controls scattered to all areas of the screen. But it's still a hassle to use the thing without both hands, especially typing.

The fingerprint reader on the space bar is great as a convenient way to unlock the phone. The rest of the keyboard is a poor substitute for the Classic's keys. Because it's capacitive, the keys have a flat surface instead of being sculpted. The capacitive keys also try to screw everything up as you're typing, so I had to turn the word prediction and other nonsense off. In the end the only thing I can use the capacitive keyboard for is double-tapping it to control cursor placement in text, and scrolling screens. There is no attempt to replicate everything the trackpad could do.

As far as software, BlackBerry did a good job with their Dtek app that alerts you every time an app tries to fart. You can disable access to the microphone, location, etc. for known troublemaking or privacy violating apps. The phone seems fast enough. The Hub was a disappointment though. The "productivity tab" over the app you're using is useless and you're better off just tapping the home icon and then the hub icon. The Android Hub app doesn't even replicate the BB10 touch interface so it's not as easy to mark messages read or delete. The standard-issue apps such as calculator or notes are an absolute joke, I won't even go there. I haven't figured out yet if the LED is customizable, but it doesn't look promising.

The camera is OK. Not the huge improvement you'd expect with dual cameras and newer technology.

The Key2 has full access to Android apps and loads all websites correctly. That's about the only advantage it has over the Classic.

So when my Classic had a booting problem and I could no longer use it, instead of activating the Key2 I pulled my other Classic out of a drawer and got that going again. I'm going to use the Key2 over WiFi for my Android apps such as my security camera and to access my banking website, but for actually responding to messages in a productive manner, I'm going to use the Classic until it stops working over the network.

I hope OnwardMobility does a better job of making their device more productivity-oriented, with either a smaller screen or actual pointing device to make one-handed use possible.

You have to go cold turkey and jump in with both feet for an extended period. Once you do that, you'll never look back - like most of us.

Although, in the end, you're basically having a battle between two EOL devices.

[Ray III]

This was not intended to ruffle the feathers of anyone happily enjoying their Key2. I originally posted it in the Classic forum.

[curves2000]

Kind of off topic, but what booting problem did your Classic have?

Like it was mentioned above , you kind of need to use an Android for an extended period of time.

I'm still on BB 10 but when I do make the move to a Key series or OM device, I will hate it but it will have to happen.

BB 10 still does a lot of things very well but it's lacking in a lot of areas as well. It only has so much runway left.

Either way, good luck

Posted via CB10

[conite]

This was not intended to ruffle the feathers of anyone happily enjoying their Key2. I originally posted it in the Classic forum.

No feathers ruffled here. I'm just suggesting that your particular approach was doomed to fail.

In my 12+ years experience here, you either go all in or not at all when changing platforms.

[mikeath]

the good news is led is customisable.

[the_boon]

the good news is led is customisable.

The Light Flow Legacy app is amazing on Droids that have a notification LED.

[Ray III]

Kind of off topic, but what booting problem did your Classic have?

Like it was mentioned above , you kind of need to use an Android for an extended period of time.

I'm still on BB 10 but when I do make the move to a Key series or OM device, I will hate it but it will have to happen.

BB 10 still does a lot of things very well but it's lacking in a lot of areas as well. It only has so much runway left.

Either way, good luck

Posted via CB10

The Classic was getting really buggy (just had too much stuff on it) and when I tried to reboot it, it loaded up to 100% where it says Finalizing Device Setup but then nothing happens. I haven't spent much time on it but read something about reloading the OS without a wipe. I kept forgetting to back up my pictures in device memory for a year, so I'm pretty interested in any options.

In 2017 I had an Android phone for a couple months after my first Classic had some kind of battery issue. I couldn't stand it anymore and bought another Classic.

[Ray III]

the good news is led is customisable.

Thanks, I'll look for apps.

[Ben xfg]

Just wanted to say you can set the currency key to pull down the notification shade.
And for the notes app I'll pass, but what exactly is the issue with the calculator app?

[Ray III]

Just wanted to say you can set the currency key to pull down the notification shade.
And for the notes app I'll pass, but what exactly is the issue with the calculator app?

In the BB10 calculator app, type 5+5 and hit enter. Then /2 and enter. You get 10.
‎
In the Key2 calculator, you get an error because it doesn't use your last answer. Entering 5+5/2 yields 7.5. So unless you plan on thinking out your entire operation in advance and typing in (5+5)/2, it's useless.

And of course you can't just download a different calculator app because it won't recognize the BlackBerry keyboard.

[Chuck Finley69]

In the BB10 calculator app, type 5+5 and hit enter. Then /2 and enter. You get 10.
‎
In the Key2 calculator, you get an error because it doesn't use your last answer. Entering 5+5/2 yields 7.5. So unless you plan on thinking out your entire operation in advance and typing in (5+5)/2, it's useless.

And of course you can't just download a different calculator app because it won't recognize the BlackBerry keyboard.

Android users are used to all this. BBAndroid was built for Android users since their user base had the prospective scale of potential. BB10 users simply are expected to adapt or die as the saying goes.

[brookie229]

Android users are used to all this. BBAndroid was built for Android users since their user base had the prospective scale of potential. BB10 users simply are expected to adapt or die as the saying goes.

So just accept that 5+5/2=7.5 . Hands down the BB10 calculator is better than anything I've found on android imo.

[conite]

Entering 5+5/2 yields 7.5.

That's the way it should be.

[Chuck Finley69]

So just accept that 5+5/2=7.5 . Hands down the BB10 calculator is better than anything I've found on android imo.

By time of BB10 introduction and flameout in 2013, I was already dual carrying Android/iOS phone/tablet with BBOS/Windows phone/tablet combos in pocket and backpack.

I don't think of any of them as better just different. The OoO I learned as young algebra student is all think of as the rule.

I feel like that's why Android calculator is desiged as-is though. Some very smartest engineer making a reason case.

[RLeeSimon]

you mean it isn't 7.5 ??

[to boldly go]

In the new math there are no right answers. I mean wrong answers.

[eshropshire]

you mean it isn't 7.5 ??

You are correct. Division is always first unless you use ( ).

Just doue checked with wife who is an electrical engineer and brilliant with math.

Not sure in what universe 5+5/2=5 the correct answer is 7.5.

Just for kicks just tried both in my Android calculator.
5+5/2=7.5
(5+5)/2=5

Any other results I would consider a bug and report it to Google.

[eshropshire]

Maybe they are using Abbott and Costello math.

https://www.google.com/search?newwin...xVyO6cpos,st:0

[JAS0NB0URNE]

As the end draws near for BB10 (I'm still waiting for Jesus to come back too) I figured I would buy a used but like new Key2 off Amazon and try it out.

First impression, the thing is extremely uncomfortable to hold with its sharp edges. It also doesn't deviate much from a standard Android experience where you have to be able to reach all parts of the screen, therefore one-handed use is a fantasy. I did try downloading the apps Trackpad and Notification Drawer so I can press N to pull down notifications and have an on-screen icon to start using a mouse pointer for poorly designed apps with controls scattered to all areas of the screen. But it's still a hassle to use the thing without both hands, especially typing.

The fingerprint reader on the space bar is great as a convenient way to unlock the phone. The rest of the keyboard is a poor substitute for the Classic's keys. Because it's capacitive, the keys have a flat surface instead of being sculpted. The capacitive keys also try to screw everything up as you're typing, so I had to turn the word prediction and other nonsense off. In the end the only thing I can use the capacitive keyboard for is double-tapping it to control cursor placement in text, and scrolling screens. There is no attempt to replicate everything the trackpad could do.

As far as software, BlackBerry did a good job with their Dtek app that alerts you every time an app tries to fart. You can disable access to the microphone, location, etc. for known troublemaking or privacy violating apps. The phone seems fast enough. The Hub was a disappointment though. The "productivity tab" over the app you're using is useless and you're better off just tapping the home icon and then the hub icon. The Android Hub app doesn't even replicate the BB10 touch interface so it's not as easy to mark messages read or delete. The standard-issue apps such as calculator or notes are an absolute joke, I won't even go there. I haven't figured out yet if the LED is customizable, but it doesn't look promising.

The camera is OK. Not the huge improvement you'd expect with dual cameras and newer technology.

The Key2 has full access to Android apps and loads all websites correctly. That's about the only advantage it has over the Classic.

So when my Classic had a booting problem and I could no longer use it, instead of activating the Key2 I pulled my other Classic out of a drawer and got that going again. I'm going to use the Key2 over WiFi for my Android apps such as my security camera and to access my banking website, but for actually responding to messages in a productive manner, I'm going to use the Classic until it stops working over the network.

I hope OnwardMobility does a better job of making their device more productivity-oriented, with either a smaller screen or actual pointing device to make one-handed use possible.

Very surprised to see the unable to operate with one hand in the OP. This phone is about perfect size for one-handed operation and I have average sized hands.

Camera is certainly "meh". You don't buy a BlackBerry expecting the greatest camera performance, though.

BlackBerry HUB was much better, imo, when incoming and outgoing texts both were in the HUB.

Many of the issues you face, however, are issues that many of us in here have, are, or will be facing: what's next for us after our phones are unable to be the productivity workhorses we love them for?

Let's hope Onward Mobility comes through clutch for those in need of a phone with a physical keyboard.

[elcheapodeluxe]

Some of your observations I agree with even after two years of use, and others I do not. The truth is that if you want a PKB phone that runs modern applications - which are often a necessity - there are not a lot of options.

Swipe gestures - better on my Classic. Do I wish I had a trackpad like my Classic did? Absolutely. Do I find the capacitive keyboard more harmful than good? Yep - I turn it off immediately on all of my droidberries. The stupid tab that sticks over your screen for productivity info? Agree - I turn it off and return to the home screen and just hit the hub icon.

My Classic couldn't pull up my various airline apps when I travel 40 weeks a year. Some used to work but with play services tie-ins that became fewer and fewer and then none. That's a HARD no - I live on those when I'm on the road. My classic couldn't access my CRM or helpdesk apps or company expense apps. Hard no. My newspapers. My home automation. Messaging. Eventually even Dropbox stuff I use all the time didn't work. Things like maps were workarounds at best. Now that most of my rental cars support Android Auto? Wouldn't want to go back to the standalone gps in a bag. Productivity is way more than a quick swipe to get to your hub. The classic fell woefully behind on MY productivity.

What I'm getting at is that in every way pretty much I find the phone runs android best when you use it like an android phone. Only differentiating factor is the PKB - and why I'll never be in the same camp with the people who want a slab BB. As an Android phone its biggest shortcomings are the crappy camera (yes - that's a productivity thing when you're trying to scan documents and stuff, but also just a nicety) and a lack of wireless charging we enjoyed on the Priv. It's not going to be the classic with it's great gesture UI but lets saddle up to reality and make it the best android phone it can be because that's ultimately what it is.

[Ray III]

You are correct. Division is always first unless you use ( ).

Just doue checked with wife who is an electrical engineer and brilliant with math.

Not sure in what universe 5+5/2=5 the correct answer is 7.5.

Just for kicks just tried both in my Android calculator.
5+5/2=7.5
(5+5)/2=5

Any other results I would consider a bug and report it to Google.

Sorry for taking so long to respond. The issue isn't my understanding of order of operations. It's that on a BB10 device you can type 5+5 and enter and get 10. Then you can type / 2 and get 5. Same way a desktop calculator has worked for decades. This makes calculating much simpler than having to write out

(((59 - 20) / 0.75 - 10 - 15) * 0.75 - 5 - 7) / 0.75 - 20

And then you realize you are negative instead of ending up near zero so you have to start all over again. (This is an example something I actually do at work)

Anyways, the workaround on the Key2 is to have to type 5 + 5, enter, 10 (the answer given) / 2, enter. As long as you don't get into a lot of decimals.

[Ray III]

If there are words missing from my post, it's because I typed it on my Key2 which randomly deletes words. And I have to capitalize every letter and type every apostrophe because you can't disable autocorrect without also disabling word substitution. Progress marches on I guess.

[AhabSnake]

I love my key 2. Honestly don't know how i could ever get used to touch screen slabs.