[bb10adopter111]

But with legally acquired data, let’s assume possible level of profitability

I have absolutely no problem with a consumer who gives informed consent to have ads on their phones or to share data in return for other considerations, such as free or reduced prices services.

But carriers and OEMs claiming that they are entitled to our attention and our data because they didn't price their products properly in the first place and they need more money is poppycock.

If they want to make a case for a lower price product in return for personal data and viewing ads, they need to include those terms prior to purchase.

My name, phone numbers, photographs, apps, locations, email addresses, contacts, calendar and browsing history are my personal data, and I choose not to share that information with any company or service beyond what is required for them to provide the service. I expect my devices to enable that privacy model. If they cannot, then I won't buy them.

TCL's excuse that they meant to violate someone else's privacy instead of mine isn't satisfactory.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[cribble2k]

You just don't have these issues with Pixel Devices.

Android 10, December Security patch...

[conite]

I have absolutely no problem with a consumer who gives informed consent to have ads on their phones or to share data in return for other considerations, such as free or reduced prices services.

A difficulty arises if opting out becomes too easy. If more than 1% opt-out, the system comes apart for everyone.

It's like the anti-vaxers. They may feel it's ok for them to extract themselves from the system, but if too many people do it, the whole thing collapses for 100% of the population.

I'm not sure what the answer is honestly. Not everyone can afford to pay the actual price of services used (easily $100-200 a year). If all of the wealthy people decide to pay for services and opt-out of advertising and anonymous data release, then (after the ad system collapses as a result) there wouldn't be enough money left in the system to make cheap phones.

Informed consent for everything, and the ability to easily opt-out would be a revolution, and the bottom half of the socio-economic class would suffer the most by far.

Not to mention, the value of most services to each of us decreases dramatically without everyone else's data. That in turn, lowers the price we would be willing to pay for them, which in turn makes it economically non-viable to provide them.

Unfortunately, in order to function, the "system" requires that 99% of people either don't know or don't care that their data is being used.

[anon(10599419)]

An app doesn't have to steal account passwords to be intrusive. Simply passing along location data or information about apps used or Web browsing history without affirmative permission Hub the user is also a breach of privacy and security.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

That was yesterday. Today, data = currency. Location data is currency and by enabling GPS, you subject it to collection. Even buying a phone that outlines conditions at activation is consent. Let me give you an example:

An accountant in NYC leaves his apartment at 730am every weekday, taking the same train to the same location and making the return trip at 6pm. He uses Google maps in order to receive live updates regarding his specific subway line(s), delays, crowding and ETA. This is a convenience he uses. Although he has enabled its use and the data is anonymized, it goes to Google and can be sold to advertisers. What can be implied from this data?

This is his commute. The departure point in the morning is his home and the departure point in the evening is his workplace.

The more convenience you utilize, the more privacy you must forfeit. If you don't like it, turn it off or minimize its collection. The most radical option is to forego the smartphone entirely and buy a simple flip phone instead.

[rwilliams1867]

Wow. What a roller coaster of emotions in the last hour of reading. I'm getting a scotch.

Just to be clear, this is what I have done to "safe" my Key2. All good?

in Settings-Apps: find "Preview" , clear data, disable draw over other apps, force stop. Don't touch ever again.

delete "Apps" app if it is there (I did have it).

in Power Center app, disable Preview from automatically opening in the background.

check Crackberry forums more often

[conite]

Wow. What a roller coaster of emotions in the last hour of reading. I'm getting a scotch.

Just to be clear, this is what I have done to "safe" my Key2. All good?

in Settings-Apps: find "Preview" , clear data, disable draw over other apps, force stop. Don't touch ever again.

delete "Apps" app if it is there (I did have it).

in Power Center app, disable Preview from automatically opening in the background.

check Crackberry forums more often

That should do it.

[rwilliams1867]

That should do it.

Whew. Thanks Conite.

[bb10adopter111]

That was yesterday. Today, data = currency. Location data is currency and by enabling GPS, you subject it to collection. Even buying a phone that outlines conditions at activation is consent. Let me give you an example:

An accountant in NYC leaves his apartment at 730am every weekday, taking the same train to the same location and making the return trip at 6pm. He uses Google maps in order to receive live updates regarding his specific subway line(s), delays, crowding and ETA. This is a convenience he uses. Although he has enabled its use and the data is anonymized, it goes to Google and can be sold to advertisers. What can be implied from this data?

This is his commute. The departure point in the morning is his home and the departure point in the evening is his workplace.

The more convenience you utilize, the more privacy you must forfeit. If you don't like it, turn it off or minimize its collection. The most radical option is to forego the smartphone entirely and buy a simple flip phone instead.

I understand all of that very well, and I take a number of simple steps to minimize the amount of personally identifiable information about me that can be collected, including pretty much all of the information you mention.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[bb10adopter111]

A difficulty arises if opting out becomes too easy. If more than 1% opt-out, the system comes apart for everyone.

It's like the anti-vaxers. They may feel it's ok for them to extract themselves from the system, but if too many people do it, the whole thing collapses for 100% of the population.

I'm not sure what the answer is honestly. Not everyone can afford to pay the actual price of services used (easily $100-200 a year). If all of the wealthy people decide to pay for services and opt-out of advertising and anonymous data release, then (after the ad system collapses as a result) there wouldn't be enough money left in the system to make cheap phones.

Informed consent for everything, and the ability to easily opt-out would be a revolution, and the bottom half of the socio-economic class would suffer the most by far.

Not to mention, the value of most services to each of us decreases dramatically without everyone else's data. That in turn, lowers the price we would be willing to pay for them, which in turn makes it economically non-viable to provide them.

Unfortunately, in order to function, the "system" requires that 99% of people either don't know or don't care that their data is being used.

Did you really just compare the commercial surveillance economy to vaccinations? LOL. You, sir, are a tech utopian!

I am much more dystopian. I believe that, left unchecked, the current system will lead to the loss of freedom and liberty of the individual.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[conite]

Did you really just compare the commercial surveillance economy to vaccinations? LOL. You, sir, are a tech utopian!

I am much more dystopian. I believe that, left unchecked, the current system will lead to the loss of freedom and liberty of the individual.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

Well, the example was only used to make the point that the system only works if the vast majority are on board.

Plus, I simply do not see an alternative revenue model that would allow smartphones for almost everyone - and not just the elite. In addition, if other people don't share their Waze data (for instance), it becomes useless to me.

[bb10adopter111]

Well, the example was only used to make the point that the system only works if the vast majority are on board.

Plus, I simply do not see an alternative revenue model that would allow smartphones for almost everyone - and not just the elite. In addition, if other people don't share their Waze data (for instance), it becomes useless to me.

Commercial broadcast television and radio existed for decades and made tons of money without targeting individuals. Sampling, statistics and demographics still work.

And, virtually the entire current system could work exactly as it does now, so long as people could revoke and reset their credentials, and keep them separate from their actual identity.

There are some very well funded blockchain-based initiatives that would allow people to pay with their data without giving up control of it, and I see that as a potential solution because it rewards companies like Google who work hard to create value for users, while punishing companies that bait and switch.

Such a solution would allow a user to share data for services with provider A, but would prevent provider A from sharing the user's personally identifiable information with provider B. Moreover, the user could revoke the use of his or her data from provider A at any time (depending on the terms of the contract). Such a solution is a decade or more away, but it's a market-based solution that allows users to decide for themselves how much data they are willing to share, with whom, and for what price.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[conite]

Commercial broadcast television and radio existed for decades and made tons of money without targeting individuals. Sampling, statistics and demographics still work.

And, virtually the entire current system could work exactly as it does now, so long as people could revoke and reset their credentials, and keep them separate from their actual identity.

There are some very well funded blockchain-based initiatives that would allow people to pay with their data without giving up control of it, and I see that as a potential solution because it rewards companies like Google who work hard to create value for users, while punishing companies that bait and switch.

Such a solution would allow a user to share data for services with provider A, but would prevent provider A from sharing the user's personally identifiable information with provider B. Moreover, the user could revoke the use of his or her data from provider A at any time (depending on the terms of the contract). Such a solution is a decade or more away, but it's a market-based solution that allows users to decide for themselves how much data they are willing to share, with whom, and for what price.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

Non-targeted ads would only bring a small fraction of the required revenues.

This is the dilemma, as we are all used to very expensive services and enjoy the crowd-sourced data to improve them enormously.

[bb10adopter111]

Non-targeted ads would only bring a small fraction of the required revenues.

This is the dilemma, as we are all used to very expensive services and enjoy the crowd-sourced data to improve them enormously.

I trust entrepreneurs to figure it out, because the alternative is worse for them, as it becomes easier and easier to create fake accounts. I can spin up a complete alias with a Facebook, Google Voice, and other similar social media accounts in less than 30 minutes for less than $3.

I use 1-2 different aliases on each of my six devices. I use a different email address for every online account, never use my carrier number, and make all of my online purchases anonymously. I'm an outlier now, but the services I use are growing quickly, similar to VPNs, and it really isn't much work other than the initial setup.

I also use TOR, Brave browser, Firefox Focus, DuckDuckGo, and segregated containers in Firefox with Noscripts, Privacy Badger, etc. as well as encrypted DNS and a VPN.

I think that online advertisers would rather have a system where I use a single credential across the Internet where they can trust my actual demographic information and track me successfully. And I'd be happy to let them as soon as I can be sure they are not tying that information to my real-life ID.

So, it's up to the marketplace to figure out how to balance the commercial interests of the tech companies with the aspirations of users. Or they will get a generation of sophisticated users opting out. I know lots of kids who only use carefully constructed aliases. They simply never share their real information on their phones or online accounts.

Frankly, this isn't radical. It's what gamers have been doing since the start of the Internet, and it's what we do here on CB, unless your name really is Conite!

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[wtigga]

Well, as some predicted: users in Russia are saying that starting today, "Likee" and some "Notable" apps are delivered via System Update app instead of Preview.

Wonder if this is also a "Server misconfiguration and was intended for Alcatel only".

upd: darn, it even calls this TicTok knock-off "likee" a "System app". A sad joke for sure.

[yybenedb]

It seems to me that the security ramifications of this event are being grossly underestimated and dangerously whitewashed.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

It seems to me that the security ramifications of this event are being grossly underestimated and dangerously whitewashed.

Does go to show why many never considered TCL phones as being secure. You had TCL Apps (some of which are 3rd party) on the phone... doesn't matter if BlackBerry was injecting the OS on the phones. You have to be able to trust everyone involved, or at least the one selling you the phone.... and that wasn't BlackBerry.

[bb10adopter111]

Does go to show why many never considered TCL phones as being secure. You had TCL Apps (some of which are 3rd party) on the phone... doesn't matter if BlackBerry was injecting the OS on the phones. You have to be able to trust everyone involved, or at least the one selling you the phone.... and that wasn't BlackBerry.

Absolutely right. The partnership with BlackBerry was the only reason I was willing to accept a little risk with a mainland Chinese firm. Without the incentive of the partnership, TCL is no different than the other mainland OEMs.

For the record, I am not against China as a trading partner, but the government has long had a very aggressive industrial espionage policy that had only gotten worse amidst the current tensions. They are also a potential military adversary. So, I don't advocate the use of Chinese networked products except when tested and integrated by more trustworthy OEMs.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[anon(10387168)]

And this is just the tip of the iceberg! 5G networks offered at deep discounts like Huawei will pose the next level of risk. In chasing the all mighty profit $$$ some governments and corporations are on board with the deep savings Huawei is offering while whitewashing and minimizing the risk scenario in order to pacify their constituents and clients. I do understand the monetary data collection model as necessary, however, as stated here, it is a double edged sword and carries great risk with its proposition of convenience!

Posted via my Passport

[Chuck Finley69]

And this is just the tip of the iceberg! 5G networks offered at deep discounts like Huawei will pose the next level of risk. In chasing the all mighty profit $$$ some governments and corporations are on board with the deep savings Huawei is offering while whitewashing and minimizing the risk scenario in order to pacify their constituents and clients. I do understand the monetary data collection model as necessary, however, as stated here, it is a double edged sword and carries great risk with its proposition of convenience!

Posted via my Passport

Down south of your border here, the controversy is real as company is excluded from USA networks and bidding process.

[anon(10622733)]

Down south of your border here, the controversy is real as company is excluded from USA networks and bidding process.

But not because of security issues... politics.

[Chuck Finley69]

But not because of security issues... politics.

I’ve never trusted any communist state especially them.

[IceCreamPlz]

We are talking about TCL BlackBerry Mobile devices.
Alcatel was brought into the discussion because TCL is the maker and they pulled the same stunt with Alcatel last year. Totally relevant.

Not irrelevant. Alcatel is also TCL.

[IceCreamPlz]

In fact, Google even identifies our BlackBerry devices as "Alcatel." Next time you search, see the "client id" in the address bar for your search.

[Bbnivende]

I’ve never trusted any communist state especially them.

I agree but for different reasons - human rights are not respected in China.

[the_boon]

I've never seen a single thread get so many posts in less than a week