01-12-20 12:00 PM
187 ... 5678
tools
  1. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The biggest expense for the store is the dedicated display slot. There was a dedicated a spot to displaying it, all set up and no one (tcl sales rep etc) put anything there--for almost 2 months. Not even a photo. Not even a photo. In that valuable display slot.
    Tcl did not do their homework. Tcl could have, at the very least. Provided a photo. But a demo should have been provided. I think the guy said that one was supposed to come from the distributor.

    Our business has been selling retail in a very competitive market for years. A dedicated spot (which they were given), is gold. They squandered it.
    How many times do I have to say that in Canada, BlackBerry Mobile was supported by the major carriers and many stores had demo models and still the sales were meagre.
    01-10-20 01:47 AM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Have you ever considered why Best Buy didn't buy enough to put them in every store? Or why they didn't buy enough to put out a display device in the few stores that they stocked? Like all major retailers, they have a ton of sales data, and they know what sells and where it sells best, and they clearly didn't have a lot of faith that the BBMo Key phones would sell. Essentially, they stocked just enough that if someone called or looked on the website, they could drive to a store within 50 miles and buy it, but it wasn't going to move enough units for Best Buy to care about it. If a store is only moving 20-30 devices (or less!) per year, that's not a product that Best Buy really even wants, and I'm sure they only took them as a favor and to focus on online sales.

    Selling products at retail has many costs associated with it for the retailer, so retailers want to stock products that sell through quickly and in volume, and that are rarely returned. This doesn't apply to just BB or even just to smartphones, but ANY product - but we all know that the Key phones are the opposite of that. How many people here have talked about returning a Key phone because it had some flaw or because they couldn't get used to it? That rarely happens with other brands, especially in relationship to the number of units sold.

    PKB phones have been in a death spiral for 8 or 9 years now, selling fewer and fewer every year, and honestly the reason why doesn't even matter at this point - what matters is that the sales volume is so low that it just can't be done profitably anymore, and that's all she wrote.
    Exactly, plus Best buy has great analytics on people searching for products on its Web site. If they had seen interest they would have stocked more devices.

    People see how Samsung and Apple market devices and think, "Why didn't BBMo do that?" And the answer is simple: because for TCL the whole point of licensing BlackBerry was that the brand would attract interest for less marketing effort than their in-house Alcatel brand.

    Once carriers and Enterprise turned their noses up at the Motion, it was game over for BBMo unless their KEY phones sparked a PKB comeback, which obviously didn't happen.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    chain13 likes this.
    01-10-20 06:46 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Exactly, plus Best buy has great analytics on people searching for products on its Web site. If they had seen interest they would have stocked more devices.

    People see how Samsung and Apple market devices and think, "Why didn't BBMo do that?" And the answer is simple: because for TCL the whole point of licensing BlackBerry was that the brand would attract interest for less marketing effort than their in-house Alcatel brand.

    Once carriers and Enterprise turned their noses up at the Motion, it was game over for BBMo unless their KEY phones sparked a PKB comeback, which obviously didn't happen.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    Some here taught that TCL would spend.... well billions on reinventing the Brand. TCL wasn't looking to see what they could do to reinvent the brand, they "taught" it had enough value with enterprise that it would sell itself.

    Yes they should have made deal with Best Buy (and Carrier's while they were at it) to setup displays and have plenty of stock on hand, maybe a few posters or other in store marketing. Should have hired 100's of sales representatives to assist in setting up displays and keeping them maintained and training local sales staff. Should have given everyone working at a Best Buy a free phone... Should have given away 100's of free phones on CrackBerry every week.

    In the end it might have moved the sales bar a little.... but the phones were just mediocre hardware package that were way overpriced, with a bunch of buttons covering up a portion of the display. And the phone's compatible with carries was hit and miss.

    What they really needed to do was offer a KEY2 LE with the KEY2 hardware package for about $399 and a KEY2 with the same hardware as the OnePlus 6 for about the same price. And have it on all the major carriers.... that an only that wold have really made a difference.

    But in the end, I'm not sure enough people want a bunch of buttons blocking some of their display.... No matter what they would have done, they might not have reached a point that made any of this viable.
    chain13 likes this.
    01-10-20 08:40 AM
  4. the_boon's Avatar
    Some here taught that TCL would spend.... well billions on reinventing the Brand. TCL wasn't looking to see what they could do to reinvent the brand, they "taught" it had enough value with enterprise that it would sell itself.

    Yes they should have made deal with Best Buy (and Carrier's while they were at it) to setup displays and have plenty of stock on hand, maybe a few posters or other in store marketing. Should have hired 100's of sales representatives to assist in setting up displays and keeping them maintained and training local sales staff. Should have given everyone working at a Best Buy a free phone... Should have given away 100's of free phones on CrackBerry every week.

    In the end it might have moved the sales bar a little.... but the phones were just mediocre hardware package that were way overpriced, with a bunch of buttons covering up a portion of the display. And the phone's compatible with carries was hit and miss.

    What they really needed to do was offer a KEY2 LE with the KEY2 hardware package for about $399 and a KEY2 with the same hardware as the OnePlus 6 for about the same price. And have it on all the major carriers.... that an only that wold have really made a difference.

    But in the end, I'm not sure enough people want a bunch of buttons blocking some of their display.... No matter what they would have done, they might not have reached a point that made any of this viable.
    There are also those who don't need a piece of glass covering up precious keyboard space
    Sigewif, MB64 and chain13 like this.
    01-10-20 09:03 AM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    There are also those who don't need a piece of glass covering up precious keyboard space
    Sure, but that’s problem, not enough of those of us left so we’re extinct
    01-10-20 09:34 AM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Sure, but that’s problem, not enough of those of us left so we’re extinct
    A species is added to the list when it is determined to be endangered or threatened because of any of the following factors:

    • the present or threatened destruction, modification, or curtailment of its habitat or range;
    • overutilization for commercial, recreational, scientific, or educational purposes;
    • disease or predation;
    • the inadequacy of existing regulatory mechanisms; or
    • other natural or manmade factors affecting its survival.


    There are two ways in which a species may come to be listed under the ESA: through the petition process or through the candidate assessment process.


    I think if you count old age as a disease.... all five apply. So someone should start a petition process and we might be able to save the few that are left....
    Sigewif and pdr733 like this.
    01-10-20 10:44 AM
  7. C_McD's Avatar


    Plus a new 5G phone for under $500.
    But will the NA version be available on VZW.

    My KEYᵒⁿᵉ is getting long in the tooth and I'll need to move on - if there's no Key3 - but want to stay with VZW if possible.
    01-10-20 01:06 PM
  8. C_McD's Avatar
    My Z30 would still be my daily driver if I hadn't had to move because of business app availability.

    My KEYᵒⁿᵉ is getting old now, so I'm shopping for another Android if Key3 doesn't crop up.

    BlackBerry Suite is my preference either way.
    01-10-20 01:09 PM
  9. the_boon's Avatar
    But will the NA version be available on VZW.

    My KEYᵒⁿᵉ is getting long in the tooth and I'll need to move on - if there's no Key3 - but want to stay with VZW if possible.
    If you want to be on Verizon, the LE is the best option
    phuoc likes this.
    01-10-20 01:13 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    But will the NA version be available on VZW.

    My KEYᵒⁿᵉ is getting long in the tooth and I'll need to move on - if there's no Key3 - but want to stay with VZW if possible.
    There's no Key3.
    gjh1978, John Albert and phuoc like this.
    01-10-20 11:44 PM
  11. falbo's Avatar
    There's no Key3.
    There's nothing like breaking it to him gently; -)
    01-10-20 11:56 PM
  12. Apple Aya's Avatar
    Truth is that the smartphone business is slowing down, not just BB but all major brands have seen declining sales. The market is saturated.

    Also is a very competitive space with Chinese manufacturers being subsidized by the Chinese government to buy up market share. Unless you have massive brand power like the iPhone, you're not going to be able to compete against those types of market conditions.

    Is there a place for niche products? Sure, but it seems that nobody has figured out yet how big the market is for PKB devices...maybe what that form factor needs is a few years break and a reset. Maybe in like 4 or 5 years...some big OEM can make a big splash and say " THE PKB IS BACK or BLACKBERRY IS BACK". Right now the PKB form factor is tired, fatigued and seen as a boomer thing...and if you haven't noticed nobody likes boomers atm lol.

    Just like Batman and Star Trek, the PKB form factor needs a reboot. Begging for scraps of sales based in a shrinking niche space in a shrinking industry is not a good business idea and TCL can clearly see this.

    I say pack it up boys and let's wait a few years.
    01-11-20 08:26 AM
  13. falbo's Avatar
    Truth is that the smartphone business is slowing down, not just BB but all major brands have seen declining sales. The market is saturated.

    Also is a very competitive space with Chinese manufacturers being subsidized by the Chinese government to buy up market share. Unless you have massive brand power like the iPhone, you're not going to be able to compete against those types of market conditions.

    Is there a place for niche products? Sure, but it seems that nobody has figured out yet how big the market is for PKB devices...maybe what that form factor needs is a few years break and a reset. Maybe in like 4 or 5 years...some big OEM can make a big splash and say " THE PKB IS BACK or BLACKBERRY IS BACK". Right now the PKB form factor is tired, fatigued and seen as a boomer thing...and if you haven't noticed nobody likes boomers atm lol.

    Just like Batman and Star Trek, the PKB form factor needs a reboot. Begging for scraps of sales based in a shrinking niche space in a shrinking industry is not a good business idea and TCL can clearly see this.

    I say pack it up boys and let's wait a few years.
    I agree with you. I think the k2 was launched too soon after the K1 as the market for PKB phones is relatively small and most of us want our devices to last 2 to 3 years at least.
    If a K3 was released now I wouldn't buy it as I haven't had the K2 for a year yet. Maybe in another year or two a K3 would sell more due to K1 and K2 owners upgrading.
    Of course we all have our own opinions.


    Posted via my beautiful priv
    01-11-20 08:45 AM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    You can't have a staff sit around for a year with nothing to do. If you were a big company like Apple or Samsung with plenty of other products, you could (in theory) release a PKB phone every other year if that's what the demand called for, but for a much smaller company (or a division of a smaller company, like BBMo) that have no other products, if you can't put out new devices every year, your business isn't viable.
    01-11-20 02:05 PM
  15. falbo's Avatar
    Catch-22
    01-11-20 02:08 PM
  16. Crusader03's Avatar
    The Elephant in the room may very well have been that the manufacturer was a Chinese Company and mid level at that with all the security concerns that entails. That I believe is a big reason many existing BlackBerry users said pass! Also, could it be that Enterprise also gave it a hard pass in part because of the same reason. The K1 Enterprise agreement was broken in due course and reaffirmed their non confidence, the K2 was never sanctioned! Mistrust in Chinese Manufacturers is an inconvenient reality, however a reality none the less!

    Posted via my Passport
    whatnow00 and cyberdoggie like this.
    01-11-20 05:05 PM
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The Elephant in the room may very well have been that the manufacturer was a Chinese Company and mid level at that with all the security concerns that entails. That I believe is a big reason many existing BlackBerry users said pass! Also, could it be that Enterprise also gave it a hard pass in part because of the same reason. The K1 Enterprise agreement was broken in due course and reaffirmed their non confidence, the K2 was never sanctioned! Mistrust in Chinese Manufacturers is an inconvenient reality, however a reality none the less!

    Posted via my Passport
    If 99.9% of the general population is not interested in a PKB - why should Enterprise be any different? Enterprise in NA wants tried and true. Good carrier support and device reliability.
    01-12-20 12:43 AM
  18. krzyabn's Avatar
    I think the demand for PKB's isn't obviously there, BBMo/TCL should just do what Unihertz did for the Titan (the bulky Passport wannabe), and crowd fund it. Throw up a KEY3 by a semi-reputable company like BBMo or even BlackBerry, and charge a fair amount for how ever many units will be produced, and call it a day. Run it for a good 6 months, so those interested have time to purchase it, and maybe make another 25% for the site for web orders and that's done(set aside units for RMA's, warranty, etc).

    I usually hate campaigns like that(I've lost probably a thousand US over the last decade backing maybe 5 or so products that never "made it"). But if BBMo had it's name on it, I'd trust it.
    01-12-20 03:56 AM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Neither BB nor TCL have any interest in a Kickstarter-volume project, and neither does any major manufacturer. They could spend the same time and money on something with a much larger return, so it's not worth the opportunity costs for them.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    01-12-20 04:18 AM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Neither BB nor TCL have any interest in a Kickstarter-volume project, and neither does any major manufacturer. They could spend the same time and money on something with a much larger return, so it's not worth the opportunity costs for them.
    If you are a Chinese OEM you might find yourself in a situation that you have overbuilt your capacity. You can not make another slab phone variation that will add to your overall sales. If you could make an another model that sells an additional 700 to a million units a year and you can make a profit on each one, you do it.

    It is a bit of a fallacy that a PKB phone costs more to produce. If you could licence a good PKB patent for $10 a unit and not try replicate the BlackBerry experience , it could work. Basically it would just be a slab that happens to have a PKB.

    There are potential customers who just want reliable phone. You cannot make a BlackBerry but how about a phone that has a modular keyboard that can be easily be replaced. You could cut down on costs by making a chassis that can be a slab or pkb.

    What you can not do is to make a crappy phone.
    the_boon likes this.
    01-12-20 07:18 AM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If 99.9% of the general population is not interested in a PKB - why should Enterprise be any different? Enterprise in NA wants tried and true. Good carrier support and device reliability.
    That's true for PKBs, but I don't think anyone at BlackBerry Mobile or BlackBerry Limited thought that PKB phones would be their only or even their top-selling phone when they signed their licensing agreement. They were looking at the mid-range enterprise phone segment and led with the Motion as a rugged, mid-range, secure slab for work. When they couldn't gain traction with distribution partners for a BlackBerry slab, they had to pivot and hope they could grow the PKB segment instead. That was a long shot from the start, and it's not surprising they failed.

    I do think that the enterprise segment would have been much more likely to take a gamble on a premium-priced mid-range secure slab from an OEM without ties to the Chinese government. If what you're charging more for is enterprise-grade security, a device built in China, where the government routinely infiltrates tech export companies and has a policy of corporate espionage, is not an easy sell.

    I would not allow Chinese OEM phones (including my KEYone) on an internal network that held sensitive information, especially my company's IP.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    01-12-20 10:12 AM
  22. Bbnivende's Avatar
    That's true for PKBs, but I don't think anyone at BlackBerry Mobile or BlackBerry Limited thought that PKB phones would be their only or even their top-selling phone when they signed their licensing agreement. They were looking at the mid-range enterprise phone segment and led with the Motion as a rugged, mid-range, secure slab for work. When they couldn't gain traction with distribution partners for a BlackBerry slab, they had to pivot and hope they could grow the PKB segment instead. That was a long shot from the start, and it's not surprising they failed.

    I do think that the enterprise segment would have been much more likely to take a gamble on a premium-priced mid-range secure slab from an OEM without ties to the Chinese government. If what you're charging more for is enterprise-grade security, a device built in China, where the government routinely infiltrates tech export companies and has a policy of corporate espionage, is not an easy sell.

    I would not allow Chinese OEM phones (including my KEYone) on an internal network that held sensitive information, especially my company's IP.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    You have to wonder why Chen thought it would be OK to have a Chinese company take over your brand. The optic’s were never good.
    whatnow00 and cyberdoggie like this.
    01-12-20 10:31 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    You have to wonder why Chen thought it would be OK to have a Chinese company take over your brand. The optic’s were never good.
    Because the only alternative was closing shop.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    01-12-20 10:46 AM
  24. the_boon's Avatar
    You have to wonder why Chen thought it would be OK to have a Chinese company take over your brand. The optic’s were never good.
    That's a non-issue. Most phones are made in China and TCL is decent at manufacturing (which I can say after having tried the Titan).

    They're not on Apple/Samsung/OnePlus levels of quality though.
    01-12-20 10:56 AM
  25. drobbie's Avatar
    Because the only alternative was closing shop.
    Yet the shop still closed.
    BlackBerry outsourced it's reputation. It did not work.
    phuoc and whatnow00 like this.
    01-12-20 10:56 AM
187 ... 5678

Similar Threads

  1. Wikipedia No Longer Works On Playbook
    By tulitig8r in forum BlackBerry PlayBook
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-22-20, 11:35 AM
  2. Z10 mass storage mode username and password
    By Markygee in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-07-20, 10:35 AM
  3. New phone, no gps?
    By Zoeawar in forum BlackBerry KEYone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-07-20, 07:13 AM
  4. TCL Folding screen phone!?!?!
    By FishhPoohh in forum Rehab & Off-Topic Lounge
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-06-20, 09:57 PM
  5. Is the camera better than the LE version (and KeyOne)
    By an9ie in forum BlackBerry KEY2
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-06-20, 04:37 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD