01-12-20 12:00 PM
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  1. Sigewif's Avatar
    "Displaying" a phone like this is downright embarrassing.

    Who the hell is gonna look at a label and say "hmm, ok, I'll buy it right now!"
    I created this post last night because defending the store or the TCL sales rep who did not do a followup is absurd. I got more annoyed each time I went to the store. I should swing buy again because I haven't been there since the last pic. I think Best Buy may still be selling, at least, online.
    01-09-20 01:00 PM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    01-09-20 01:01 PM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I disagree. There is absolutely no way to prove that. They didn't sell well? Of course they didn't. How do you know which stores had them out and how many did just what this store did. Who would buy it unseen. Would you buy a vehicle you didn't get to see or test drive?
    There is a guy in a chat I am in (living in another state) who said he sold 34 of them in a week recently. Earlier he had reported robust sales of them.
    There was a display for it for at least 6 or 7 weeks, and it was not put out on the display. So are the nay sayers are going to run around and say they didn't sell well??
    Someone like me comes in and they can't even show it to me. He said I had to commit to buying it before he would open it. In the mean time other cell phones were on display all around (slabs, all) and people could try them out. I was weighing up whether to buy it or a KEY2. I had my KEYone with me.
    But that’s point. The PKB isn’t a desired form regardless. No amount of exposure is going to significantly change that. Even with decent carrier availability, KEYone is still just sitting on AT&T shelves.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    01-09-20 01:01 PM
  4. Sigewif's Avatar
    You disregarded my 2nd paragraph. Have You ever been in marketing?
    You sound like the guy in T-Mobile when I came in for SIM card help setting up my PRIV. He knew I had a PRIV in my hand. They had one on display, back then, but not turned on like all the other phones on display. The guy had the same excuse that people werent interested in them. (He was gone from T-Mobile next time I went in. The new person was very helpful).
    Later I went in, and they had definitely sold some.
    01-09-20 01:08 PM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You disregarded my 2nd paragraph. Have You ever been in marketing?
    I have one degree in marketing and I’m directly involved with sales my entire life. Rule #1 in Marketing is a product that people want. That’s Sales 101 even with people that have no degree.

    How many actual people do you think really want to buy a PKB handset? The reason not on display was that store had one in box. If opened, nothing to sell to one person who is going to buy.

    The stores around me, 7 BestBuy locations, all had them on display properly. There were no lines and salespeople told me that only sold occasionally like almost never.

    I’d stop and look based on your initial display reports way back when. Point is that it wouldn’t really matter. The displays in most places were fine and it didn’t matter. You’re right, if your area was setup properly, an extra bakers dozen would have been sold. If every area that didn’t have proper display was setup, an extra 2K handsets would have been sold globally.

    BlackBerry Mobile looked to sell 30-40x what the Key2 sold. BBMo looked to sell 3-4x what the KEYone sold. It didn’t want to build a phone business on PKB hardware. The Motion should have sold 100x actual sales and if TCL would have known that, it wouldn’t have ever licensed brand if sales were the goal.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    01-09-20 01:23 PM
  6. Sigewif's Avatar
    I have one degree in marketing and I’m directly involved with sales my entire life. Rule #1 in Marketing is a product that people want. That’s Sales 101 even with people that have no degree.

    How many actual people do you think really want to buy a PKB handset? The reason not on display was that store had one in box. If opened, nothing to sell to one person who is going to buy.

    The stores around me, 7 BestBuy locations, all had them on display properly. There were no lines and salespeople told me that only sold occasionally like almost never.

    I’d stop and look based on your initial display reports way back when. Point is that it wouldn’t really matter. The displays in most places were fine and it didn’t matter. You’re right, if your area was setup properly, an extra bakers dozen would have been sold. If every area that didn’t have proper display was setup, an extra 2K handsets would have been sold globally.

    BlackBerry Mobile looked to sell 30-40x what the Key2 sold. BBMo looked to sell 3-4x what the KEYone sold. It didn’t want to build a phone business on PKB hardware. The Motion should have sold 100x actual sales and if TCL would have known that, it wouldn’t have ever licensed brand if sales were the goal.
    You still didn't read or acknowledge the report of the guy who has sold numerous devices.
    Actually there were 2 units in the store the first time I went in. The sales person was seemingly not wanting to try to sell the product to me. It was very strange behavior but not uncommon. When I went online at a later time they had no backstock. Some sold in spite if this. But they failed to restock in a timely fashion.
    But I place blame on TCL sales reps. Remember the million $$ discussion that precipitated my response? My point is it does not cost a million to do grass roots sales. They should have done follow up. 8 or 9 phone calls to the stores in the region and provided demo phones if needed.

    I am also convinced that the negativity in this forum has turned away more potential buyers than you or I will ever know.
    01-09-20 02:08 PM
  7. Emaderton3's Avatar
    You still didn't read or acknowledge the report of the guy who has sold numerous devices.
    Actually there were 2 units in the store the first time I went in. The sales person was seemingly not wanting to try to sell the product to me. It was very strange behavior but not uncommon. When I went online at a later time they had no backstock. Some sold in spite if this. But they failed to restock in a timely fashion.
    But I place blame on TCL sales reps. Remember the million $$ discussion that precipitated my response? My point is it does not cost a million to do grass roots sales. They should have done follow up. 8 or 9 phone calls to the stores in the region and provided demo phones if needed.

    I am also convinced that the negativity in this forum has turned away more potential buyers than you or I will ever know.
    A n of 1 does not make a compelling study.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    01-09-20 02:14 PM
  8. John Albert's Avatar
    Media at CES reported:

    "TCL will still sell devices under the BlackBerry brand it licenses from that company. (Blackberry no longer makes hardware of its own.) TCL will also keep selling lower-end Alcatel devices through carriers.

    The high-end phones will definitely be sold direct to consumers, but it's not clear if they will also be available through carriers — which remains a key way many Americans buy their phones."

    TCL should be in politics. They can say something and nothing at the same time.
    Hopefully, they will release another BlackBerry phone before the end of that licensing contract.
    01-09-20 02:35 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I disagree. There is absolutely no way to prove that. They didn't sell well? Of course they didn't. How do you know which stores had them out and how many did just what this store did. Who would buy it unseen. Would you buy a vehicle you didn't get to see or test drive?
    There is a guy in a chat I am in (living in another state) who said he sold 34 of them in a week recently. Earlier he had reported robust sales of them.
    There was a display for it for at least 6 or 7 weeks, and it was not put out on the display. So are the nay sayers are going to run around and say they didn't sell well??
    Someone like me comes in and they can't even show it to me. He said I had to commit to buying it before he would open it. In the mean time other cell phones were on display all around (slabs, all) and people could try them out. I was weighing up whether to buy it or a KEY2. I had my KEYone with me.
    You can disagree all you want. In my area, every best buy store displayed them properly for months but reported they never sold more than one or two a month.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    01-09-20 03:12 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Working BlackBerry phones are carried in Telus and Bell stores in my area .
    No uptick in sales as far as I can tell.

    [IMG=640x840]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200109/745c599d3bbea2dc9403b92049b2eea9.jpg[/url]
    Unpossible! Surely if people could see and touch them, they'd buy them! They just need to know they exist!


    /sarcasm
    chain13 likes this.
    01-09-20 03:52 PM
  11. the_boon's Avatar
    Unpossible! Surely if people could see and touch them, they'd buy them! They just need to know they exist!


    /sarcasm
    I actually do believe that to some extent.

    It wouldn't have tripled the overall sales, but they would have been better if every Best Buy in the country had properly displayed KEY2's and LE's since launch
    01-09-20 04:15 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I actually do believe that to some extent.

    It wouldn't have tripled the overall sales, but they would have been better if every Best Buy in the country had properly displayed KEY2's and LE's since launch
    Sure, but even if every Best Buy that didn't display them had done so, we're talking a few thousand extra devices at most. It really doesn't move the needle.

    Best Buy just wants to sell their inventory. If they thought they could have sold more devices, they would have displayed them properly for sure. You don't see this issue with successful products. The product is the dog; the marketing and merchandising is the tail.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    01-09-20 04:21 PM
  13. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Unpossible! Surely if people could see and touch them, they'd buy them! They just need to know they exist!


    /sarcasm
    On more than a couple of occasions when I picked up the demo , I had to switch it on and or it was waiting for an OS update.
    01-09-20 04:40 PM
  14. Sigewif's Avatar
    The point I made is I am looking back to the comments of those who seemed to think that the only marketing is some million dollar billboard in time square or a Superbowl TV ad.
    As I said before, the TCL reps should have done better grass roots follow up. It isn't going to cost a million $$ to make phone calls or even call on the store and train some of the sales people.
    My experience with our products, which are displayed in retail stores in a highly competitive market: If you don't actively maintain your presence you lose out. Enthusiasm is contagious (at is negativity) We also periodically do in person demos.
    01-09-20 04:43 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    The point I made is I am looking back to the comments of those who seemed to think that the only marketing is some million dollar billboard in time square or a Superbowl TV ad.
    As I said before, the TCL reps should have done better grass roots follow up. It isn't going to cost a million $$ to make phone calls or even call on the store and train some of the sales people.
    My experience with our products, which are displayed in retail stores in a highly competitive market: If you don't actively maintain your presence you lose out. Enthusiasm is contagious (at is negativity) We also periodically do in person demos.
    Rep: are you displaying the phone?

    BestBuy: sure.

    Rep: need any help?

    BestBuy: nah.
    app_Developer likes this.
    01-09-20 04:58 PM
  16. RegN's Avatar
    Shoulda coulda woulda this argument has been going on forever. Didnt advertise bb10 correctly or the world would be still be using them. Or rather didnt build it 3 yrs sooner so those leaving bb07 had a proper choice. Our ship has sailed and no one bothered to put the plug in and its gone down. Am I sad yes. I really like the pkb.

    So I am going with google is waiting for patends to end and then I will buy a pixel with pkb. Pretty sure it will be out before the key3

    Blackberry KEY² Silver Edition
    Reg
    01-09-20 04:59 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    The point I made is I am looking back to the comments of those who seemed to think that the only marketing is some million dollar billboard in time square or a Superbowl TV ad.
    As I said before, the TCL reps should have done better grass roots follow up. It isn't going to cost a million $$ to make phone calls or even call on the store and train some of the sales people.
    My experience with our products, which are displayed in retail stores in a highly competitive market: If you don't actively maintain your presence you lose out. Enthusiasm is contagious (at is negativity) We also periodically do in person demos.
    Consider how many BestBuys there are. Will phone calls have made a difference, really?

    The best, most prominent Key2 display I’ve seen was at the entrance to the phone section at a Bic in Kyoto. It had been there for weeks. You had to practically turn sideways to get past it to the Samsung section. I was the first person to even ask about it according to the manager working that section on a busy Saturday afternoon.

    Your 34 phones a week was vague. How recently? Was that an unusual week? Did he sell 60 the week after? Or 8?

    If a fan could sell 500 phones by being a huge fan, how many would it take to sell a million, net returns?
    01-09-20 06:43 PM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I talked with the sales reps at Bell. Basically the sales were being made to current and former BB10 PKB owners. This is a market that knows the product.

    The BB market died first in the USA amongst all of their very limited markets. Consequently BB10 uptake was limited and BB android uptake much smaller yet.

    The market is too small for generic Key type device. They needed to ignite the interest for a nostalgia device. The market for a BB Android VKB is non existent.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 01-09-20 at 08:36 PM.
    01-09-20 07:57 PM
  19. Sigewif's Avatar
    Rep: are you displaying the phone?

    BestBuy: sure.

    Rep: need any help?

    BestBuy: nah.
    For those who did not see what I wrote above, there are only about 8 stores in the Pacific Northwest that carried them. Traceable on their website. So it is no big deal to expenses go there personally, or pay someone to go over the course of 2 or 3 week. We have way more stores than that. We visit them personally. Maybe when TCL starts selling their own phones they will finally "get it."
    01-09-20 08:48 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    For those who did not see what I wrote above, there are only about 8 stores in the Pacific Northwest that carried them. Traceable on their website. So it is no big deal to expenses go there personally, or pay someone to go over the course of 2 or 3 week. We have way more stores than that. We visit them personally. Maybe when TCL starts selling their own phones they will finally "get it."
    There are thousands of carrier and retail stores around the world.
    01-09-20 08:51 PM
  21. Sigewif's Avatar
    There are thousands of carrier and retail stores around the world.
    So?

    There were 8 - 9 Best Buy stores in the PNW that were carrying the KEY2 LE. These are the only retail locations in the PNW US that had them during that time period.

    They shouldn't be left like orphans.
    01-09-20 09:52 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    So?

    There were 8 - 9 Best Buy stores in the PNW that were carrying the KEY2 LE. These are the only retail locations in the PNW US that had them during that time period.

    They shouldn't be left like orphans.
    So get those 8-9 and leave the thousands of others?
    01-09-20 09:53 PM
  23. Sigewif's Avatar
    So get those 8-9 and leave the thousands of others?
    Now you are making zero sense. They are the only stores that have (had) them. Accounts need maintenance. If they can't even look after the ones they have, how are they going to look after new accounts.
    Have a nice evening.
    01-09-20 10:09 PM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    So?

    There were 8 - 9 Best Buy stores in the PNW that were carrying the KEY2 LE. These are the only retail locations in the PNW US that had them during that time period.
    Have you ever considered why Best Buy didn't buy enough to put them in every store? Or why they didn't buy enough to put out a display device in the few stores that they stocked? Like all major retailers, they have a ton of sales data, and they know what sells and where it sells best, and they clearly didn't have a lot of faith that the BBMo Key phones would sell. Essentially, they stocked just enough that if someone called or looked on the website, they could drive to a store within 50 miles and buy it, but it wasn't going to move enough units for Best Buy to care about it. If a store is only moving 20-30 devices (or less!) per year, that's not a product that Best Buy really even wants, and I'm sure they only took them as a favor and to focus on online sales.

    Selling products at retail has many costs associated with it for the retailer, so retailers want to stock products that sell through quickly and in volume, and that are rarely returned. This doesn't apply to just BB or even just to smartphones, but ANY product - but we all know that the Key phones are the opposite of that. How many people here have talked about returning a Key phone because it had some flaw or because they couldn't get used to it? That rarely happens with other brands, especially in relationship to the number of units sold.

    PKB phones have been in a death spiral for 8 or 9 years now, selling fewer and fewer every year, and honestly the reason why doesn't even matter at this point - what matters is that the sales volume is so low that it just can't be done profitably anymore, and that's all she wrote.
    phuoc likes this.
    01-10-20 12:01 AM
  25. Sigewif's Avatar
    Have you ever considered why Best Buy didn't buy enough to put them in every store? Or why they didn't buy enough to put out a display device in the few stores that they stocked? Like all major retailers, they have a ton of sales data, and they know what sells and where it sells best, and they clearly didn't have a lot of faith that the BBMo Key phones would sell. Essentially, they stocked just enough that if someone called or looked on the website, they could drive to a store within 50 miles and buy it, but it wasn't going to move enough units for Best Buy to care about it. If a store is only moving 20-30 devices (or less!) per year, that's not a product that Best Buy really even wants, and I'm sure they only took them as a favor and to focus on online sales.

    Selling products at retail has many costs associated with it for the retailer, so retailers want to stock products that sell through quickly and in volume, and that are rarely returned. This doesn't apply to just BB or even just to smartphones, but ANY product - but we all know that the Key phones are the opposite of that. How many people here have talked about returning a Key phone because it had some flaw or because they couldn't get used to it? That rarely happens with other brands, especially in relationship to the number of units sold.

    PKB phones have been in a death spiral for 8 or 9 years now, selling fewer and fewer every year, and honestly the reason why doesn't even matter at this point - what matters is that the sales volume is so low that it just can't be done profitably anymore, and that's all she wrote.
    The biggest expense for the store is the dedicated display slot. There was a dedicated a spot to displaying it, all set up and no one (tcl sales rep etc) put anything there--for almost 2 months. Not even a photo. Not even a photo. In that valuable display slot.
    Tcl did not do their homework. Tcl could have, at the very least. Provided a photo. But a demo should have been provided. I think the guy said that one was supposed to come from the distributor.

    Our business has been selling retail in a very competitive market for years. A dedicated spot (which they were given), is gold. They squandered it.
    Last edited by Sigewif; 01-10-20 at 12:57 AM.
    01-10-20 12:20 AM
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