1. hmp3's Avatar
    I plan to use my classic until it stops working. If I setup my brand new Key2 now, then keep it off to start using officially until 2021 (after os updates have stopped), I'm guessing that the os/apps/email will still function (but just not update) until the handset dies (2yrs: 2023).
    I like this phone. If I buy another key2 now, set it up now but then start using in 2023, the os/apps/email will no longer update, but will still function until handset dies (2yrs:2025), right?
    06-16-20 09:16 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Android OS has an expiration date that begins the date the OEM releases officially. There’s no benefit or advantage to keeping unused in box.
    johnb_xp likes this.
    06-16-20 11:05 PM
  3. Rico4you's Avatar
    I plan to use my classic until it stops working. If I setup my brand new Key2 now, then keep it off to start using officially until 2021 (after os updates have stopped), I'm guessing that the os/apps/email will still function (but just not update) until the handset dies (2yrs: 2023).
    I like this phone. If I buy another key2 now, set it up now but then start using in 2023, the os/apps/email will no longer update, but will still function until handset dies (2yrs:2025), right?
    First of all enjoy your devices. I use my KEY2 Red Edition but also use as daily driver a PRIV that works perfectly ( it was released 5 years ago!) Yes for me a PKB is essential!

    BTW you can check this video on a KEY2 in 2020

    06-17-20 02:50 AM
  4. hmp3's Avatar
    Android OS has an expiration date that begins the date the OEM releases officially. There’s no benefit or advantage to keeping unused in box.
    The benefit is that I get to use my beloved Q20 longer and then move onto key2 when I'm ready. I just want to know whether os expiration means no more updates or no more functionality (does software stop working the way it was before expiration or become unstable?). Because if like the software works, but doesn't break, then I can buy 2 key2 handsets and have a phone I like until they break down. So I'd buy now but start using in 2021, and hope each handset lasts 2 yrs+ so I can enjoy a reliable pkb until 2025.
    So is os expiration a real problem for the way I want to use it?
    06-17-20 06:15 AM
  5. hmp3's Avatar
    First of all enjoy your devices. I use my KEY2 Red Edition but also use as daily driver a PRIV that works perfectly ( it was released 5 years ago!) Yes for me a PKB is essential!

    BTW you can check this video on a KEY2 in 2020

    Thanks! On Priv, everything & apps still working as they were day1?
    Do you foresee any drawbacks (other than no updates) to using key2 for 5 yrs past expiration?
    06-17-20 06:18 AM
  6. Rico4you's Avatar
    Thanks! On Priv, everything & apps still working as they were day1?
    Do you foresee any drawbacks (other than no updates) to using key2 for 5 yrs past expiration?
    On PRIV did clear HUB just recently and reinstalled. So cleared Data. Do regularly clear cache and with task manager app clear background process. For some apps when available use Lite version like Facebook Lite / Messenger Lite. But the rest all the same and no issues. Using my PRIV.

    My KEY2 Red Edition working in 2025? Hmmm If Android support is there why not.
    06-17-20 06:39 AM
  7. steveCheshire's Avatar
    very helpful video
    Rico4you likes this.
    06-17-20 07:05 AM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The benefit is that I get to use my beloved Q20 longer and then move onto key2 when I'm ready. I just want to know whether os expiration means no more updates or no more functionality (does software stop working the way it was before expiration or become unstable?). Because if like the software works, but doesn't break, then I can buy 2 key2 handsets and have a phone I like until they break down. So I'd buy now but start using in 2021, and hope each handset lasts 2 yrs+ so I can enjoy a reliable pkb until 2025.
    So is os expiration a real problem for the way I want to use it?
    Yes and no. Since you’re happy with BB10 now, the Classic makes calls, texts and emails just fine on 7.5 year old hardware just fine and can probably go another 2.5 years as long as nothing changes from today. Your enemy there is newest Classic is five years old, batteries and PKBs wear out and harder to find over time. Since nobody ever really built much of an ecosystem, the OS will be okay until email protocols, mobile phone technology and such are still compatible and relevant.

    Android/iOS, because of their active ecosystem development, will be somewhere between painful to impossible to use in five years let alone past that mark.

    Android/iOS, especially Android isn’t really designed to be used 4-5 years after introduction at the ecosystem level. The same problems with older ART versions still happens with apps due to same BB10 reasons. Security requirements and upgraded features are more pronounced.

    I went the iOS route simply because at 2-3 year mark, I have better expectations compared with Android hardware. But, I paid around $80 USD for a new V30 that upgraded from Nougat to Oreo to Pie as soon as I got it. So for me, it will survive as daily backup for year maybe.

    My AT&T KEYone was already getting retired for 3/32 performance issues. The Motion is 4/32 and BE KEYone is 4/64 and both are great but stuck on 2017 Oreo which is great for CrackBerry and general tasks not requiring my personal or client data as rule of thumb.

    The best comparison for usability of Android in years 7-8, would be to find a mid spec device from 2013 that rolled out with Android 4.4 KitKat and see how it performed in 2019-2020 or so.

    Here’s a good reference point, the Moto G

    in this historical Android Central article

    https://www.androidcentral.com/moto-g-specs
    06-17-20 07:11 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The benefit is that I get to use my beloved Q20 longer and then move onto key2 when I'm ready. I just want to know whether os expiration means no more updates or no more functionality (does software stop working the way it was before expiration or become unstable?). Because if like the software works, but doesn't break, then I can buy 2 key2 handsets and have a phone I like until they break down. So I'd buy now but start using in 2021, and hope each handset lasts 2 yrs+ so I can enjoy a reliable pkb until 2025.
    So is os expiration a real problem for the way I want to use it?
    Android 8 phones will work for years, you really won't have foreseeable problems till developers stop supporting their apps on Android 8. For most that might be several years from now - I suspect only a few might stop supporting their apps on Android 8 before 2025 (but with security things can change).

    But Android like any OS is a target for hackers, it very important for users to be running a fully patched OS. Every month that goes by without patches is another list of vulnerabilities that your phone will have. I doubt a work account would allow you to connect at that point. But if just personal you'll be able to use it, if you choose to do so. Kinda like using Windows XP today on a machine that always connected to the internet and hold all your personal info... some will risk it.

    Of course Google could switch to Fuchsia next year or two, and that would quickly change things.... Or someone else might offer up a PKB handset that's even better than the KEY2.... Or the inoculation for COVID might mutate the virus and turn us all into zombie vampires (that don't use smartphones).
    mikael11 likes this.
    06-17-20 07:24 AM
  10. hmp3's Avatar
    To clarify, I want to use this as my personal phone: trackpad (app), reachability, Hub, amazon, docs, alarms, weather, browse safe sites, Google Maps, cloud backup&restore, some youtube, whatsapp, calendar, onenote, email/sms/calls, music. Shazam,
    Maybe facebook, signal/secure chat.
    Am I likely to face these apps breaking 4 after OS is unsupported?
    06-17-20 10:45 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    To clarify, I want to use this as my personal phone: trackpad (app), reachability, Hub, amazon, docs, alarms, weather, browse safe sites, Google Maps, some youtube, whatsapp, calendar, onenote, email/sms/calls, music. Shazam,
    Maybe facebook, signal/secure chat.
    Am I likely to face these apps breaking 4 after OS is unsupported?
    To get some clarification, google search each app for it’s minimum requirements. See what year each ART is from and that will give you and idea how long most current app version is supported by developers.

    Just like BB10, nobody really knows how long supported after EOL or the actual usability. Of course BB10 relies on ART 4.3 which is like Google Jellybean running on straight Android hardware for instance. How usable, is up to individual.
    06-17-20 10:52 AM
  12. hmp3's Avatar
    To get some clarification, google search each app for it’s minimum requirements. See what year each ART is from and that will give you and idea how long most current app version is supported by developers.

    Just like BB10, nobody really knows how long supported after EOL or the actual usability. Of course BB10 relies on ART 4.3 which is like Google Jellybean running on straight Android hardware for instance. How usable, is up to individual.
    What is ART? i can't find it on for example https://www.shazam.com/gb/terms
    06-17-20 10:56 AM
  13. Rico4you's Avatar
    What is ART? i can't find it on for example https://www.shazam.com/gb/terms
    Android Run Time
    06-17-20 11:05 AM
  14. hmp3's Avatar
    Android Run Time
    I can't find that anywhere.
    06-17-20 11:38 AM
  15. Ben xfg's Avatar
    I can't find that anywhere.
    Now you did...?
    06-17-20 11:48 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    What is ART? i can't find it on for example https://www.shazam.com/gb/terms
    Android Run Time which on the Key2 is stuck at Oreo Android 8.1, won’t get Pie Android 9 and was introduced by Google in 2017 calendar year. BBAndroid trails Android by approval one year so KEYone was released with the Nougat Android 7.1 in 2017 calendar year and upgraded to Oreo 8.1 around Key2 release.

    Android 10 was introduced 2019 calendar year and what’s found on flagships now. Soon Android 11 will be officially introduced for 2020 calendar year.

    The ART 4.3 that allows BB10 hardware to run apps from Android is from 2012-2013 period so that’s why so many apps no longer run on BB10 hardware and haven’t for years.

    Get your Key2 but use it while it’s truly enjoyable. You’d be really upset if you opened a Key2 in 2021 or so and it was really sluggish.

    If you don’t need the apps, I don’t really see paying extra money on the overpriced hardware now. You could probably stick with Classics by the dozen with similar results.
    johnb_xp likes this.
    06-17-20 11:52 AM
  17. hmp3's Avatar
    Now you did...?
    No I still haven't
    06-17-20 11:58 AM
  18. Rico4you's Avatar
    I can't find that anywhere.
    Go to for example
    Androidapksfree.com search for Shazam and you can see the versions avaiable and which min Android you need to install and use.

    For example in this case latest version is for Android 6 (ART 6) which is on PRIV. So Shazam will work on my 5yr old PRIV!!

    With my KEY2 with Android 8.1 re Oreo I feel totally confident next 2 years will be fine. The market share of ART worldwide is interesting for example in India 8.1 Oreo is the second most installed OS!
    So yes to each his own.

    See in

    gs.statscounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide

    You can select regions and get some interesting facts.
    hmp3 likes this.
    06-17-20 12:23 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Go to for example
    Androidapksfree.com search for Shazam and you can see the versions avaiable and which min Android you need to install and use.

    For example in this case latest version is for Android 6 (ART 6) which is on PRIV. So Shazam will work on my 5yr old PRIV!!

    With my KEY2 with Android 8.1 re Oreo I feel totally confident next 2 years will be fine. The market share of ART worldwide is interesting for example in India 8.1 Oreo is the second most installed OS!
    So yes to each his own.

    See in

    gs.statscounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide

    You can select regions and get some interesting facts.
    I agree with 5 year mark. OP wanting to hit 7-8year 2025 mark. That’s different story.
    Rico4you likes this.
    06-17-20 12:38 PM
  20. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    I plan to use my classic until it stops working. If I setup my brand new Key2 now, then keep it off to start using officially until 2021 (after os updates have stopped), I'm guessing that the os/apps/email will still function (but just not update) until the handset dies (2yrs: 2023).
    I like this phone. If I buy another key2 now, set it up now but then start using in 2023, the os/apps/email will no longer update, but will still function until handset dies (2yrs:2025), right?
    If you setup and use your new K2 now I'll bet that you will use the Classic a lot less and will retire it sooner than you think.

    To answer your question - no. I don't see any logic in buying a second K2 at full price just to keep it on a shelf for three years. If someone offered you a Priv for $500 today would you think that is a good deal?
    06-17-20 12:52 PM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    To clarify, I want to use this as my personal phone: trackpad (app), reachability, Hub, amazon, docs, alarms, weather, browse safe sites, Google Maps, cloud backup&restore, some youtube, whatsapp, calendar, onenote, email/sms/calls, music. Shazam,
    Maybe facebook, signal/secure chat.
    Am I likely to face these apps breaking 4 after OS is unsupported?
    My guess is no most apps won't break.... and that most of those will support Android 8 for another five years.

    That said, Android is very different today than it was five years ago. Looking at past support windows, might not work going forward. A device five years ago got one upgrade at best and patches were unheard of - which is why BlackBerry made a big deal about it. The Android's userbase tended to be very fractured with the vast majority on very old versions.

    Every year Google makes improvement to how devices get update, and the market has demanded OEMs to provide longer support cycles. Android 8 never reached more than a 20% marketshare.... Android 9 peaked at almost 40%, and Android 10 already at 20% and still climbing.

    My guess is in the coming years the gap for Android users on the "current" OS will continue to close... and the need to allow support for four or five year old versions of Android will decline even more.

    It's your choice... but buying two year old middle grade hardware now in the hopes it will be functional in five years.... ?
    06-17-20 01:14 PM
  22. hmp3's Avatar
    Go to for example
    Androidapksfree.com search for Shazam and you can see the versions avaiable and which min Android you need to install and use.

    For example in this case latest version is for Android 6 (ART 6) which is on PRIV. So Shazam will work on my 5yr old PRIV!!

    With my KEY2 with Android 8.1 re Oreo I feel totally confident next 2 years will be fine. The market share of ART worldwide is interesting for example in India 8.1 Oreo is the second most installed OS!
    So yes to each his own.

    See in

    gs.statscounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide

    You can select regions and get some interesting facts.
    Thank you for those resources!
    Rico4you likes this.
    06-17-20 02:02 PM
  23. hmp3's Avatar
    I'm still running a 2015 version of maps which supports android 4.3 on Classic. But the latest maps is ART5. Does this suggest I've got maybe 2 yrs left before my older version on Classic stops working?
    06-17-20 02:17 PM
  24. Rico4you's Avatar
    I'm still running a 2015 version of maps which supports android 4.3 on Classic. But the latest maps is ART5. Does this suggest I've got maybe 2 yrs left before my older version on Classic stops working?
    Sometimes older versions can work but maybe missing features of new versions. Or they can stop working all together. With Android 4.3 and still working just shows how apps are still supporting this version. Till when who knows.
    Like yourself I run APK's on my Z10 and Passport SE and pushing along! While my PRIV on Android 6.0 also alive n kicking!
    Now with my KEYone and KEY2 both on Android 8.1 I have no worries for a long time.
    KEY2 for me is the best PKB device bar none on the market right now and for me PKB is a priority.
    06-18-20 03:55 AM
  25. hmp3's Avatar
    When it comes down to it, I can live without all web apps except factory blackberry apps, a browser, Google Maps and all native google apps & account. Since these are integral and native to the OS, are these more likely to work in 2025?
    06-18-20 07:07 PM
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