1. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Anyone know if SD card encryption is coming for the Key2? I recall a thread about this a while back and only up to a certain size/speed card supports it at the moment, for whatever reason.
    09-18-18 07:56 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Anyone know if SD card encryption is coming for the Key2? I recall a thread about this a while back and only up to a certain size/speed card supports it at the moment, for whatever reason.
    It's always encrypted when used as adoptable storage - but not as portable storage. I'm not aware of any initiative to encrypt portable storage.
    09-18-18 09:00 PM
  3. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    It's always encrypted when used as adoptable storage - but not as portable storage. I'm not aware of any initiative to encrypt portable storage.
    There is no option to make the SD card adoptable on the Key2. That's the issue. At least not unless you are using a very small and slow card (don't recall the specifics). So I was wondering if they were intending to bring it back, or if we are going to be left with portable as the only option.

    Encrypting the SD card / adoptable storage is a feature I've used on all my BlackBerry devices...
    09-18-18 09:26 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    There is no option to make the SD card adoptable on the Key2. That's the issue. At least not unless you are using a very small and slow card (don't recall the specifics). So I was wondering if they were intending to bring it back, or if we are going to be left with portable as the only option.

    Encrypting the SD card / adoptable storage is a feature I've used on all my BlackBerry devices...
    With storage 64GB and higher? Why bother?

    It's a dangerous game anyway in my opinion. Failure rate is too high, even on a high quality card.

    But, I've never heard about such a restriction on the KEY².
    09-18-18 10:04 PM
  5. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    With storage 64GB and higher? Why bother?

    It's a dangerous game anyway in my opinion. Failure rate is too high, even on a high quality card.

    But, I've never heard about such a restriction on the KEY².
    I wasn't aware it was a problem. Other oems don't seem to have an issue doing it, and as I said BlackBerry has always had it as a feature, so I was hoping it was just a bug.

    Anyway, it would be nice if they could at least let us know one way or the other. I can't say I really see any point of partially crippling it (whether intentional or not) and just leaving it that way? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    09-18-18 10:19 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    I wasn't aware it was a problem. Other oems don't seem to have an issue doing it, and as I said BlackBerry has always had it as a feature, so I was hoping it was just a bug.

    Anyway, it would be nice if they could at least let us know one way or the other. I can't say I really see any point of partially crippling it (whether intentional or not) and just leaving it that way? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    I meant using a card as adoptable.
    09-18-18 10:52 PM
  7. Renwick's Avatar
    I really don't understand why BlackBerry left out SD card encryption feature (for portable cards) from their Android build. It's a function there from Android 5.0, not to mention it was present in BB10.
    09-19-18 07:38 AM
  8. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I really don't understand why BlackBerry left out SD card encryption feature (for portable cards) from their Android build. It's a function there from Android 5.0, not to mention it was present in BB10.
    I know the PRIV had it for sure. I never owned a DTEK and I didn't have either of my KeyONEs long enough to notice if they had it or not. But I do find it somewhat puzzling it's been removed (or at least, severely limited) on the Key2 for no apparent reason.
    09-19-18 07:56 AM
  9. Renwick's Avatar
    I know the PRIV had it for sure. I never owned a DTEK and I didn't have either of my KeyONEs long enough to notice if they had it or not. But I do find it somewhat puzzling it's been removed (or at least, severely limited) on the Key2 for no apparent reason.
    You're talking about adobtable storage. It's encrypted by design, but since v5.0 Android has the option to encrypt portable SD storage as well. This was never implemented by BB's Android.
    09-19-18 08:04 AM
  10. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    You're talking about adobtable storage. It's encrypted by design, but since v5.0 Android has the option to encrypt portable SD storage as well. This was never implemented by BB's Android.
    What did the PRIV have then? On the PRIV there was an option to "format SD card as internal" where certain files and folders were moved over the card. Once you did that, the card only worked on your device and was encrypted. That's what I called 'encrypted' and understand conite meant by 'adoptable' storage.

    At any rate this is just semantics. There is no option other than to format as normal, unencrypted storage on the Key2 that can be removed and read on any device. That is the issue I am attempting to communicate.
    V-Tom likes this.
    09-19-18 08:58 AM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    With storage 64GB and higher? Why bother?

    It's a dangerous game anyway in my opinion. Failure rate is too high, even on a high quality card.

    But, I've never heard about such a restriction on the KEY².
    I've never had a phone's internal storage go bad. But I have had several SD Card fail to varying degrees. One just died, others tended to have sectors fail first which allows for most data to be saved - but at that point you can't trust them. I did have my SD Card encrypted once on my Z10, learned the hard way what happens if your OS fails on you (boot error).

    Personally I'd buy a phone with as much internal storage and then use the Cloud for anything else. I don't bother with SD Cards much anymore.

    Encrypted Portable Drives... just don't work. Maybe if the "key" were based on a password and you could move the drive from one device to another. But that's not how it works. Yes I understand that some want it, but in the end many OEMs have found it's a problem for users that is best fixed by not offering it as an option. Adoptable Storage or SD Encryption..... or SD Cards period.
    ck2nb likes this.
    09-19-18 09:00 AM
  12. Renwick's Avatar
    What did the PRIV have then? On the PRIV there was an option to "format SD card as internal" where certain files and folders were moved over the card. Once you did that, the card only worked on your device and was encrypted. That's what I called 'encrypted' and understand conite meant by 'adoptable' storage.

    At any rate this is just semantics. There is no option other than to format as normal, unencrypted storage on the Key2 that can be removed and read on any device. That is the issue I am attempting to communicate.
    Yes, I see.
    There are two SD-formatting options supported by Android OS: adoptable and portable. The main difference is the logical partition mapping - with the adoptable option, the storage capacity of the SD card automatically extends the internal capacity of the phone itself.
    With portable option however, the phone treats SD storage completely independent both phisically and logically from the internal storage.

    With adoptable storage, the data on the SD card is automatically encrypted by design, as it's logically a part of the phones encrypted storage.

    But android also supports encryption of the portable SD storage starting from Lollipop - and this is completely missing from BB's Android implementation.
    09-19-18 09:09 AM
  13. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Yes, I see.
    There are two SD-formatting options supported by Android OS: adoptable and portable. The main difference is the logical partition mapping - with the adoptable option, the storage capacity of the SD card automatically extends the internal capacity of the phone itself.
    With portable option however, the phone treats SD storage completely independent both phisically and logically from the internal storage.

    With adoptable storage, the data on the SD card is automatically encrypted by design, as it's logically a part of the phones encrypted storage.

    But android also supports encryption of the portable SD storage starting from Lollipop - and this is completely missing from BB's Android implementation.
    I understand the difference, thank you. So perhaps someone can address whether or not adoptable storage is going to be fixed for all SD cards (at least up to the maximum size - I assume they have limited it to 256gb for a reason) or not? As it stands now, its almost as if they kept it running at a skeletal level just so they don't have to admit it's essentially been disabled.

    As for encrypting the card only, I don't have any issue with that. I understand no BlackBerry Android ever had it. Maybe it's time to consider bringing it on as a feature if the adoptable option is unworkable or is beyond BlackBerry's expertise.
    09-19-18 09:41 AM
  14. joeldf's Avatar
    It is interesting.

    True, BB10 always let you encrypt the SD card. It's just up to your own needs as to whether it's a good idea or not.

    Samsung has an encryption option for the SD card under android, but they've disabled the ability to set the SD card as adoptable storage.
    09-19-18 10:10 AM
  15. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I've never had a phone's internal storage go bad. But I have had several SD Card fail to varying degrees. One just died, others tended to have sectors fail first which allows for most data to be saved - but at that point you can't trust them. I did have my SD Card encrypted once on my Z10, learned the hard way what happens if your OS fails on you (boot error).

    Personally I'd buy a phone with as much internal storage and then use the Cloud for anything else. I don't bother with SD Cards much anymore.

    Encrypted Portable Drives... just don't work. Maybe if the "key" were based on a password and you could move the drive from one device to another. But that's not how it works. Yes I understand that some want it, but in the end many OEMs have found it's a problem for users that is best fixed by not offering it as an option. Adoptable Storage or SD Encryption..... or SD Cards period.
    The point though, is that BlackBerry devices have an SD card slot and it is touted (rightfully so, IMO) as a feature. BlackBerry has a long history of offering an encryption option for the SD card. So the issue is not one of questioning the usefulness of SD card itself- if that's the case, just don't offer it. And certainly don't offer it and strip out security features BlackBerry devices have always had (at least as far back as I remember) for no apparent reason.

    So I certainly do believe that either an explanation is warranted, or they should fix the issue.
    09-19-18 01:19 PM
  16. Crusader03's Avatar
    ^^^This^^^
    09-19-18 01:44 PM
  17. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Did a little more digging and found this:

    https://source.android.com/security/...ion/file-based

    Amazing no one here was either aware of this or just didn't bother to respond. Devices running Android 7 (and later) have FBE (file based encryption) and SD cards must be used as traditional storage only. So Adoptable is no longer an option. On ANY Android device.

    As for encrypting the card separately, that is also possible but BlackBerry has chosen not to implement that option either, for whatever reason.

    Just for fun, I even ran ADB on my Key2 as Bla1ze suggested as an alternative approach in a thread from a few months ago and followed the steps to 'force' enable it and got this "Error: java.lang.IllegalStateException: Adoptable storage not available on device with native FBE"

    FBE meaning 'file based encryption'. [BlackBerry says it uses FIPS 140-2 & NIAP Data-at-rest file system encryption. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ]

    Anyway, always fun answering one's own question. Thanks for the input.
    09-19-18 03:22 PM
  18. Ment's Avatar
    Yes adoptable storage doesn't work for 7.0-8.1 as its not compatible if file based encryption is implemented but its enabled again in 9.0. Don't know if any phone that has P beta uses it tho. Pixels of course don't have sd cards.
    09-19-18 04:36 PM
  19. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Yes adoptable storage doesn't work for 7.0-8.1 as its not compatible if file based encryption is implemented but its enabled again in 9.0. Don't know if any phone that has P beta uses it tho. Pixels of course don't have sd cards.
    True, they did mention in the article that it is available again on Android 9. Perhaps adoptable storage will be back for the Key3 or even when the Key2 gets upgraded to Pie next year?

    Something to look forward to I guess, even if I end up having to force enable it via ADB when that finally happens.

    Apparently there is a new Sony phone coming out soon that is supposed to be the first new phone with Pie. Typically Sony phones have SD cards too, so it will be interesting to see how they deal with it...
    09-19-18 05:12 PM
  20. Ment's Avatar
    True, they did mention in the article that it is available again on Android 9. Perhaps adoptable storage will be back for the Key3 or even when the Key2 gets upgraded to Pie next year?

    Something to look forward to I guess, even if I end up having to force enable it via ADB when that finally happens.

    Apparently there is a new Sony phone coming out soon that is supposed to be the first new phone with Pie. Typically Sony phones have SD cards too, so it will be interesting to see how they deal with it...
    I think most OEMs don't think adoptable storage is good for higher priced phone because of reliability issues and lacking any system to monitor and swap out cards within adoptable storage. No way to vet 'good' cards and thus more customer service problems down the line. In Android if your adoptable storage SD card goes down then complete factory reset is your only option.

    Sony would be a good one to watch. They did enable FBE for Oreo update and thus the adoptable storage option was nixed for them as well.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    09-19-18 05:26 PM
  21. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I think most OEMs don't think adoptable storage is good for higher priced phone because of reliability issues and lacking any system to monitor and swap out cards within adoptable storage. No way to vet 'good' cards and thus more customer service problems down the line. In Android if your adoptable storage SD card goes down then complete factory reset is your only option.

    Sony would be a good one to watch. They did enable FBE for Oreo update and thus the adoptable storage option was nixed for them as well.
    One possibility...not sure if this could work...but BlackBerry / BBMo could allow their locker app to access files on the SD card? One would think that would be a relatively easy way to either selectively encrypt files on the SD card, or perhaps even encrypt the entire thing?

    Of course they might want to make sure they iron out all the bugs before they try that one, Lol.
    09-19-18 06:02 PM
  22. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Anyway, always fun answering one's own question. Thanks for the input.
    Heeeyyy! I helped. Kinda.
    09-19-18 07:42 PM
  23. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Heeeyyy! I helped. Kinda.
    Ah alright, fair enough. Ha ha
    09-19-18 08:06 PM
  24. bsommerhalder's Avatar
    +1 for wishing we could encrypt portable SD cards.

    I do think about how silly it is to have an otherwise super-secure device that anyone could pop the SD card out of and easily access all of the files on it.
    09-20-18 03:37 AM

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