[Dakkaron]

You want to know what is relevant?

There is no Q10USB KB.

Nah, it doesn't exist. I guess, I must have been imagining it^^

So do everyone in the universe a favour and contact your partner and get him to provide us with actual numbers and experiences. Until then speak no more of it.

The worlds garbage bins are filled with I think, I wouldn't expect, I've already checked in my opinion.

What number do you want?

1: Cases that I currently daily-drive
2: Case designs that I am currently developing
3: Number of boards I soldered so far
4: Rough number of months of use so far
5: Number of keyboards you can make for €100 (not counting labor)

Missing any more numbers?


Regarding experiences:

The thing works. A new all-in-one PCB would make it better, especially easier to build. One major feature they would bring to the table is pass-through charging. Currently, the keyboard needs to be detached to charge the phone. Another thing would be that the new PCB would allow to reduce the microprocessors core clock to save some power.

The cases could use some tweaking, but they are very workable.

The software is working well but WIP. I am still playing will power saving features and improving the key mapping.

But your $100 limit is what makes it not feasible...

The reality is Dakkaron has said he isn't interested in making these. He tried looking into components that would require less soldering for those that wanted to try it themselves, but those require some level of scale. And he understands the interest isn't there.

For those with micro soldering skills, access to a 3D printer and a few weekends with nothing to do.... it's a cool project. And likly a few hundred buck to blow (not going to get this right the first time, or the 2nd time - the electronic assembly or the case).

But if you have to PAY for someone to do this... not sure $300 would cover it.

Honestly, that's not true. If you make a batch of 5, they cost €20 in parts each. If you only make a single one, due to minimum order quantities, you'd probably spend €40 in parts.

If you get the 3D print done professionally, that's probably another €40. If you have a friend with a 3D printer (which most people probably do by now), the case costs around €1 in filament and electricity.

When I solder this, it takes me about 20min. And I am not very good. So if you ask someone at an electronics repair shop, you are looking at maybe €30-€50 for their time. If you go to a repair caffee or makerspace, they will probably solder it for free.

So, according to my calculation, the worst possible estimate puts the price at €130. And if you put in a bit of time and effort with finding the right people, it's easily below €100.

[Yamahammer]

Snark scores zero points.

Daily driver since yesterday??

But if my comments got you off your behind and back into play, you're welcome.

Sent from my Nokia X20 using CB Forums mobile app

[Dakkaron]

Snark scores zero points.

Daily driver since yesterday??

But if my comments got you off your behind and back into play, you're welcome.

Sent from my Nokia X20 using CB Forums mobile app

Sorry for the snark. It's late, I'm tired and I was kinda annoyed by your pretty dismissive comments so far.

I am using the keyboard (read the electronics, not this specific case) for a few months daily. This specific case is new.

I've printed a lot of cases to try out different ideas. I think, the one I used for the longest time was probably the blue one on Github.

The white/red one I've used for a week or two now.

The one in the picture is one I made today. I am still not sure if it's an improvement. It's slimmer, but trades that for more length.

What actually got me posting more was Spartacus, who said, he needs some backup

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Honestly, that's not true. If you make a batch of 5, they cost €20 in parts each. If you only make a single one, due to minimum order quantities, you'd probably spend €40 in parts.

If you get the 3D print done professionally, that's probably another €40. If you have a friend with a 3D printer (which most people probably do by now), the case costs around €1 in filament and electricity.

When I solder this, it takes me about 20min. And I am not very good. So if you ask someone at an electronics repair shop, you are looking at maybe €30-€50 for their time. If you go to a repair caffee or makerspace, they will probably solder it for free.

So, according to my calculation, the worst possible estimate puts the price at €130. And if you put in a bit of time and effort with finding the right people, it's easily below €100.

Parts €20 x 2 (you have said in the past there were minimums on ordering parts and best to have some spares in case mistakes are made in soldering)
Printing €40 x 3 (you have said in the past that can be variances in machines and that getting the design for a new device can be a matter of a few of tries)
Soldering €50 (went with your number, but local repair shop told me just the simple soldering to replace a USB port would be $80 on a PlayBook, and that was a decade ago)

So €210 is about $220 USD...

I think what you are doing is GREAT. But if someone doesn't have the skill, their Library doesn't print 3D items for free, and they don't have a "repair caffee or Makerspace" to do the soldering for free.... this just isn't an option for them.

I hope you build one for spARTacus, as I don't see him being willing to put the effort (or money) into it himself.

[spARTacus]

...I hope you build one for spARTacus, as I don't see him being willing to put the effort (or money) into it himself.

You're wrong on the my willingness part, with regards to money and effort. I am however not foolish in terms of not recognizing the limits of my abilities and therefore it is a limited willingness (maybe that's what you meant, if so I agree). It is encouraging that a few folks seem to want me to have one. I do indeed want one. There are of course considerations for if I would be a best target/advocate for receiving limited efforts available from Dakkaron, as opposed to some of the other hard core PKB voices here in CB. If no one else raises their hand then the ongoing side discussions Dakkaron and I have already been having are probably going to result in me, not anyone else, with a next prototype. Mine is for my selfish reasons and would end up having the KB attached to a Samsung A21, and it will be long, and it would not be a printed case (well, those were my original thoughts, maybe they will change). Sure I would post pictures and discuss it and such. However, not sure that is what others would like to next see.

[Dakkaron]

Parts €20 x 2 (you have said in the past there were minimums on ordering parts and best to have some spares in case mistakes are made in soldering)
Printing €40 x 3 (you have said in the past that can be variances in machines and that getting the design for a new device can be a matter of a few of tries)
Soldering €50 (went with your number, but local repair shop told me just the simple soldering to replace a USB port would be $80 on a PlayBook, and that was a decade ago)

So €210 is about $220 USD...

I think what you are doing is GREAT. But if someone doesn't have the skill, their Library doesn't print 3D items for free, and they don't have a "repair caffee or Makerspace" to do the soldering for free.... this just isn't an option for them.

I hope you build one for spARTacus, as I don't see him being willing to put the effort (or money) into it himself.

If you want to save money on the prints, print without clearance and spend some time on it with a file.

You are right, buying double parts is not wrong. Though that doesn't really apply to all parts. For example, really destroying the Arduino (which is currently to most expensive part) is hard. I wouldn't buy two Arduinos, for example, and that's €12.

Regarding the soldering cost: It really depends on what kind of shop you go with. The price spread is enormous there. Last year I wanted some shop to replace a phone screen (couldn't get it to stick myself, had the parts already), so I called up a few places and got quotes from free to €50.


I know it's intimidating, but makerspaces exist everywhere. Every city with more than 100k inhabitants usually has multiple of them. I understand, that those places are not within the comfort zone of most people (they got a weird, really nerdy atmosphere), but they are great for this kind of thing.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

You're wrong on the my willingness part, with regards to money and effort. I am however not foolish in terms of not recognizing the limits of my abilities and therefore it is a limited willingness (maybe that's what you meant, if so I agree). It is encouraging that a few folks seem to want me to have one. I do indeed want one. There are of course considerations for if I would be a best target/advocate for receiving limited efforts available from Dakkaron, as opposed to some of the other hard core PKB voices here in CB. If no one else raises their hand then the ongoing side discussions Dakkaron and I have already been having are probably going to result in me, not anyone else, with a next prototype. Mine is for my selfish reasons and would end up having the KB attached to a Samsung A21, and it will be long, and it would not be a printed case (well, those were my original thoughts, maybe they will change). Sure I would post pictures and discuss it and such. However, not sure that is what others would like to next see.

Well Dakkaron says it should only cost about $120... is that not worth it? If not, what are you doing here?

[spARTacus]

Well Dakkaron says it should only cost about $120... is that not worth it? If not, what are you doing here?

Yeah I previously said I'd be more than willing to spend around $100. I think several others said the same, and also for SES.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yeah I previously said I'd be more than willing to spend around $100. I think several others said the same, and also for SES.

So another $20 is too much? Why haven't you built it?

Too be honest if I were Dakkaron I wouldn't build you one, I'd help you in your efforts to DO IT YOURSELF... thus proving that it isn't too hard or too expensive to be done by someone with no skill. Him building it for you, is just reinforcing my belief that this really isn't for anyone without the skill, equipment, time and money that this DYI project will require.

I never expected dozens and dozens of people doing this... but a single dozen should have joined in by now.

There is a huge gap between supporting something with words and supporting something with... time, energy and money.

[spARTacus]

So another $20 is too much? Why haven't you built it?

Too be honest if I were Dakkaron I wouldn't build you one, I'd help you in your efforts to DO IT YOURSELF... thus proving that it isn't too hard or too expensive to be done by someone with no skill. Him building it for you, is just reinforcing my belief that this really isn't for anyone without the skill, equipment, time and money that this DYI project will require.

I never expected dozens and dozens of people doing this... but a single dozen should have joined in by now.

There is a huge gap between supporting something with words and supporting something with... time, energy and money.

No an extra 20 probably isn't too much. I think I have already stated quite a few times that I don't think I have the ability to do the micro compent stuff. I am periodically re-assessing. If I were Dakkaron, I'd also do exactly what you are indicating, for my situation. For now, I think I have supported this quite a bit with what I have done to try to drum up more support, with yes only words, as opposed to for lack of my abilities. I am equally dissappointed that a single dozen (or ten) have not got onboard. There seem to be more than that who have expressed interest, but perhaps only for a fully finished/polished product.

[Yamahammer]

No an extra 20 probably isn't too much. I think I have already stated quite a few times that I don't think I have the ability to do the micro compent stuff. I am periodically re-assessing. If I were Dakkaron, I'd also do exactly what you are indicating, for my situation. For now, I think I have supported this quite a bit with what I have done to try to drum up more support, with yes only words, as opposed to for lack of my abilities. I am equally dissappointed that a single dozen (or ten) have not got onboard. There seem to be more than that who have expressed interest, but perhaps only for a fully finished/polished product.

Really, Dakkron is a saint. Send him $200 up front.

[spARTacus]

Really, Dakkron is a saint. Send him $200 up front.

Well, I might not send him $200 upfront, but yes sending him something (upfront) is part of the mix.

[Yamahammer]

You're wrong on the my willingness part, with regards to money and effort. I am however not foolish in terms of not recognizing the limits of my abilities and therefore it is a limited willingness (maybe that's what you meant, if so I agree). It is encouraging that a few folks seem to want me to have one. I do indeed want one. There are of course considerations for if I would be a best target/advocate for receiving limited efforts available from Dakkaron, as opposed to some of the other hard core PKB voices here in CB. If no one else raises their hand then the ongoing side discussions Dakkaron and I have already been having are probably going to result in me, not anyone else, with a next prototype. Mine is for my selfish reasons and would end up having the KB attached to a Samsung A21, and it will be long, and it would not be a printed case (well, those were my original thoughts, maybe they will change). Sure I would post pictures and discuss it and such. However, not sure that is what others would like to next see.

You thoughts too much.

"It is encouraging that a few folks seem to want me to have one. I do indeed want one."

Us wanting you to get one is to make you stop imagining having one. Send Dakkron seed money and when the final product is received send a second $200 whether you like the keyboard or not!

[Yamahammer]

Well, I might not send him $200 upfront, but yes sending him something (upfront) is part of the mix.

He's not worth $200? El Cheapo....

[spARTacus]

He's not worth $200? El Cheapo....

He is very valuable. I don't think I would send him $200 right now and I assume he wouldn't accept if I did.

[spARTacus]

You thoughts too much.

"It is encouraging that a few folks seem to want me to have one. I do indeed want one."

Us wanting you to get one is to make you stop imagining having one. Send Dakkron seed money and when the final product is received send a second $200 whether you like the keyboard or not!

I was being at least partially sarcastic and teasing, in response to what I perceived as some wanting to tell people what they should do or should want to do.

But yes, I appreciate that some might want me to have one so I'll stop discussing about only imagining having one. Maybe my attempts to drum up support, with words only, is working. Will you send some $ upfront, to help make me stop discussing in here?

[Yamahammer]

He is very valuable. I don't think I would send him $200 right now and I assume he wouldn't accept if I did.

Now that's what I call a valuable customer!

[Yamahammer]

I was being at least partially sarcastic and teasing, in response to what I perceived as some wanting to tell people what they should do or should want to do.

But yes, I appreciate that some might want me to have one so I'll stop discussing about only imagining having one. Maybe my attempts to drum up support, with words only, is working. Will you send some $ upfront, to help make me stop discussing in here?

Now you want money for doing nothing and you don't want to help the person doing all the lifting?

[spARTacus]

Now you want money for doing nothing and you don't want to help the person doing all the lifting?

Nope. I didn't ask to receive any money, and I assume that thus far I have viewed as being helpful.

[Yamahammer]

Nope. I didn't ask to receive any money, and I assume that thus far I have viewed as being helpful.

Helpful would be buying Dakkron a new 3D printer.

[spARTacus]

Helpful would be buying Dakkron a new 3D printer.

I am sure it would.

[Stefmob]

The new Titan is a total dissapointment for me, for the most part the lack of Security focused stuff.

The key2 is my first BlackBerry and at the same time the best phone I ever had.
I really enjoy that I type, but my screen stays the same no interruptions anymore. It will probably sound strange, but my company gave out iPhone's something (11 I thought), and I do the chatting, mailing, participate on forums etc to the max minimum, all because it irritates me how the phone handles those tasks. Simple example: when you read an email, and start typing your entire screen changed, with a fkb that doesnt happen.

Funny how thing change, 2 years ago I never had an fkb phone.
I really hope some company will build a great Fkb phone with good software and security utilities.

I considering to let my battery be replaced by a local phone store....

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The new Titan is a total dissapointment for me, for the most part the lack of Security focused stuff.

The key2 is my first BlackBerry and at the same time the best phone I ever had.
I really enjoy that I type, but my screen stays the same no interruptions anymore. It will probably sound strange, but my company gave out iPhone's something (11 I thought), and I do the chatting, mailing, participate on forums etc to the max minimum, all because it irritates me how the phone handles those tasks. Simple example: when you read an email, and start typing your entire screen changed, with a fkb that doesnt happen.

Funny how thing change, 2 years ago I never had an fkb phone.
I really hope some company will build a great Fkb phone with good software and security utilities.

I considering to let my battery be replaced by a local phone store....

I think if there was a way to unlock the boot rom (there isn't), and if someone was willing to create the right driver package to allow some of these ASOP variants..... KEY2 would still be the go to PKB device.

(But used ones would be $1000 and new ones might push $3000..... )

I really expected/hoped that Nokia would do a throwback PKB phone.... even if it were only a KaiOS powered feature phone.

[Stefmob]

I think if there was a way to unlock the boot rom (there isn't), and if someone was willing to create the right driver package to allow some of these ASOP variants..... KEY2 would still be the go to PKB device.

(But used ones would be $1000 and new ones might push $3000..... )

I really expected/hoped that Nokia would do a throwback PKB phone.... even if it were only a KaiOS powered feature phone.

I agree, if key2 would have its bootloader unlocked, it would really help. but dont know if the key2 would be popular among devolpers and customrom builders?

[eshropshire]

I think if there was a way to unlock the boot rom (there isn't), and if someone was willing to create the right driver package to allow some of these ASOP variants..... KEY2 would still be the go to PKB device.

(But used ones would be $1000 and new ones might push $3000..... )

I really expected/hoped that Nokia would do a throwback PKB phone.... even if it were only a KaiOS powered feature phone.

Problem is Nokia (HMD Global) is having financial struggles. If you check out their phones over the last 18+ months they are all pretty low end devices. Hopefully things will pick up and they might look into new areas.