[george_helgerson]

BBMo has the data and the plan... if you like the phones, buy one, if not, buy from a competitor. Just know, they’re only interested with success as they’ve put up the money...

Having been a BB user from the 957 until today (and favorites being the 9810, 9900, and Passport), my only wish is that all that money they're putting into the KeyOne and KEY2 will create a smartphone that's both better and has solid uptake in the market to assure success as a platform. I look forward to seeing the 2019 product roadmap and feature strategy. MWC would have been a great venue for that.

[conite]

The rebound I expected was to see phones that were better--not worse--than their predecessors.



Amazing, absolutely. Sustainable? I couldn't write a business case that defends the Blackberry Mobile platform. The only evidence I can put together is this article which states a BB Mobile goal of 3% market share by 2020, or 4,400,000 phones if we presume 1.49 billion were shipped last year. Seeing Blackberry shipped 850,000 smartphones in aggregate in 2017, they need a 74% compounded annual growth rate to hit that 3% share target.

First off, it was 3% of "premium" devices - a substantially lower goal. BBMo later suggested that that goal was still over-ambitious.

Second, the figure you quote was a single uncorroborated number based on one analyst's channel check 6 months after the KEYᵒⁿᵉ launch. No official number has ever been released.

Third, BBMo reported a 10% year-over-year growth rate in unit sales.

Fourth, the KEY² is the best BlackBerry-branded device I've ever owned, and I have (and still) owned most of them going back over 10 years. So obviously opinion varies as to your assertion regarding quality - as it does with almost every device on the planet.

[Chuck Finley69]

Having been a BB user from the 957 until today (and favorites being the 9810, 9900, and Passport), my only wish is that all that money they're putting into the KeyOne and KEY2 will create a smartphone that's both better and has solid uptake in the market to assure success as a platform. I look forward to seeing the 2019 product roadmap and feature strategy. MWC would have been a great venue for that.

I briefly used a BB pager then switched to Palm and HP devices before getting SonyEricsson R280LX device. I then got my AT&T BB7290 and I’ve been a supporter ever since. Times have changed, and we get what the most consumers will buy of a single device. Roadmaps aren’t published anymore because the landscape is way too competitive....

[Bbnivende]

Somehow I missed this news before. I guess that Alcatel will be TCL’s premium brand going forward. I suppose they could offer a BlackBerry version going forward for an additional price for the Enterprise market.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14061...-5g-smartphone

[conite]

Somehow I missed this news before. I guess that Alcatel will be TCL’s premium brand going forward. I suppose they could offer a BlackBerry version going forward for an additional price for the Enterprise market.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14061...-5g-smartphone

High-specs and premium can be mutually exclusive. I describe the KEY² as a premium phone.

[Vistaus]

Somehow I missed this news before. I guess that Alcatel will be TCL’s premium brand going forward. I suppose they could offer a BlackBerry version going forward for an additional price for the Enterprise market.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14061...-5g-smartphone

... because they can't have two premium brands?

[stlabrat]

with 5G network in its infency, (VZ's 5G is non-std... most of tech analysts don't even think they should be count as 5G), only limited city or region got access. BBMo better save resources to ensure the launch of 5G handsets in 2020 (possibly get their target 3% easily if they play their cards correctly - such as select proper modem, work with key suppliers and utilize the down turn of handset cycle of 2019 and their TV display strength.... I do agree with Chen that fold screen for phone is not really that progress... try to hold a open book and write anything on it is hard... fold screen is great for stationary device - 1. not folding many times, 2. not folding in sharp curvature, 3. do not use human support to position it and 4. large form factor great for stationary device, but not mobile... IMHO.

[Bbnivende]

... because they can't have two premium brands?

From an article:

"Smartphone brands Alcatel and BlackBerry are part of the TCL group with both being important parts of the “House of Brands” strategy that TCL has.

The strategy focuses on addressing different market segments as BlackBerry devices target people working within business while Alcatel is more of a value brand."

From TCL global marketing general manager Stefan Streit :

"“We are very committed to BlackBerry, we feel like there is a market for such a device. It is an iconic brand from the past and has a lot of fans around the globe. People still prefer a keyboard."

Perhaps people might spend $100 more for a BlackBerry version of the Alcatel 7 but only if the Alcatel is actually a good product in the first place.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Somehow I missed this news before. I guess that Alcatel will be TCL’s premium brand going forward. I suppose they could offer a BlackBerry version going forward for an additional price for the Enterprise market.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14061...-5g-smartphone

As it said... the Alcatel brand is best "known" in Europe... possible a premium Alcatel will sell there.

Most of the rest of the world thinks of Alcatel as a cheap (price/quality) Chinese phone manufacture. Hardware isn't viewed very well by end users, and neither is their support or software. Even in Europe, they haven't had a non entry level phone in four years now.

Nothing that TCL can't fix by investing more into their products and their processes... problem now is they don't have the economy of scale that Huawei, Oppo and Xiaomi have. That's very important when your margins are only $15 or $20 a phone.

The market for value Flagships has been set... as the newcomer the Alcatel 7 will need to be cheaper than say the OnePlus 7 (4G varrant is suppose to be $569, 5G price hasn't been released yet) that has pretty much the same specs as the Alcatel 7. Clearly Oppo can make a profit on the OnePlus at that price.... with all the millions of units they sell. Can Alcatel?

[Bbnivende]

IMO the Alcatel 7 5G would be still priced below the One Plus etc. Premium is a relative term. In this case, premium compared with their other Alcatel phones. This could be a case of a slow gradual improvement like KIA autos.

TCL has formed a strategic partnership with Xiaomi and perhaps this might help TCL on the phone side and Xiaomi on the appliance TV side??

[Vistaus]

IMO the Alcatel 7 5G would be still priced below the One Plus etc. Premium is a relative term. In this case, premium compared with their other Alcatel phones. This could be a case of a slow gradual improvement like KIA autos.

TCL has formed a strategic partnership with Xiaomi and perhaps this might help TCL on the phone side and Xiaomi on the appliance TV side??

The biggest issue with Alcatel is updates, or rather the lack thereof. That's what they are known for, besides their cheap phones. So if they want to compete in the premium market, they're going to have a tough time as most competitors in that market actually do release updates. So they need to prove that they're actually going to update the 7, else they will never sell enough of them to make a profit or at minimum break even.

[Bbnivende]

The biggest issue with Alcatel is updates, or rather the lack thereof. That's what they are known for, besides their cheap phones. So if they want to compete in the premium market, they're going to have a tough time as most competitors in that market actually do release updates. So they need to prove that they're actually going to update the 7, else they will never sell enough of them to make a profit or at minimum break even.

Yes, updates, skin, camera and general longevity probably not great but this still would be a cheaper device. They might be going for something lower than $400.

When I go to the phone store there is usually a bit of a line up. It should be no surprise that most consumers have almost no clue about how their phone works. The guy beside me was shopping for a new iPhone because is battery was “failing”. He had no idea that iPhone includes a battery health setting and it turned out that his phone still had a 88% battery capacity.

All this to say that in the mid-range Android sector consumers mainly look at the price , name recognition and perhaps the general fit and finish. Security updates and OS version not so much.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yes, updates, skin, camera and general longevity probably not great but this still would be a cheaper device. They might be going for something lower than $400.

When I go to the phone store there is usually a bit of a line up. It should be no surprise that most consumers have almost no clue about how their phone works. The guy beside me was shopping for a new iPhone because is battery was “failing”. He had no idea that iPhone includes a battery health setting and it turned out that his phone still had a 88% battery capacity.

All this to say that in the mid-range Android sector consumers mainly look at the price , name recognition and perhaps the general fit and finish. Security updates and OS version not so much.

How does TCL build the same phone for $100s less?

Oppo, Huawei, and Nokia are all offering up value Flagships and mid-range phones... Unless TCL Limited is going to back TCL Communications for a year or so... to just give phones away, I don't see TCL beating anyone on price. They don't have the buying power, the manufacturing capabilities nor the volume to support what you describe.

If price is all you have... you have lost.

As stated, TCL would have to turn around the quality control, the support , the updates... and while that sounds easy..... they haven't done it for the last four years as they lost 30% of their business each year. Time to turn it around was that first year...

[Bbnivende]

How does TCL build the same phone for $100s less?

Oppo, Huawei, and Nokia are all offering up value Flagships and mid-range phones... Unless TCL Limited is going to back TCL Communications for a year or so... to just give phones away, I don't see TCL beating anyone on price. They don't have the buying power, the manufacturing capabilities nor the volume to support what you describe.

If price is all you have... you have lost.

As stated, TCL would have to turn around the quality control, the support , the updates... and while that sounds easy..... they haven't done it for the last four years as they lost 30% of their business each year. Time to turn it around was that first year...

Anecdotal. I was at my Bell and TELUS stores today. The cheapest phone on display was the Key LE at TELUS and the Moto G6 Play and the LG Q Stylo + at Bell.

In Canada it seems hard to find a mid range phone on display. Your average customer does not shop around a lot beyond the carrier stores. There is an opportunity for TCL if they could get the carriers on board. There is a space in the carrier line ups for a $350 - $425 US device.

I agree though, in the past Alcatel has not made very compelling devices .

[Vistaus]

Anecdotal. I was at my Bell and TELUS stores today. The cheapest phone on display was the Key LE at TELUS and the Moto G6 Play and the LG Q Stylo +.

In Canada it seems hard to find a mid range phone on display. Your average customer does not shop around a lot beyond the carrier stores. There is an opportunity for TCL if they could get the carriers on board.

I agree though, in the past Alcatel has not made very compelling devices .

Yeah, Alcatel has always been subpar, even when they were still French (i.e. before TCL got a hold of them).

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Anecdotal. I was at my Bell and TELUS stores today. The cheapest phone on display was the Key LE at TELUS and the Moto G6 Play and the LG Q Stylo + at Bell.

In Canada it seems hard to find a mid range phone on display. Your average customer does not shop around a lot beyond the carrier stores. There is an opportunity for TCL if they could get the carriers on board. There is a space in the carrier line ups for a $350 - $425 US device.

I agree though, in the past Alcatel has not made very compelling devices .

There are opportunities for every OEM that is making $350 - $425 phones... to be honest, I see the biggest opportunity for Nokia. They are already making a wide range of products, they have a very good reputation - lot of buz around their new phones, and seem to be a solid OEM.

But maybe your carrier just doesn't want to bother with devices in that price range? My Carrier, VZW has five sub $250 phones, one $360 (iPhone 6S) and then most everything else is $450 and above. Might be that the price point $250 - $450 is something that Carrier's have found little need of... especially when most consumers here are looking at the montly cost.

I think the market is mature enough that that gap is there for a reason.

[Bbnivende]

For all intents and purposes Canadian carriers stock, Apple, Samsung, Google, Huawei , LG and BlackBerry. If BlackBerry made a really good all touch phone, the carriers here may stock it . The key being the type of game changer that TCL’s TV division sells. I think maybe under the TCL nameplate but offering BlackBerry Secure and a minimal skin like Nokia.

It would have to be a really good phone though and in Canada at least BlackBerry is supported.

TCL TV’s have not made it to our markets in great numbers yet. The Canadian market is about the same size as California so obviously TCL has to do what it takes to gain acceptance by the carriers there.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

For all intents and purposes Canadian carriers stock, Apple, Samsung, Google, Huawei , LG and BlackBerry. If BlackBerry made a really good all touch phone, the carriers here may stock it . The key being the type of game changer that TCL’s TV division sells. I think maybe under the TCL nameplate but offering BlackBerry Secure and a minimal skin like Nokia.

It would have to be a really good phone though and in Canada at least BlackBerry is supported.

TCL TV’s have not made it to our markets in great numbers yet. The Canadian market is about the same size as California so obviously TCL has to do what it takes to gain acceptance by the carriers there.

If you don't have TCL TV's there, what would a TCL Brand mean to anyone?

Heard HTC is looking to offer up their "brand" (just like BlackBerry and Nokia), that might be a better option for TCL. But again they'd have to make big changes in production, quality control, OS updates and support if they intend to keep doing business with whatever brand they use. And they'd still have a tough time competing with the likes of Huawei that you said is already there.