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  1. richidrich's Avatar
    A new device (key3) would probably be released in late autumn Or mid winter 2019.
    Attached Thumbnails KEY3 release in 2019?-7954.jpg  
    09-11-19 12:59 PM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Welcome to CrackBerry!

    It's doubtful... as we usually have seen BBMo products at least six months before they hit the market.

    CRM's aren't the best source of info....

    If there is a KEY3, my guess would be MWC 2020... but I wouldn't even bet my lunch money on that.
    09-11-19 02:26 PM
  3. whatsever's Avatar
    There is only a prototype and doubt there will be a new device because TCL will not brings it out ,only if they pay lesser fees and patents. It seems BlackBerry will not bend over so ...
    09-11-19 03:42 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    There is only a prototype and doubt there will be a new device because TCL will not brings it out ,only if they pay lesser fees and patents. It seems BlackBerry will not bend over so ...
    BB is a capitalist enterprise. It’s not a charity. Either it gets paid or it doesn’t show up. Seems only fair. TCL isn’t broke. It just doesn’t wish to lose money either.
    Bravestar79 and BigAl_BB9900 like this.
    09-11-19 03:55 PM
  5. sorgo's Avatar
    I expect the hypothetical key3 to be officially announced at least 6 months after the first info leak which did not yet happen. Plus a few months to hit the market. So i call bull****.
    09-11-19 09:00 PM
  6. John Albert's Avatar
    I expect the hypothetical key3 to be officially announced at least 6 months after the first info leak which did not yet happen. Plus a few months to hit the market. So i call bull****.
    Based on this schedule, they might not have a device to show at MWC 2020.
    It is fewer than 6 months now, and no device leak.
    09-11-19 09:41 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I expect the hypothetical key3 to be officially announced at least 6 months after the first info leak which did not yet happen. Plus a few months to hit the market. So i call bull****.
    If they don't need carrier certifications, the time to market can be reduced to a couple of months.
    09-11-19 10:41 PM
  8. EricArden's Avatar
    There is only a prototype and doubt there will be a new device because TCL will not brings it out ,only if they pay lesser fees and patents. It seems BlackBerry will not bend over so ...
    Prototype? Where? All I've seen are renderings some fan has made. Fan made "prototypes" have been around forever. It's far more interesting to design something with buttons than to design a typical slab. So I get the allure to it.

    But to my knowledge there isn't even a prototype.
    09-12-19 01:27 AM
  9. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    Prototype? Where? All I've seen are renderings some fan has made.
    He is referring to the rumor that a new phone was developed but is stuck in limbo while TCL and BBRY hash out new licensing terms.
    Crusader03 likes this.
    09-12-19 09:28 AM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    He is referring to the rumor that a new phone was developed but is stuck in limbo while TCL and BBRY hash out new licensing terms.
    Licensing terms wouldn’t keep out prototype leak.... I don’t think anyone is that far long as the Key2 licensing still needs to be milked. From what’s been observed you could probably fit the Key hardware staff in the same room with BB10 staff and still have room for BBOS staff and cleaning supplies
    09-12-19 09:32 AM
  11. EricArden's Avatar
    He is referring to the rumor that a new phone was developed but is stuck in limbo while TCL and BBRY hash out new licensing terms.
    How do we know that TCL and BBM are hashing out a new licensing deal?

    Where is it stated officially that the deal is up for renegotiation or is this just a rumor? I need official statements or facts posted somewhere otherwise it's just a rumor.

    How do we even know a prototype has even been in the works? There hasn't been any leaks that I can find anywhere. Just a bunch of fan renderings and pipe dreams, but nothing official.

    Also, there is no way a company like TCL would go through the trouble of making a prototype if an agreement wasn't already made.

    Fact. Earlier this year (2019) TCL stated they're happy with the brand's growth and understand it's going to take some time to get to where they want it to be. They also said that they're not going to make a new phone just to make a phone.....they want to wait for a legit need to upgrade....

    With bbm's recent statement of working on android Q, perhaps the rumor that bbm is dedicated all its efforts to make 5G safe. Probably put a hiatus on the key3 because of this. I believe we'll hear word sometime in 2020 about a key3 and it'll be 5G.
    I was skeptical of a 5G being a real thing, BUT with that recent bbm statement it's seeming more and more plausible.
    09-12-19 01:57 PM
  12. sorgo's Avatar
    Key2 timeline

    11/24/2017 geekbench leak
    6/6/2018 official announcement
    7/12/2018 US market release
    09-12-19 02:16 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    How do we know that TCL and BBM are hashing out a new licensing deal?

    Where is it stated officially that the deal is up for renegotiation or is this just a rumor? I need official statements or facts posted somewhere otherwise it's just a rumor.

    How do we even know a prototype has even been in the works? There hasn't been any leaks that I can find anywhere. Just a bunch of fan renderings and pipe dreams, but nothing official.

    Also, there is no way a company like TCL would go through the trouble of making a prototype if an agreement wasn't already made.

    Fact. Earlier this year (2019) TCL stated they're happy with the brand's growth and understand it's going to take some time to get to where they want it to be. They also said that they're not going to make a new phone just to make a phone.....they want to wait for a legit need to upgrade....

    With bbm's recent statement of working on android Q, perhaps the rumor that bbm is dedicated all its efforts to make 5G safe. Probably put a hiatus on the key3 because of this. I believe we'll hear word sometime in 2020 about a key3 and it'll be 5G.
    I was skeptical of a 5G being a real thing, BUT with that recent bbm statement it's seeming more and more plausible.
    If all you consider are official statements, then you may be waiting a long time.

    I can tell you that for the first time since April of 2017, there has been ZERO activity on the update servers for over a month. For the first time since April of 2017, there have been NO updates for OS builds on PTCRB. We KNOW from Optiemus' financial statements that, due to low sales volumes, they are currently involved in legal proceedings against BlackBerry to get themselves out of paying a large number of outstanding invoices. Given this, even without inside knowledge, it appears the relationship between BlackBerry Limited and TCL is strained. Add a bit of corroborated rumours, and the fact that they are currently in negotiations is not that big a leap.
    John Albert likes this.
    09-12-19 02:42 PM
  14. kvndoom's Avatar
    Licensing terms wouldn’t keep out prototype leak.... I don’t think anyone is that far long as the Key2 licensing still needs to be milked. From what’s been observed you could probably fit the Key hardware staff in the same room with BB10 staff and still have room for BBOS staff and cleaning supplies
    I hope the broom closet at least has Internet!
    09-12-19 02:48 PM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I hope the broom closet at least has Internet!
    WiFi
    09-12-19 03:48 PM
  16. EricArden's Avatar
    If all you consider are official statements, then you may be waiting a long time.

    I can tell you that for the first time since April of 2017, there has been ZERO activity on the update servers for over a month. For the first time since April of 2017, there have been NO updates for OS builds on PTCRB. We KNOW from Optiemus' financial statements that, due to low sales volumes, they are currently involved in legal proceedings against BlackBerry to get themselves out of paying a large number of outstanding invoices. Given this, even without inside knowledge, it appears the relationship between BlackBerry Limited and TCL is strained. Add a bit of corroborated rumours, and the fact that they are currently in negotiations is not that big a leap.
    Optiemus is an entirely different company than TCL. So we can't assume that TCL is having the same hardships that Optiemus is having.
    1) vast majority of BlackBerry fans want pkb which Optiemus doesn't make
    2) they're limited to their market and their market alone per the agreement
    3) TCL doesn't appear to be having the same ill will towards BlackBerry as Optiemus is having, due to the fact that they still cross promote each other and both actively display their phones....ones with pkb anyway. I believe they're dropping the notion it's possible to sell an android BlackBerry without a pkb....which all attempts to do so have failed and we only remember the pkb phones because that's what fans want.....especially since bb10 is done. BlackBerry has no brandability otherwise.

    The I haven't received any updates but that doesn't mean they're not going to make one. If 5G is really as insecure and complex as the news is making it out to be, it would make sense that BlackBerry is dedicating all of its time to solving that rather than bothering with an update to a phone as old as the key2 and KEYone.
    It's been said officially that BlackBerry is ready for android Q. Proof they're doing something!

    Plus, BlackBerry might just be that far ahead of the curve in terms of security updates which they have done. Why make an update if u don't need too? I mean a key2 is only so fast.
    09-12-19 04:06 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Optiemus is an entirely different company than TCL. So we can't assume that TCL is having the same hardships that Optiemus is having.
    1) vast majority of BlackBerry fans want pkb which Optiemus doesn't make
    2) they're limited to their market and their market alone per the agreement
    3) TCL doesn't appear to be having the same ill will towards BlackBerry as Optiemus is having, due to the fact that they still cross promote each other and both actively display their phones....ones with pkb anyway. I believe they're dropping the notion it's possible to sell an android BlackBerry without a pkb....which all attempts to do so have failed and we only remember the pkb phones because that's what fans want.....especially since bb10 is done. BlackBerry has no brandability otherwise.

    The I haven't received any updates but that doesn't mean they're not going to make one. If 5G is really as insecure and complex as the news is making it out to be, it would make sense that BlackBerry is dedicating all of its time to solving that rather than bothering with an update to a phone as old as the key2 and KEYone.
    It's been said officially that BlackBerry is ready for android Q. Proof they're doing something!

    Plus, BlackBerry might just be that far ahead of the curve in terms of security updates which they have done. Why make an update if u don't need too? I mean a key2 is only so fast.
    Oh my. Where to start...

    Optiemus also sold the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and KEY² under sub-licence. Volumes were abysmal, so it doesn't take rocket science to extend that to TCL. Let's also add that BB PT Merah Putih sold the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and Aurora in Indonesia, and subsequently went out of business.

    This cross-promotion you speak of is simply to exhaust inventory. Both companies have a fiduciary duty to mitigate losses.

    The only thing "Q-ready" is the app suite - which is sold on Play Store for all devices.

    PLUS, as I indicated, what is happening here is completely unprecedented:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1381535354

    BBMo has been impeccable with security patches until now.

    I myself don't usually jump on the rumour bandwagon - far from it. I have been arguing here for months that I would not acquiesce until hard, demonstrable, testable lines have been crossed. The complete shutdown of the link between BlackBerry Limited and TCL with respect to OS builds is that line for me.
    John Albert likes this.
    09-12-19 04:18 PM
  18. EricArden's Avatar
    Oh my. Where to start...

    Optiemus also sold the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and KEY² under sub-licence. Volumes were abysmal, so it doesn't take rocket science to extend that to TCL. Let's also add that BB PT Merah Putih sold the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and Aurora in Indonesia, and subsequently went out of business.

    This cross-promotion you speak of is simply to exhaust inventory. Both companies have a fiduciary duty to mitigate losses.

    The only thing "Q-ready" is the app suite - which is sold on Play Store for all devices.

    PLUS, as I indicated, what is happening here is completely unprecedented:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1381535354

    BBMo has been impeccable with security patches until now.

    I myself don't usually jump on the rumour bandwagon - far from it. I have been arguing here for months that I would not acquiesce until hard, demonstrable, testable lines have been crossed. The complete shutdown of the link between BlackBerry Limited and TCL with respect to OS builds is that line for me.
    A sub-license isn't a direct comparison. There would be an additional fee on an already (BlackBerry taxed) device making it too expensive for a market with less $$ than average.
    What $$$ figures or articles would lead you to believe that the KEYone and key2 didn't sell well enough to warrant another device? Those numbers haven't been disclosed and are locked up tight.

    Speaking of updates, remember when BlackBerry said it was going to shut down bb10 in 2017? Then it extended it. Then again in 2018....again extended it. It swore early 2019 is it, but again we got ANOTHER extension.
    This shows me that BlackBerry mobile is still backing up their products and will continue to due so. Though it may not be as timely as we'd like.

    Until one of them comes out and says...."we're done". I don't think a key3 is off the table.
    09-12-19 04:38 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    A sub-license isn't a direct comparison. There would be an additional fee on an already (BlackBerry taxed) device making it too expensive for a market with less $$ than average.
    What $$$ figures or articles would lead you to believe that the KEYone and key2 didn't sell well enough to warrant another device? Those numbers haven't been disclosed and are locked up tight.

    Speaking of updates, remember when BlackBerry said it was going to shut down bb10 in 2017? Then it extended it. Then again in 2018....again extended it. It swore early 2019 is it, but again we got ANOTHER extension.
    This shows me that BlackBerry mobile is still backing up their products and will continue to due so. Though it may not be as timely as we'd like.

    Until one of them comes out and says...."we're done". I don't think a key3 is off the table.
    Not sure what BlackBerry Limited's BB10 has to do with TCL's KEYx devices.

    TCL sold Optiemus KEYx devices at a bulk, wholesale rate - it wouldn't add anything to the sale price.

    No one is saying that Pie and/or continued patches and/or a KEY³ are/is completely off the table - but it won't be under the current terms of the existing licencing agreement - that's for 100% sure. Everything depends on the results of the current negotiations (which may or may not be already completed).
    John Albert and Livermore like this.
    09-12-19 04:55 PM
  20. EricArden's Avatar
    Not sure what BlackBerry Limited's BB10 has to do with TCL's KEYx devices.

    TCL sold Optiemus KEYx devices at a bulk, wholesale rate - it wouldn't add anything to the sale price.

    No one is saying that Pie and/or continued patches and/or a KEY³ are/is completely off the table - but it won't be under the current terms of the existing licencing agreement - that's for 100% sure. Everything depends on the results of the current negotiations (which may or may not be already completed).
    BB10 doesn't have anything to do with the Key series...directly anyway.
    Was just drawing a comparison to their continued support to their own brand. We should still continue to see them support their current android platform.

    The hypothetical negotiations between TCL and BlackBerry haven't been confirmed. Everything about it seems to be one big assumption rather than based in fact.
    We don't know what the original contracts terms stated.
    We'd have to assume TCL isn't happy with BlackBerry for these negotiations to even be warented. This is, TCL has stated they're happy with the key series. So why would negotiations even need to be a thing?
    We dont have dollar figures.
    Optiemus may have gotten the raw end of the deal, but quite frankly it's not the same deal. They might be able to sell KEYone and key2 devices, but their deal still isn't that great. They wanted to make their own BlackBerry phones which I'm assuming have failed because no one wants an all touch BlackBerry.

    Fact is the only confirmed statement we've received from TCL is "they're happy with the brand's growth".

    If you can provide a link, forum, or article where these supposed negotiations are confirmed I'd really like to see them. For real, I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious.
    09-12-19 06:04 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    BB10 doesn't have anything to do with the Key series...directly anyway.
    Was just drawing a comparison to their continued support to their own brand. We should still continue to see them support their current android platform.

    The hypothetical negotiations between TCL and BlackBerry haven't been confirmed. Everything about it seems to be one big assumption rather than based in fact.
    We don't know what the original contracts terms stated.
    We'd have to assume TCL isn't happy with BlackBerry for these negotiations to even be warented. This is, TCL has stated they're happy with the key series. So why would negotiations even need to be a thing?
    We dont have dollar figures.
    Optiemus may have gotten the raw end of the deal, but quite frankly it's not the same deal. They might be able to sell KEYone and key2 devices, but their deal still isn't that great. They wanted to make their own BlackBerry phones which I'm assuming have failed because no one wants an all touch BlackBerry.

    Fact is the only confirmed statement we've received from TCL is "they're happy with the brand's growth".

    If you can provide a link, forum, or article where these supposed negotiations are confirmed I'd really like to see them. For real, I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious.
    If you only go by official press releases or marketing fluff to form your opinions, then you have between nothing and spin.
    09-12-19 06:24 PM
  22. Invictus0's Avatar
    With bbm's recent statement of working on android Q, perhaps the rumor that bbm is dedicated all its efforts to make 5G safe. Probably put a hiatus on the key3 because of this. I believe we'll hear word sometime in 2020 about a key3 and it'll be 5G.
    I was skeptical of a 5G being a real thing, BUT with that recent bbm statement it's seeming more and more plausible.
    BlackBerry has nothing to do with 5G, simply using a BlackBerry doesn't make your network safe either.
    John Albert likes this.
    09-13-19 12:20 AM
  23. Livermore's Avatar
    I expect the Key3 to be released summer 2020.

    But someone on crackberry made a comment saying how BBMobile might've released the LE as the third device in its contract so now they've completed it. Hoping this isn't the case at all, really looking forward to the Key3
    09-13-19 02:33 AM
  24. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I expect the Key3 to be released summer 2020.

    But someone on crackberry made a comment saying how BBMobile might've released the LE as the third device in its contract so now they've completed it. Hoping this isn't the case at all, really looking forward to the Key3
    Not sure there was every a requirement for number of models.... but the LE would have been number four for BBMo (forget the Motion?). We don't really know all the terms....

    We do know it was for five years. And one would suspect that there were some milestones with minimum amounts to ensure the licensees were covering BlackBerry's cost and then some.... My guess is everyone missed on the 2017 numbers and BlackBerry put them on notice that 2018 had better improve. BBMP just dropped out. Optiemus moved forward with the two phones they had been simmering for over a year to supplement their BBMo sub-licenses (they probable didn't get credit for those). And BBMo provide both a higher grade and a lower price point with the two KEY2s.

    I really think if TCL and BlackBerry were moving forward... they would have worked things out six months ago. While this is all new to some here, it's not new to either of them.

    My guess is like any bad breakup they are not fighting on how to move forward but who has to pay off all the debit.
    09-17-19 08:52 AM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Not sure there was every a requirement for number of models.... but the LE would have been number four for BBMo (forget the Motion?). We don't really know all the terms....

    We do know it was for five years. And one would suspect that there were some milestones with minimum amounts to ensure the licensees were covering BlackBerry's cost and then some.... My guess is everyone missed on the 2017 numbers and BlackBerry put them on notice that 2018 had better improve. BBMP just dropped out. Optiemus moved forward with the two phones they had been simmering for over a year to supplement their BBMo sub-licenses (they probable didn't get credit for those). And BBMo provide both a higher grade and a lower price point with the two KEY2s.

    I really think if TCL and BlackBerry were moving forward... they would have worked things out six months ago. While this is all new to some here, it's not new to either of them.

    My guess is like any bad breakup they are not fighting on how to move forward but who has to pay off all the debit.
    Plus, they’ve completely forgotten about the kids through all this ;-(
    09-17-19 12:13 PM

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