[bb10adopter111]

No one is saying that a phone camera will replace a high end point and shoot. It’s just not possible... yet. But one thing for sure... no one is willing to carry around two devices. 99% of people will chose the smartphone over the camera.... so manufacturers that don’t understand this reality will fall behind.

BTW... most of the recent award winning pictures were taken with phone cameras.

Every phone today has an excellent camera for 99% of normal use by normal humans. If the camera is the MOST important requirement, then your choices are limited. One certainly doesn't have to carry a separate camera to take a very good casual snapshot. Heck, my nearly 6 year old Z10 camera is great for most situations.

Today's smartphones are Swiss army knives, a compromise between convenience and quality. The majority of people care more about photographs than long-form written compositions, and there are many mainstream devices that cater to them.

Blackberry's cameras don't need to be state-of-the-art to be more than good enough for the average human, who, let's be honest, can't even compose a good photograph to save his or her life in the first place.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[bobshine]

Not representative, my ***. You were talking about awards and they won 'em. If you meant "representative of the general population", you should've said so in the first place.

Well if you read the original posted I replied to, we were talking about bringing a phone and a compact camera vs carrying just a phone with a great camera.

No one was talking about professional photographers and their awards. In fact, I even mentioned the 99% of the population. I don’t believe 99% of the population are professional photographers.

But 99% of the population do take pictures and do win awards. And their pictures are beautiful.

[bobshine]

Every phone today has an excellent camera for 99% of normal use by normal humans. If the camera is the MOST important requirement, then your choices are limited. One certainly doesn't have to carry a separate camera to take a very good casual snapshot. Heck, my nearly 6 year old Z10 camera is great for most situations.

Today's smartphones are Swiss army knives, a compromise between convenience and quality. The majority of people care more about photographs than long-form written compositions, and there are many mainstream devices that cater to them.

Blackberry's cameras don't need to be state-of-the-art to be more than good enough for the average human, who, let's be honest, can't even compose a good photograph to save his or her life in the first place.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Yeah but you know how humans are. Bragging rights, **** contest... even if they know how to use a camera they want the best one. Beside Apple, Google and Samsung has really dumbed down their cameras to the average persons. Lots better than the point and shoot compact cameras we used to have.

[tfitzpat03]

"BlackBerry KEY2"

I have no idea why they went with a mediocre dual camera setup instead of one good sensor with OIS. No BlackBerry users need dual cameras, some Classics had no camera!

Attachment 441637

I agree with this 100%.

[attaturk]

BlackBerry/TCL must step up their camera software if they are to compete in this market.

look at the competition around you. iPhone, Pixel phones, Samsung, One plus 6, Huawei... just to name a few who are doing FAR better when it comes to the camera.

[Trouveur]

BlackBerry/TCL must step up their camera software if they are to compete in this market.

look at the competition around you. iPhone, Pixel phones, Samsung, One plus 6, Huawei... just to name a few who are doing FAR better when it comes to the camera.

Lol, the "few" you named are the leaders in smartphone camera.

If you expect a mid range device from TCL to compete with flagships from Huawei, Samsung or Apple in term of camera, be prepared to be disappointed.


Posted via CB10

[Tsepz_GP]

'Cause they need new customers in order to survive? Loyal fans are always good to have, but long-term, unless that loyal fan base is the size of at least Huawei, is not going to be profitable. And in order to get new customers, they need to be on par. Sure, the camera software sucks but at least they can say "we have 2 cameras", so in that regard they are on par.

Agreed.

However I do believe they could have done more with the Dual Camera setup, e.g. They could have made it a Wide Angle Lense, and just made the Camera more versatile.

[anon(10562251)]

Every phone today has an excellent camera for 99% of normal use by normal humans. If the camera is the MOST important requirement, then your choices are limited. One certainly doesn't have to carry a separate camera to take a very good casual snapshot. Heck, my nearly 6 year old Z10 camera is great for most situations.

Today's smartphones are Swiss army knives, a compromise between convenience and quality. The majority of people care more about photographs than long-form written compositions, and there are many mainstream devices that cater to them.

Blackberry's cameras don't need to be state-of-the-art to be more than good enough for the average human, who, let's be honest, can't even compose a good photograph to save his or her life in the first place.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Define "good enough".

I actually need a camera for work, one that takes great photos in low light and won't drain my battery with a flash on every single shot. OIS is also a must for decent video.

The unsatisfactory camera is my main reason for leaving the brand. And, if you've noticed, it's consistently the #1 feature various competitors in the industry are using to woo new customers.

If they continue to neglect the camera, BlackBerry is dead in the water.

[bb10adopter111]

Define "good enough".

I actually need a camera for work, one that takes great photos in low light and won't drain my battery with a flash on every single shot. OIS is also a must for decent video.

The unsatisfactory camera is my main reason for leaving the brand. And, if you've noticed, it's consistently the #1 feature various competitors in the industry are using to woo new customers.

If they continue to neglect the camera, BlackBerry is dead in the water.

To me, "good enough" means that people want to take a picture, they take a picture, and they're happy. The camera quality doesn't factor into their buying decision because they don't perceive the differences between phones in their day-to-day lives and don't know that quality is ever an issue with a mid-tier or better phone.

I have never known a single person in the hundreds of professionals in my network talk about the camera on their phone either as a positive or negative. The same goes for my friends and family. Most of them say they only use the camera for casual snapshots and so long as it focuses and uses auto flash when needed that's "good enough."

My networks primarily consists of people with advanced degrees and executive positions in large organizations and B2B startups. About half use iPhones (mostly 3+ years old, with the iPhone 6 being the most common). Their attitude towards their phones is generally that they will replace them when they break. Several have performed their own screen replacements The Android users are all over the map: LG, Pixel, Sony, Samsung, Huawei, etc. I am the only BlackBerry user. All are happy with their phones, and none of them have any interest in a PKB phone. Quite a few like the security and privacy features on my KEYone.

Almost 100% of them had a BlackBerry for work prior to 2010.

In terms of social networks, they are on FB and LinkedIn, with about half also on Twitter. No one has ever mentioned Instagram or any other photo-oriented networks.

Ages range from. 30-60.

Obviously this is not a representative sample of smartphone users, but it's a very representative sample of professionals in the US. The reason they won't buy a BlackBerry is 1) they are happy with their current phone, and 2) they don't desire a PKB. The camera was not a factor in the buying decision for their current phone and is unlikely to be in the selection of their next phone.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10562251)]

To me, "good enough" means that people want to take a picture, they take a picture, and they're happy. The camera quality doesn't factor into their buying decision because they don't perceive the differences between phones in their day-to-day lives and don't know that quality is ever an issue with a mid-tier or better phone.

I have never known a single person in the hundreds of professionals in my network talk about the camera on their phone either as a positive or negative. The same goes for my friends and family. Most of them say they only use the camera for casual snapshots and so long as it focuses and uses auto flash when needed that's "good enough."

My networks primarily consists of people with advanced degrees and executive positions in large organizations and B2B startups. About half use iPhones (mostly 3+ years old, with the iPhone 6 being the most common). Their attitude towards their phones is generally that they will replace them when they break. Several have performed their own screen replacements The Android users are all over the map: LG, Pixel, Sony, Samsung, Huawei, etc. I am the only BlackBerry user. All are happy with their phones, and none of them have any interest in a PKB phone. Quite a few like the security and privacy features on my KEYone.

Almost 100% of them had a BlackBerry for work prior to 2010.

In terms of social networks, they are on FB and LinkedIn, with about half also on Twitter. No one has ever mentioned Instagram or any other photo-oriented networks.

Ages range from. 30-60.

Obviously this is not a representative sample of smartphone users, but it's a very representative sample of professionals in the US. The reason they won't buy a BlackBerry is 1) they are happy with their current phone, and 2) they don't desire a PKB. The camera was not a factor in the buying decision for their current phone and is unlikely to be in the selection of their next phone.

Posted with my trusty Z10

TL;DR. But you could have stopped after your first sentence, because that is the exact problem with the cameras in BlackBerry phones. Their cameras aren't good enough, the differences are perceptible, and it's more than sufficient justification to take one's money elsewhere. Keyboard or no keyboard.

[bb10adopter111]

TL;DR. But you could have stopped after your first sentence, because that is the exact problem with the cameras in BlackBerry phones. Their cameras aren't good enough, the differences are perceptible, and it's more than sufficient justification to take one's money elsewhere. Keyboard or no keyboard.

Your opinion. No one I know pays attention to the differences between cameras on phones. I find it ironic that you care more about photos than reading. "TL;DR" tells me what I need to know about your priorities.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10562251)]

No one I know pays attention to the differences between cameras on phones.

No one you know? Well that must be it then.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Chuck Finley69]

No one you know? Well that must be it then.

Thanks for the laugh.

Count me as one more. For what I use the camera for I've always found each device sufficient, BB or not. I've always had low expectations for cameras on phones.

That being said, my better half insisted on the Lumia 1520 when it came out for it's size and it happened to have some awesome camera for it's time. She carried that phone like four years until she needed a modern ecosystem. Sound familiar? Anyways, she bought Allura by Alcatel for like $59USD as pre-paid and swapped her regular AT&T SIM card in. At our daughters' volleyball tournaments and school ceremonies, I asked her about the cheap difference. Not enough for the extra cost and that was it. Later for my daughter's middle school graduation etc, I got the wife an 8Plus BOGO with 8 for the kid.... Again, none of them could see any difference. Volleyball club photographer laughed about this kind of conversation with all the parents asking how come his photos are better than any of the ones anyone takes. He explained... simple all of you are using phones with a camera feature. He's using actual camera.

If there wasn't a real difference with camera phones and real cameras, good real cameras wouldn't exist anymore. Likewise, there's a difference in phone camera quality, you're really arguing who's tallest midget in the police lineup....

[RegN]

This^^^^

I have found with each phone I have gotten a bit better camera. Never been the reason to purchase said device. We have 4 pixel 3 phones in the family and a pixel 2. Wife has a motoz3 and I have Blackberry KEY² when we have get togethers and take some pictures we all have pictures of the event. A memory to look at. None will be on cover of a magazine or make us millions on YouTube. In the end they get uploaded to Google or put on a disk somewhere to look at some day. So put me down on this list of camera is no big deal.

Blackberry KEY² Silver Edition
Reg

[anon(10562251)]

Count me as one more. For what I use the camera for I've always found each device sufficient, BB or not. I've always had low expectations for cameras on phones.

That being said, my better half insisted on the Lumia 1520 when it came out for it's size and it happened to have some awesome camera for it's time. She carried that phone like four years until she needed a modern ecosystem. Sound familiar? Anyways, she bought Allura by Alcatel for like $59USD as pre-paid and swapped her regular AT&T SIM card in. At our daughters' volleyball tournaments and school ceremonies, I asked her about the cheap difference. Not enough for the extra cost and that was it. Later for my daughter's middle school graduation etc, I got the wife an 8Plus BOGO with 8 for the kid.... Again, none of them could see any difference. Volleyball club photographer laughed about this kind of conversation with all the parents asking how come his photos are better than any of the ones anyone takes. He explained... simple all of you are using phones with a camera feature. He's using actual camera.

If there wasn't a real difference with camera phones and real cameras, good real cameras wouldn't exist anymore. Likewise, there's a difference in phone camera quality, you're really arguing who's tallest midget in the police lineup....

Says the man who dual carries an iPhone.

You guys are hilarious!

[Chuck Finley69]

Says the man who dual carries an iPhone.

You guys are hilarious!

Not for the camera. In all fairness, I'll use whatever camera is on whatever line. I dual carry for two separate businesses. Each camera is equal to me for my uses. Even the AT&T prepaid hardware cameras are good enough for me. I'm not a photographer needing a professional camera. Pictures of IDs, contracts, agreements or performance illustrations are fine either way as I scan into JPG or PDF files.

[anon(10562251)]

Not for the camera. In all fairness, I'll use whatever camera is on whatever line. I dual carry for two separate businesses. Each camera is equal to me for my uses. Even the AT&T prepaid hardware cameras are good enough for me. I'm not a photographer needing a professional camera. Pictures of IDs, contracts, agreements or performance illustrations are fine either way as I scan into JPG or PDF files.

So you are trying to tell me, in all honesty, that you can't tell the difference between your brand new iPhone's camera, and the one in your KeyONE?

It really pains me to say this, but most kids in kindergarten could tell the difference. And I mean that literally.

I truly hope TCL doesn't take what they read here too seriously. Perhaps they will start to believe their customers are visually (and mentally) impaired.

[Chuck Finley69]

So you are trying to tell me, in all honesty, that you can't tell the difference between your brand new iPhone's camera, and the one in your KeyONE?

It really pains me to say this, but most kids in kindergarten could tell the difference. And I mean that literally.

I truly hope TCL doesn't take what they read here too seriously. Perhaps they will start to believe their customers are visually (and mentally) impaired.

It’s probably since I’ve only got the iPhone XR and it’s considered the low end. What can I say? With and without glasses, both look fine to me. Mind you, it’s a KEYone and XR that I dual carry and compare. I wouldn’t expect KEYone and XR to be close either but again, they’re both just camera phones, no professional expectations from me.

[attaturk]

Lol, the "few" you named are the leaders in smartphone camera.

If you expect a mid range device from TCL to compete with flagships from Huawei, Samsung or Apple in term of camera, be prepared to be disappointed.


Posted via CB10

Mid-range? What have you been smoking dude? Do you recall the price of BlackBerry KEY² at launch? It was right up there with all top of the line manufacturers.

KEY² LE price point is mid range and I would accept the trash cameras they have put on.

This is precisely the reason why BlackBerry is unwilling to address the issue when it comes to their camera software because people accept it as 'good enough.' No, it's not good enough for the price TCL wants for a KEY².

[Chuck Finley69]

Mid-range? What have you been smoking dude? Do you recall the price of BlackBerry KEY² at launch? It was right up there with all top of the line manufacturers.

KEY² LE price point is mid range and I would accept the trash cameras they have put on.

This is precisely the reason why BlackBerry is unwilling to address the issue when it comes to their camera software because people accept it as 'good enough.' No, it's not good enough for the price TCL wants for a KEY².

I’m not sure where you’re at but here in USA, Key2 was $649 and XR $749 with Android flagship V35 ThinQ @$849 and V40 ThinQ @ $949 USD all quoted. All the devices except Key2 were AT&T corporate store. Other Android Flagships or IPhone flagship models cost even more...

[RegN]

You get what you pay for. I still think the cost to build Blackberry KEY² or one is much higher then slabs. There is some serious actual parts in a keyboard that have to be translated into actions. There is same software in all phones but now add an actual keyboard. This screen is still touch just like slabs. You pay for fancy camera or you pay for fancy keyboard. Or if they had both I'm thinking then you pay more like buying a pixel.

Blackberry KEY² Silver Edition
Reg

[bb10adopter111]

So you are trying to tell me, in all honesty, that you can't tell the difference between your brand new iPhone's camera, and the one in your KeyONE?

It really pains me to say this, but most kids in kindergarten could tell the difference. And I mean that literally.

I truly hope TCL doesn't take what they read here too seriously. Perhaps they will start to believe their customers are visually (and mentally) impaired.

I think you may be sticking your thumb in front of the lens of your BlackBerry! Try holding the phone by the edges!

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10562251)]

I think you may be sticking your thumb in front of the lens of your BlackBerry! Try holding the phone by the edges!

Posted with my trusty Z10

You can only convince people they are "holding the phone wrong" for so long.

Eventually, they realize they are "holding the wrong phone".

[bb10adopter111]

You can only convince people they are "holding the phone wrong" for so long.

Eventually, they realize they are "holding the wrong phone".

I don't doubt that some people, like you, really and truly perceive a difference and care about it. And I'm glad that some manufacturers make phone cameras that you appreciate and value. But, in my circle of friends and colleagues, casual snapshots really are not a priority when selecting a phone. It's not like they are being printed, displayed on large screens, or used for marketing purposes. They're being displayed almost exclusively on small, mobile screens in an almost disposable way.

I have quite a few friends who are small business owners and people using Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter and Facebook for marketing purposes. They generally use a DSLR with WiFi connectivity for the photos they post.

[Michael_Stewart]

Your opinion. No one I know pays attention to the differences between cameras on phones. I find it ironic that you care more about photos than reading. "TL;DR" tells me what I need to know about your priorities.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Smartphone repair technician here, BlackBerry owner, I've never had an iPhone Samsung S-series or Note, and I can tell you, there is a HUGE difference between Key2 and Note 8, and noone comes in to get a BlackBerry smartphone fixed because their cameras SUCK. When I followed my favorite band on tour and saw 19 shows this year the camera footage on my Passport SE SUCKS. When my friend recorded a show with his iPhone X everything looked AWESOME. I'm a physical keyboard holdout but dammit if I'm not seriously considering this Cosmo Communicator. Look what happens when you ignore what your core audience wants BlackBerry Mobile, now you have some serious competition and if you're going to be releasing PKB smartphones sans capacitive keyboard like the Key2 LE, guys like me are going to weigh in on the available options and go for whatever gives us stereo (instead of mono) speakers, 6" screen, Android P SailFish OS and Linux, 24MP camera, and I definitely type faster with two hands than two thumbs even WITH that awesome-awesome swipe-to-complete that I'm so used to with my Passport SE.

Just the facts, BlackBerry Mobile! No hard feelings but all these recent posts shilling for people to go out and buy a Key2 or else we won't see a Key3, screw you, I'm not paying $650 for that camera not in no way José.