[S2G-Unit]

To me the price isn't the issue when the product doesn't have shortcomings. The shortcomings make people question the price. It makes the product an easy target. Eliminate the obvious bulls-eyes, so the product can better justify the price.

I agree, we don't expect a perfect phone. It would never exist but I think we are reasonable in expecting a better screen or speakers or camera at this expensive price. Maybe not all 3 features being upgrade and better but at least 2 out of the 3. How expensive could better speakers have been really? TCL is not a new small startup company. They have been making phones for a while.

[iHadLastBB]

Not everyone can afford to pay $800-$900 for a dream-spec KEY² Plus.

BBMo has the demand curve results, so only they can properly evaluate what future price points are optimal for them.

Bull****.

Samsung S9 - 670 bucks
https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=sfoVQSwZ

BlackBerry KEY2 - 650 bucks
https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=FNNKeTil

How relevant is the price compare to the hardware?

I understand it would be nice if people just give me all the money just for beautiful eyes, but God damn. This is outrageous.

How stupid BBMo think we are?

Sooo stupid?

Do they think we are so old-school we don't know how to use Google and compare?

They overpriced KEY2 so much themselves don't know what to do next. They are so stubborn they can't admit the greed and just reduce the price so they created LE without capacitive keys to justify it.. 200 bucks for capacitive Facepalm.

KEY2 and LE max price is half what they are charging. I get the 5year old idea, if we sell at least half of it we get same revenue by charging double, but the irony it's a real life and not many are so stupid to fall for this, people finds workarounds.

BBMo do you sell at least 1/5 you expected? If you started to offer a real price like you used to, you would sell tons of it, but you just keep shooting to your legs.

Your devices are for business? You're doing business? No deal for this garbage, cut the price by half NOW and make some money to create a device that really worth to spend 650 bucks or more!
#nowwetalkbusiness

[conite]

Bull****.

Samsung S9 - 670 bucks


BlackBerry KEY2 - 650 bucks

cut the price by half NOW and make some money to create a device that really worth to spend 650 bucks or more.

Samsung sells 10s of millions of phones. My gosh, I don't know how to explain economies of scale to you any more clearly than I have.

You're also missing the point that value is in the eye of the beholder. I would still buy a KEY² even if the S9 was $200 - it works better for ME.

Almost 2 years into the licencing deal and they are probably (and expectedly) still in the red. Your pricing "structure" suggestion is astonishing.

If you want the next KEY device to have a better spec variant, you'll have to pay for it. For the 10th time, you'd have to ask BBMo for their demand curve analysis derived from the KEY² and KEY² LE launches.

[nucks26]

Curious for the people who carry one (1) phone daily, and came from a Flagship phone (iPhone, Samsung S or Note, OnePlus), who is still using the KEY2, and what Country are you in.

I loved my KEY2, but the inconsistent Photo Quality left me in a bad position, as I need quality photos for my job. So I moved on in August. I have since heard the software updates have improved the camera, and amazingly enough even helped extend battery life further.

I read about people carrying two phones. To me, that is rubbish, as I can't carry two phones. I would prefer carrying a RX100 point and shoot vs carrying a phone for just photos.

Thanks!!

JOHN
USA

For me it was definitely the lacklustre camera and the screen aspect ratio. I’m confident enough on a virtual keyboard to not need a physical one anymore, although I’d still like to have it for lengthier emails. My favourite design is still a priv slider.

[naijab0y]

Samsung sells 10s of millions of phones. My gosh, I don't know how to explain economies of scale to you any more clearly than I have.

You're also missing the point that value is in the eye of the beholder. I would still buy a KEY² even if the S9 was $200 - it works better for ME.

Almost 2 years into the licencing deal and they are probably (and expectedly) still in the red. Your pricing "structure" suggestion is astonishing.

If you want the next KEY device to have a better spec variant, you'll have to pay for it. For the 10th time, you'd have to ask BBMo for their demand curve analysis derived from the KEY² and KEY² LE launches.

This guy is the perfect BlackBerry customer. Justify being ripped off by inventing all sorts of reasons and use terms like "economies of scale" so u sound intelligent and people think you know what you're on about.

To think that the Passport with its superior quality was £450 and the Key² was £579.. yet you justify it.

I feel sorry for u tbh. One day you will wake up and wonder what the hell u were thinking. Doesn't sound like I know much about business. This is exactly what Apple does to its customers and BlackBerry/TCL are trying to emulate that.

Good luck with that.

[the_boon]

This guy is the perfect BlackBerry customer. Justify being ripped off by inventing all sorts of reasons and use terms like "economies of scale" so u sound intelligent and people think you know what you're on about.

To think that the Passport with its superior quality was £450 and the Key² was £579.. yet you justify it.

I feel sorry for u tbh. One day you will wake up and wonder what the hell u were thinking. Doesn't sound like I know much about business. This is exactly what Apple does to its customers and BlackBerry/TCL are trying to emulate that.

Good luck with that.

I feel more let-down by all the other OEM's for having killed off the PKB more than I feel let-down by BBMo's "mediocre" hardware.

Am I the perfect BBsheep for that ?

Idk, you tell me

[conite]

This guy is the perfect BlackBerry customer. Justify being ripped off by inventing all sorts of reasons and use terms like "economies of scale" so u sound intelligent and people think you know what you're on about.

To think that the Passport with its superior quality was £450 and the Key² was £579.. yet you justify it.

I feel sorry for u tbh. One day you will wake up and wonder what the hell u were thinking. Doesn't sound like I know much about business. This is exactly what Apple does to its customers and BlackBerry/TCL are trying to emulate that.

Good luck with that.

[The_Passporter]

This guy is the perfect BlackBerry customer. Justify being ripped off by inventing all sorts of reasons and use terms like "economies of scale" so u sound intelligent and people think you know what you're on about.

To think that the Passport with its superior quality was £450 and the Key² was £579.. yet you justify it.

I feel sorry for u tbh. One day you will wake up and wonder what the hell u were thinking. Doesn't sound like I know much about business. This is exactly what Apple does to its customers and BlackBerry/TCL are trying to emulate that.

Good luck with that.

I initially thought other than the OS, not much would change as Hardware goes or with BlackBerry continuing software development for Android. Unfortunately when BlackBerry let go of all the engineers and designers upon exiting the hardware arena they let go a part of what made them BlackBerry. Now even with patent licensing TCL is like BlackBerry starting all over again and I find the KEY2 to be a real let down.

I fear the end is near, I'm no poet and I know it!

[iHadLastBB]

This guy is the perfect BlackBerry customer. Justify being ripped off by inventing all sorts of reasons and use terms like "economies of scale" so u sound intelligent and people think you know what you're on about.

To think that the Passport with its superior quality was £450 and the Key² was £579.. yet you justify it.

I feel sorry for u tbh. One day you will wake up and wonder what the hell u were thinking. Doesn't sound like I know much about business. This is exactly what Apple does to its customers and BlackBerry/TCL are trying to emulate that.

Good luck with that.

BRAVO 🍻

[iHadLastBB]

I initially thought other than the OS, not much would change as Hardware goes or with BlackBerry continuing software development for Android. Unfortunately when BlackBerry let go of all the engineers and designers upon exiting the hardware arena they let go a part of what made them BlackBerry. Now even with patent licensing TCL is like BlackBerry starting all over again and I find the KEY2 to be a real let down.

I fear the end is near, I'm no poet and I know it!

Since BBMo doesn't want to be successful and sell tons of real gadgets just few shameful toys, the end of BBMo will be the same day Huawei or other high-end device manufacturer offer us a PKB, I guarantee it.

[conite]

the end of BBMo will be the same day Huawei or other high-end device manufacturer offer us a PKB, I guarantee it.

That day will never happen. The market isn't big enough for two (we don't even know if it's big enough for one), and BBMo has use of all of the keyboard patents.

[conite]

BRAVO

Yes, all those crazy "words" like ROI, economies of scale, red, black, margins, profits, overhead, demand curves, etc. Shameful.

[the_boon]

That day will never happen. The market isn't big enough for two (we don't even know if it's big enough for one), and BBMo has use of all of the keyboard patents.

The OEM's all sold out to the trends of big bezel less displays and slapping as many cameras lenses as possible on a phone, and making a phone as fragile as possible and removing as many ports/features as Apple deems it "cool" to do so.

So no, I'm not hopeful that ANY other OEM will even invest a small portion into a mid range PKB device, they're too busy copying Apple.

[iHadLastBB]

The OEM's all sold out to the trends of big bezel less displays and slapping as many cameras lenses as possible on a phone, and making a phone as fragile as possible and removing as many ports/features as Apple deems it "cool" to do so.

So no, I'm not hopeful that ANY other OEM will even invest a small portion into a mid range PKB device, they're too busy copying Apple.

I think it will be much easier to ask Huawei to make us one ultimate PKB device

[iHadLastBB]

That day will never happen. The market isn't big enough for two (we don't even know if it's big enough for one), and BBMo has use of all of the keyboard patents.

My only wish is BBMo to wake and start to make real gadgets to sell tons of it.

Honor, Oneplus, Pocophone is just few examples from nothing to something you can take market share in a year ONLY by offering high-end for low price not midrange for high price.

Please tell me at least one example of any midrange high price slab who has huge interest?

[the_boon]

Please tell me at least one example of any midrange high price slab who has huge interest?

Well, its a slab, so people will only look at internal specs just like they usually do, in this slabturated era.

[bb10adopter111]

Reality check: The KEY2 IS BlackBerry Mobile's flagship device. So the title of this thread should be "KEY2 vs. The Other Flagships."

1) It's a lot less expensive
2) Its cameras are worse
3) its security and privacy for consumers are better, though Apple and Samsung are very secure in an Enterprise context
4) It has a PKB with up to 52 shortcuts
5) It's unrootable
6) It has DTEK
7) It has a completely different design aesthetic.
8) It has a smaller screen with a 3:2 aspect ratio
9) It has a slower SoC.

For me, the KEY2 is a much better phone than the other flagships, because it's priorities match my own. If you offered me any phone currently manufactured for free, and told Mr 8 had to use it for three years, I would choose the KEY2 without hesitation.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[conite]

My only wish is BBMo to wake and start to make real gadgets to sell tons of it.

Honor, Oneplus, Pocophone is just few examples from nothing to something you can take market share in a year ONLY by offering high-end for low price not midrange for high price.

Please tell me at least one example of any midrange high price slab who has huge interest?

Huawei and Xiaomi are examples of coming from nothing?

Bottom line, they are at the price point they need to be in order to (hopefully one day) achieve a reasonable ROI for their investors. If they can't produce something at that price point that you find valuable, then don't buy it. There's nothing else to say.

[Bbnivende]

Reality check: The KEY2 IS BlackBerry Mobile's flagship device. So the title of this thread should be "KEY2 vs. The Other Flagships."

1) It's a lot less expensive
2) Its cameras are worse
3) its security and privacy for consumers are better, though Apple and Samsung are very secure in an Enterprise context
4) It has a PKB with up to 52 shortcuts
5) It's unrootable
6) It has DTEK
7) It has a completely different design aesthetic.
8) It has a smaller screen with a 3:2 aspect ratio
9) It has a slower SoC.

For me, the KEY2 is a much better phone than the other flagships, because it's priorities match my own. If you offered me any phone currently manufactured for free, and told Mr 8 had to use it for three years, I would choose the KEY2 without hesitation.

Posted with my trusty Z10

I thought you were not buying any more phones because there are no phones that can replace your Z10.

“A flagship is a vessel used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships, characteristically a flag officer entitled by custom to fly a distinguishing flag. Used more loosely, it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, typically the first, largest, fastest, most heavily armed, or best known. “

The Key2 is TCL’s best phone but that does not make it a flagship. TCL makes low end phones and BlackBerry is their premium line. Their Premium line is mid range compared to other OEM’s .

To talk about ranges is not really helpful anyway . They are selling a PKB phone. I am sure they might sell more phones at a lower price point but either you need a PKB or you don’t .

TCL needs to rethink their strategy. They need a mid range all touch and it appears that the market does not value the BlackBerry branding and software even if TCL sold these features at cost.

[conite]

TCL needs to rethink their strategy. They need a mid range all touch and it appears that the market does not value the BlackBerry branding and software even if TCL sold these features at cost.

Why?

Let Alcatel handle slabs, and BBMo handle pkbs. If either or both can't find a sufficiently sized market, then so be it.

The business cases for the two types of devices are totally different.

You said it yourself, there is not enough to differentiate a BBMo slab to warrant the premium price - and there never could be.

[the_boon]

but either you need a PKB or you don’t

Why do I always hear "need a PKB"
How about just "want a PKB" ?

They need a mid range all touch

But no one cares about SlabBerrys !

[Bbnivende]

Why?

Let Alcatel handle slabs, and BBMo handle pkbs. If either or both can't find a sufficiently sized market, then so be it.

The business cases for the two types of devices are totally different.

You said it yourself, there is not enough to differentiate a BBMo slab to warrant the premium price - and there never could be.

Yes I agree. I would not even use the Alcatel nameplate . They should use TCL with a plain vanilla OS. If getting a BlackBerry Secure root of trust is cheap enough get that .

[conite]

Yes I agree. I would not even use the Alcatel nameplate . They should use TCL with a plain vanilla OS. If getting a BlackBerry Secure root of trust is cheap enough get that .

Then it's not Vanilla anymore - leading to heavier update lifting. Low to mid slab users wouldn't pay for it anyway.

[bb10adopter111]

I thought you were not buying any more phones because there are no phones that can replace your Z10.

“A flagship is a vessel used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships, characteristically a flag officer entitled by custom to fly a distinguishing flag. Used more loosely, it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, typically the first, largest, fastest, most heavily armed, or best known. “

The Key2 is TCL’s best phone but that does not make it a flagship. TCL makes low end phones and BlackBerry is their premium line. Their Premium line is mid range compared to other OEM’s .

To talk about ranges is not really helpful anyway . They are selling a PKB phone. I am sure they might sell more phones at a lower price point but either you need a PKB or you don’t .

TCL needs to rethink their strategy. They need a mid range all touch and it appears that the market does not value the BlackBerry branding and software even if TCL sold these features at cost.

The "flagship" is the top ship in a fleet, the one that carries the Admiral's flag. Big navies have bigger, more powerful flagships, but every fleet has one. The KEY2 is definitely BlackBerry Mobile's.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Bbnivende]

The "flagship" is the top ship in a fleet, the one that carries the Admiral's flag. Big navies have bigger, more powerful flagships, but every fleet has one. The KEY2 is definitely BlackBerry Mobile's.

Posted with my trusty Z10

You win. I found a review that named the Key2 as “BlackBerry’s Flagship” . Mind you the review goes on to state that the Key2 “fails to rival the premium tier flagship smartphones with it must compete simply due price alone “.

The same source said if the LE - Mid-range quality, mid-range performance, but a mid-range price”

Bbadopter, I hope you give the LE a try. I think it is a better PKB phone than your KEYone.