1. Howdizzle's Avatar
    Just when you think things are going the right way, JC signing the licensing deal with TCL and focusing on software, you would think with the economies of scale TCL has, this phone could have been priced a lot more attractive...say along the lines of XiaoMi products. I don't understand why this company makes repeated mistakes, and with the power of hindsight lets look at the mistakes it made.

    BBQ10 - Running on BB OS with no apps, should have adopted Android at this point
    BB Classic - recycling Q10 hardware on a new body- nicely built but again all over the place with ATT wireless charging models and BBOS...a flop on a solid device
    BB Passport - cool looking phone for some but once touted by doctors to use for reading x-rays and for spreadsheet lovers to have wider screens...no one leveraged these selling features to make it a real win.
    Priv- fully android, plagued with speed issues
    Keyone- seeing a glimmer of hope, missing wireless charging, keyboard a bit off, capactive buttons too close to keyboard
    Keytwo - fixed the keyboard, still no wireless charging, decide to up the price by 150 usd to take more money out of a limited consumer base. There are no users of blackberries with the exception of enthusiasts...now we are getting gouged for a QC SoC 660?

    Yes the power of hindsight is awesome but seriously, have they ever pleasantly surprised their loyal fan base or the general public perception for that matter? What's the justification for the price hike? don't tell me cost of goods has risen. other manufacturers parallel to TCL could make this phone competitively priced. BB is being greedy here or producing in quantities that are not cost efficient. Its really pissing me off.
    Qorax, HostessCupcake and Wmsi like this.
    06-12-18 03:33 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Just when you think things are going the right way, JC signing the licensing deal with TCL and focusing on software, you would think with the economies of scale TCL has, this phone could have been priced a lot more attractive...say along the lines of XiaoMi products. I don't understand why this company makes repeated mistakes, and with the power of hindsight lets look at the mistakes it made.

    BBQ10 - Running on BB OS with no apps, should have adopted Android at this point
    BB Classic - recycling Q10 hardware on a new body- nicely built but again all over the place with ATT wireless charging models and BBOS...a flop on a solid device
    BB Passport - cool looking phone for some but once touted by doctors to use for reading x-rays and for spreadsheet lovers to have wider screens...no one leveraged these selling features to make it a real win.
    Priv- fully android, plagued with speed issues
    Keyone- seeing a glimmer of hope, missing wireless charging, keyboard a bit off, capactive buttons too close to keyboard
    Keytwo - fixed the keyboard, still no wireless charging, decide to up the price by 150 usd to take more money out of a limited consumer base. There are no users of blackberries with the exception of enthusiasts...now we are getting gouged for a QC SoC 660?

    Yes the power of hindsight is awesome but seriously, have they ever pleasantly surprised their loyal fan base or the general public perception for that matter? What's the justification for the price hike? don't tell me cost of goods has risen. other manufacturers parallel to TCL could make this phone competitively priced. BB is being greedy here or producing in quantities that are not cost efficient. Its really pissing me off.
    If only you were the head of BlackBerry Mobile, all would be well.

    What other devices in the TCL lineup have 3:2 screens, 660 SoCs, dual Samsung sensors, and physical keyboards, in order to leverage "economies of scale"?

    The fact of the matter is that BlackBerry Mobile has a market of about 1-2 million devices a year. That's what it costs.
    06-12-18 03:40 PM
  3. vladi's Avatar
    Just wait for 6 months or so and price will come down drastically. They are counting to make money on first adopters like every other phone manufacturer. Phone craze is still alive and well and every brand wants to sell you the phone for as much as they can in first 90 days or so
    DWonder and rarsen like this.
    06-12-18 04:07 PM
  4. danfrancisco's Avatar
    have they ever pleasantly surprised their loyal fan base or the general public perception for that matter?
    Yes: I am still buying NEW BlackBerry devices in 2018.
    rarsen and TCM01 like this.
    06-12-18 04:17 PM
  5. Howdizzle's Avatar
    If only you were the head of BlackBerry Mobile, all would be well.

    What other devices in the TCL lineup have 3:2 screens, 660 SoCs, dual Samsung sensors, and physical keyboards, in order to leverage "economies of scale"?

    The fact of the matter is that BlackBerry Mobile has a market of about 1-2 million devices a year. That's what it costs.
    fair point, i'm not the CEO and nor do i have a complete information set to substantiate my claims. One thing is for sure...i can express my frustration with the pricing and i think this resonates well with the other observations across the internet i'm reading. Maybe it does cost more to produce this device given its niche characteristics but it doesn't mean i'm salivating and ready to throw my money down to get it. There's a breaking point to everything from a pricing perspective. The value proposition is not here and given its history of blunders (again through the power of hindsight) i can't help but be disappointed.
    Qorax and HostessCupcake like this.
    06-12-18 04:20 PM
  6. SunnyD3687's Avatar
    Just when you think things are going the right way, JC signing the licensing deal with TCL and focusing on software, you would think with the economies of scale TCL has, this phone could have been priced a lot more attractive...say along the lines of XiaoMi products. I don't understand why this company makes repeated mistakes, and with the power of hindsight lets look at the mistakes it made.

    BBQ10 - Running on BB OS with no apps, should have adopted Android at this point
    BB Classic - recycling Q10 hardware on a new body- nicely built but again all over the place with ATT wireless charging models and BBOS...a flop on a solid device
    BB Passport - cool looking phone for some but once touted by doctors to use for reading x-rays and for spreadsheet lovers to have wider screens...no one leveraged these selling features to make it a real win.
    Priv- fully android, plagued with speed issues
    Keyone- seeing a glimmer of hope, missing wireless charging, keyboard a bit off, capactive buttons too close to keyboard
    Keytwo - fixed the keyboard, still no wireless charging, decide to up the price by 150 usd to take more money out of a limited consumer base. There are no users of blackberries with the exception of enthusiasts...now we are getting gouged for a QC SoC 660?

    Yes the power of hindsight is awesome but seriously, have they ever pleasantly surprised their loyal fan base or the general public perception for that matter? What's the justification for the price hike? don't tell me cost of goods has risen. other manufacturers parallel to TCL could make this phone competitively priced. BB is being greedy here or producing in quantities that are not cost efficient. Its really pissing me off.
    What a nonsensical post lol..thats the only effort I'm putting towards your post cause I've already given too much effort
    TCM01 likes this.
    06-12-18 04:22 PM
  7. SunnyD3687's Avatar
    Just when you think things are going the right way, JC signing the licensing deal with TCL and focusing on software, you would think with the economies of scale TCL has, this phone could have been priced a lot more attractive...say along the lines of XiaoMi products. I don't understand why this company makes repeated mistakes, and with the power of hindsight lets look at the mistakes it made.

    BBQ10 - Running on BB OS with no apps, should have adopted Android at this point
    BB Classic - recycling Q10 hardware on a new body- nicely built but again all over the place with ATT wireless charging models and BBOS...a flop on a solid device
    BB Passport - cool looking phone for some but once touted by doctors to use for reading x-rays and for spreadsheet lovers to have wider screens...no one leveraged these selling features to make it a real win.
    Priv- fully android, plagued with speed issues
    Keyone- seeing a glimmer of hope, missing wireless charging, keyboard a bit off, capactive buttons too close to keyboard
    Keytwo - fixed the keyboard, still no wireless charging, decide to up the price by 150 usd to take more money out of a limited consumer base. There are no users of blackberries with the exception of enthusiasts...now we are getting gouged for a QC SoC 660?

    Yes the power of hindsight is awesome but seriously, have they ever pleasantly surprised their loyal fan base or the general public perception for that matter? What's the justification for the price hike? don't tell me cost of goods has risen. other manufacturers parallel to TCL could make this phone competitively priced. BB is being greedy here or producing in quantities that are not cost efficient. Its really pissing me off.
    How are they being greedy? They have a niche phone..people will pay the launch price..and they will make a nice profit..thats called capitalism.. No one has a gun to your head saying buy the device.
    TCM01 likes this.
    06-12-18 04:24 PM
  8. Howdizzle's Avatar
    How are they being greedy? They have a niche phone..people will pay the launch price..and they will make a nice profit..thats called capitalism.. No one has a gun to your head saying buy the device.
    What a nonsensical post lol..thats the only effort I'm putting towards your post cause I've already given too much effort
    seems like i was able to illicit more effort out of you despite your comments. Glad you could engage in what i think is a healthy debate. The optionality i presented was that either they are being greedy by overshooting on their pricing model or, in fact, the cost of goods based on TCLs production setup for this phone is really that high. Absolutely there will be individuals throwing money at this phone @ launch. I'm expressing my frustration because i've been at the front of the line each time the bold 9000, bold 9900, q10, classic, and keyone releases...every single time they've failed to deliver something complete. I've gone along for this ride and at this point, i'm calling out the point that the pricing is unreasonable from my perspective. You may feel the pricing is reasonable and thus ok to spend 650 on it. I'm sure there are others on this forum that share my opinion that 650 price point is a touch rich for this product.
    Qorax and HostessCupcake like this.
    06-12-18 04:29 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    fair point, i'm not the CEO and nor do i have a complete information set to substantiate my claims. One thing is for sure...i can express my frustration with the pricing and i think this resonates well with the other observations across the internet i'm reading. Maybe it does cost more to produce this device given its niche characteristics but it doesn't mean i'm salivating and ready to throw my money down to get it. There's a breaking point to everything from a pricing perspective. The value proposition is not here and given its history of blunders (again through the power of hindsight) i can't help but be disappointed.
    If you think it's priced beyond your means, then consider the KEYᵒⁿᵉ or the (perhaps) planned KEY² Lite.

    Based on my personal preference, I would take the KEY² over an iPhone X with a $300 discount (to make the price comparable). Value is in the eye of the beholder.
    06-12-18 04:33 PM
  10. hplovecraft's Avatar
    The Key2 is the ONLY pkb device with a modern chip running Android on the market. In my opinion it has a vast improvement in design (PP SE) and internal settings.

    Paying 649€/$ is - in economical sense - a fair price.

    If you don't want this ONLY modern PKB device because of wireless charging (OK)..
    Dont get it.
    SunnyD3687 and FinnBerry like this.
    06-12-18 04:36 PM
  11. Nguyen1's Avatar
    Most new Blackberry devices are expensive, nothing new there. They are niche enterprise devices, not consumer devices.
    $650 is pricey, but if you're still interested in it, just shop around ebay in the next few months and you'll surely see it in the sub-$500 range soon enough. That's what I would do.

    Disclaimer: I still use a Curve 9300 and sometimes a Pre3, so my opinion is not mainstream.
    SunnyD3687 and supertom like this.
    06-12-18 04:41 PM
  12. hplovecraft's Avatar
    Based on my personal preference, I would take the KEY² over an iPhone X with a $300 discount (to make the price comparable). Value is in the eye of the beholder.
    I agree with the iPhone comment. In my opinion people don't appreciate that it is much easier these days to make another all-glass slab, than a pkb device.

    People forget that it is very very hard to compare a niche pkb device like the Key2 to any Huawei etc. products. And when I talk niche it actually means the ONLY manufacturer of that niche market

    Question is: how does one define a "fair price"
    06-12-18 04:44 PM
  13. Howdizzle's Avatar
    The Key2 is the ONLY pkb device with a modern chip running Android on the market. In my opinion it has a vast improvement in design (PP SE) and internal settings.

    Paying 649€/$ is - in economical sense - a fair price.

    If you don't want this ONLY modern PKB device because of wireless charging (OK)..
    Dont get it.
    i will not be the judge of $650 being a fair price. The market will be the judge of this in due course. What i am saying is, in my humble opinion, $650 is too much for what i'm getting given the pricing of the keyone. The value of a dollar is different for everyone. People give money away being generous on gratuities, overpay for diamonds, overpay for plane tickets etc etc. As one of the posters above put it best, value is in the eye of the beholder. I'm glad im getting pushback from my post/rant, it was designed to illicit healthy debate. You can't say im not a supporter since i've purchased most of their key releases to date...as a an existing customer and prospective buyer for the key2, i am entitled to voice my opinion about the pricing of their most recent product...unless y'all are telling me its not welcome on this forum or that this forum does not accept challenge to Blackberry's pricing model.
    06-12-18 04:45 PM
  14. SunnyD3687's Avatar
    seems like i was able to illicit more effort out of you despite your comments. Glad you could engage in what i think is a healthy debate. The optionality i presented was that either they are being greedy by overshooting on their pricing model or, in fact, the cost of goods based on TCLs production setup for this phone is really that high. Absolutely there will be individuals throwing money at this phone @ launch. I'm expressing my frustration because i've been at the front of the line each time the bold 9000, bold 9900, q10, classic, and keyone releases...every single time they've failed to deliver something complete. I've gone along for this ride and at this point, i'm calling out the point that the pricing is unreasonable from my perspective. You may feel the pricing is reasonable and thus ok to spend 650 on it. I'm sure there are others on this forum that share my opinion that 650 price point is a touch rich for this product.
    So every single time you were at the front of the line ..every single time they let you down..and every single time YOU kept making the decision to give them more of your money...you should be frustrated with yourself and your inability STOP slamming into the same brick wall over and over..if you are so unhappy then don't buy their product..its that simple
    davidinLA, Fred Wu and gnirkatto like this.
    06-12-18 04:51 PM
  15. hplovecraft's Avatar
    i will not be the judge of $650 being a fair price. The market will be the judge of this in due course. What i am saying is, in my humble opinion, $650 is too much for what i'm getting given the pricing of the keyone. The value of a dollar is different for everyone. People give money away being generous on gratuities, overpay for diamonds, overpay for plane tickets etc etc. As one of the posters above put it best, value is in the eye of the beholder. I'm glad im getting pushback from my post/rant, it was designed to illicit healthy debate. You can't say im not a supporter since i've purchased most of their key releases to date...as a an existing customer and prospective buyer for the key2, i am entitled to voice my opinion about the pricing of their most recent product...unless y'all are telling me its not welcome on this forum or that this forum does not accept challenge to Blackberry's pricing model.
    As you said, the market will decide if it is a fair price.

    For me personally I am happy that I am at ALL able to buy a moder good looking pkb device. So my personal "fair price" might even be higher. Of course an open discussion about what you, or others, fell about TLC pricing is appreciated at crackberry. Don't feel judged or anything....

    I still am interested in the possibility of a smaller - classic like - device for less money. Let's see if it will emerge.
    06-12-18 04:52 PM
  16. Bodymaker's Avatar
    yep yep yep, they went bezerk with the price again. They made a lot of great improvements but only to keep up with the trend, nothing more. Its like a goalie in hockey did what they had to do but nothing on top. No wireless charging (useless in my opinion but the price indicates otherwise), single speaker, useless shortcut button (2click action vs 2click action with worse positioning, no added value) most probably worse battery life with the more powerful chip (my keyone needs charging every 2-3 days), not waterproff...I did buy keyone as new from my carrier but I will most probably not buy this one...or buy a broken one of off ebay for a buck and fix it. Oh, an I still am not sure if it even has the LED notification light, I have only heard of the currency key lighting up for notifications.
    Qorax likes this.
    06-12-18 05:03 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    As you said, the market will decide if it is a fair price.

    For me personally I am happy that I am at ALL able to buy a moder good looking pkb device. So my personal "fair price" might even be higher. Of course an open discussion about what you, or others, fell about TLC pricing is appreciated at crackberry. Don't feel judged or anything....

    I still am interested in the possibility of a smaller - classic like - device for less money. Let's see if it will emerge.
    i will not be the judge of $650 being a fair price. The market will be the judge of this in due course. What i am saying is, in my humble opinion, $650 is too much for what i'm getting given the pricing of the keyone. The value of a dollar is different for everyone. People give money away being generous on gratuities, overpay for diamonds, overpay for plane tickets etc etc. As one of the posters above put it best, value is in the eye of the beholder. I'm glad im getting pushback from my post/rant, it was designed to illicit healthy debate. You can't say im not a supporter since i've purchased most of their key releases to date...as a an existing customer and prospective buyer for the key2, i am entitled to voice my opinion about the pricing of their most recent product...unless y'all are telling me its not welcome on this forum or that this forum does not accept challenge to Blackberry's pricing model.
    It's not really a matter of the price being "fair". The price is what BBMo needs to keep the business viable, and I don't think they can move it much (apart from sales and enterprise discounts).

    What the market will decide is how much they value a physical keyboard on a fairly upscale device.
    SunnyD3687 and Fred Wu like this.
    06-12-18 05:08 PM
  18. Bodymaker's Avatar
    For me personally I am happy that I am at ALL able to buy a moder good looking pkb device. So my personal "fair price" might even be higher. Of course an open discussion about what you, or others, fell about TLC pricing is appreciated at crackberry. Don't feel judged or anything....
    I wouldnt be too sure about TLC, I bet its BB who sets the price, TLC is merely the manufacturer. RedBull also doesnt make any cans but its not the can factory that names the price.
    Qorax likes this.
    06-12-18 05:16 PM
  19. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I wouldnt be too sure about TLC, I bet its BB who sets the price, TLC is merely the manufacturer. RedBull also doesnt make any cans but its not the can factory that names the price.
    Don't go making too many bets. Aside from the OS, BlackBerry has little care for devices. They make their money off the already agreed upon licensing terms. They get their cash either way. TCL can charge as little or as much as they want, BlackBerry don't give a damn what it is.
    SunnyD3687 and HostessCupcake like this.
    06-12-18 05:26 PM
  20. hplovecraft's Avatar
    It's not really a matter of the price being "fair". The price is what BBMo needs to keep the business viable, and I don't think they can move it much (apart from sales and enterprise discounts).

    What the market will decide is how much they value a physical keyboard on a fairly upscale device.
    And BBMo will have analyzed - better than us both - what the market will see as a fair price. So they make a viable business.

    You understand what the expression "fair price" means?
    06-12-18 05:34 PM
  21. Bodymaker's Avatar
    Don't go making too many bets. Aside from the OS, BlackBerry has little care for devices. They make their money off the already agreed upon licensing terms. They get their cash either way. TCL can charge as little or as much as they want, BlackBerry don't give a damn what it is.
    I hope not, that would make blackberry officially dead and the phones should have a TLC logo on them. Yet still its BlackBerry who was introducing the phone and all its features. Are you sure its not like apple...designed in California, produced in China?
    06-12-18 05:34 PM
  22. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I hope not, that would make blackberry officially dead and the phones should have a TLC logo on them. Yet still its BlackBerry who was introducing the phone and all its features. Are you sure its not like apple...designed in California, produced in China?
    I have no idea where you're getting the impression it's BlackBerry doing the introducing. To say nothing about the fact that there's certainly more to BlackBerry than the smartphone manufacturing they handed off to TCL (and other licensees). Perhaps you should get yourself caught up on how the BlackBerry/BlackBerry Mobile relationship works. - https://crackberry.com/cleaning-conf...ckberry-mobile
    SunnyD3687 likes this.
    06-12-18 05:54 PM
  23. SunnyD3687's Avatar
    I have no idea where you're getting the impression it's BlackBerry doing the introducing. To say nothing about the fact that there's certainly more to BlackBerry than the smartphone manufacturing they handed off to TCL (and other licensees). Perhaps you should get yourself caught up on how the BlackBerry/BlackBerry Mobile relationship works. - https://crackberry.com/cleaning-conf...ckberry-mobile
    Mike drop......
    06-12-18 06:23 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    I hope not, that would make blackberry officially dead and the phones should have a TLC logo on them. Yet still its BlackBerry who was introducing the phone and all its features. Are you sure its not like apple...designed in California, produced in China?
    This is a TCL (BlackBerry Mobile) device. BlackBerry only receives a fee for the brand name and the software. That's it.

    Thurber was only at the KEY² launch to discuss the OS. Everyone else was BlackBerry Mobile.
    06-12-18 06:27 PM
  25. krazyatom's Avatar
    Even k2 is $1000, people will still buy it. It's a very unique device. You have to pay to play the game!
    06-12-18 06:28 PM
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