Built for Business - Learn more about BlackBerry KEY2
09-16-18 11:21 AM
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  1. Fred Wu's Avatar
    Doesn't matter.

    If one doesn't highly value a physical keyboard, there is no value play at all with a BBMo device.

    BBMo will try to convince new customers that a physical keyboard is highly desirable, but will NEVER win them over with price alone. Ever.
    Lots have said, price has never been an issue. What we want is a product, better than previous generations in every aspect on a phone designed and produced in 2018. But it is NOT the case now.

    A BlackBerry phone in 2018 still has a worse speaker, a worse quality software for camera, maybe hardware, worse call quality, a non-uniform quality of keyboard, and etc.

    You surely will argue it's TCL not BlackBerry making it. But who are designing KEY* phone now, if not from old BlackBerry team, now with TCL, then no one else has the experiences or desires to do that. Unless you are saying it's designed by their Chinese team.
    09-10-18 07:29 AM
  2. chain13's Avatar
    You don't need to know the details. You only need to understand that the KEYx phones are low-volume, specialized devices. That shouldn't be too complicated.
    That's the problem conite, define specialized. Even if they mentioned their targetted market (which they never did), in the end they sell it to folks. And folks don't need to know why this device should be cost at this price, BBTax, licensing fee, or how suffering they come to this. Slab a keyboard on doesn't simply make it a "specialized" where nothing special inside that we could't find on any other phones.
    09-10-18 07:31 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    That's the problem conite, define specialized. Even if they mentioned their targetted market (which they never did), in the end they sell it to folks. And folks don't need to know why this device should be cost at this price, BBTax, licensing fee, or how suffering they come to this. Slab a keyboard on doesn't simply make it a "specialized" where nothing special inside that we could't find on any other phones.
    Ask 100 random people to look at a KEY² and ask them if it's unique/specialised. My bet is that 100 would say yes.

    Then ask them the same question about a OnePlus 6.
    Mamaluka and the_boon like this.
    09-10-18 07:49 AM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Lots have said, price has never been an issue. What we want is a product, better than previous generations in every aspect on a phone designed and produced in 2018. But it is NOT the case now.
    That seems to be a meaningless objective to me.

    I prefer to look at it this way: give me a device at $649, don't compromise on the keyboard at all, and do the best you can with the other things. That's what they've done.

    One can argue they should have gone with a higher price point so as to improve on some other components, but that's another discussion.
    09-10-18 07:55 AM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It's not meant to be. My point is that the general consumer doesn't need to know all of the complicated details of the arrangement - just the uncomplicated fact that it's a unique, low-volume product.
    The general consumer needs to be persuaded that the phone will meet their needs and offers a good value for money spent.

    My opinion is the Key2 needed a Passport quality screen at that price point.
    09-10-18 08:01 AM
  6. conite's Avatar

    My opinion is the Key2 needed a Passport quality screen at that price point.
    Screens are comparable in my opinion.

    KEYs have 434 ppi IPS LCD screen, and Passport has 453 ppi IPS LCD screen. Small difference is simply a mathematical function of the screen ratio.

    KEYs have a maximum brightness of 665 nits, and a contrast ratio of 1:2241. Passport is 894, and 1:1161 respectively. All are in the "excellent" range according to testing labs - except for Passport contrast which is "good".
    Last edited by conite; 09-10-18 at 08:45 AM.
    09-10-18 08:06 AM
  7. Fred Wu's Avatar
    That seems to be a meaningless objective to me.

    I prefer to look at it this way: give me a device at $649, don't compromise on the keyboard at all, and do the best you can with the other things. That's what they've done.

    One can argue they should have gone with a higher price point so as to improve on some other components, but that's another discussion.
    That's funny. It's a keyboard, what could be compromised? Even it kept the KEY1 design, but improved everything else, I am sure it would be a good sale too. Why every generation needs to look new but degraded and compromised even for old good ones?
    09-10-18 08:06 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    That's funny. It's a keyboard, what could be compromised?
    There it is. Not much else to say.
    09-10-18 08:16 AM
  9. Fred Wu's Avatar
    There it is. Not much else to say.
    With all the keyboards in BlackBerry phones. You think KEY2 has the keyboard not compromised and KEY1, Priv, Passport and all old ones and you are not satisfied? Haha.

    I will see what you gonna comment on KEY3 next year if there is one.
    09-10-18 08:20 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    With all the keyboards in BlackBerry phones. You think KEY2 has the keyboard not compromised and KEY1, Priv, Passport and all old ones and you are not satisfied? Haha.

    I will see what you gonna comment on KEY3 next year if there is one.
    I never said prior keyboards were compromised. They were all the best they could do at the time.

    I want them to do the same today - first, build the best keyboard they can, and THEN do what they can on the rest at the chosen price point.
    09-10-18 08:21 AM
  11. Fred Wu's Avatar
    I never said prior keyboards were compromised. They were all the best they could do at the time.
    Then what's wrong with keeping key1 keyboard but improve other aspects? So TCL chose a new design of keyboard, then has to make something worse for so-called non-compromised keyboard? Haha.
    09-10-18 08:23 AM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Then what's wrong with keeping key1 keyboard but improve other aspects? So TCL chose a new design of keyboard, then has to make something worse for so-called non-compromised keyboard? Haha.
    It's a better keyboard, hands down.

    20% larger keys, matte finish, speedkey, improved feedback.
    Mamaluka likes this.
    09-10-18 08:25 AM
  13. Fred Wu's Avatar
    It's a better keyboard, hands down.

    20% larger keys, mat finish, speedkey.
    But still it doesn't mean key1 keyboard is compromised. Still quite a lot people prefer KeY1 keyboard as I read here and on Chinese forum. That "better" is relative to each person. But making improvement to other aspects are truly improvement.
    09-10-18 08:30 AM
  14. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I'm really getting tired of the same old intellectually challenged arguments.

    For people who don't think it worth it paying extra for a BlackBerry, you're wasting your time here. You've been wasting your time for 10+ years.


    09-10-18 08:34 AM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Screens are comparable in my opinion.

    KEYs have 434 ppi IPS LCD screen, and Passport has 453 ppi IPS LCD screen. Small difference is simply a mathematical function of the screen ratio.

    KEYs has a maximum brightness of 665 nits, and a contrast ratio of 1:2241. Passport is 894, and 1:1161 respectively. All are in the "excellent" range according to testing labs - except for Passport contrast which is "good".
    Yes, I have to agree.
    09-10-18 08:36 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    But still it doesn't mean key1 keyboard is compromised. Still quite a lot people prefer KeY1 keyboard as I read here and on Chinese forum. That "better" is relative to each person. But making improvement to other aspects are truly improvement.
    But it’s the primary reason for the intended buyer. That buyer is willing to settle in other areas... it’s what most people think of with BB, a PKB.
    09-10-18 08:38 AM
  17. Fred Wu's Avatar
    But it’s the primary reason for the intended buyer. That buyer is willing to settle in other areas... it’s what most people think of with BB, a PKB.
    So it comes down to use a pkb or use a different design of pkb every year, disregard everything else?
    09-10-18 08:42 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    But still it doesn't mean key1 keyboard is compromised. Still quite a lot people prefer KeY1 keyboard as I read here and on Chinese forum. That "better" is relative to each person. But making improvement to other aspects are truly improvement.
    Arrghh. I never said the KEYᵒⁿᵉ keyboard was compromised. I'm saying that any design from BBMo should make no compromises on the pkb as it's first objective. They have done that so far with the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and KEY². I don't want them to change that. Everything else comes after.
    09-10-18 08:47 AM
  19. conite's Avatar
    So it comes down to use a pkb or use a different design of pkb every year, disregard everything else?
    Huh?

    Technology advances, manufacturing capabilities advance, designs improve. Keep moving. Physical keyboard comes first. Never compromise.
    09-10-18 08:49 AM
  20. Fred Wu's Avatar
    Huh?

    Technology advances, manufacturing capabilities advance, designs improve. Keep moving. Physical keyboard comes first.
    But the design is different in each BlackBerry phone, not necessary improved phone to phone.

    What's wrong to keep the same design if it's never compromised but to improve other aspects?

    Once the design is changed, internally components may gonna change as well. Size, shape, layout and etc.
    09-10-18 08:55 AM
  21. bh7171's Avatar
    I understand all the various view points. If the hardware on the Key one camera was the same as the Pixel and that is rated as high as it is why not allocate time and resources to simply improving the software while focusing on improving the keyboard hardware as they did? The dual lens, to me, and pundits is proven unnecessary in the Samsung S9, Pixel, Pixel 2 and it's looking like the 3. And also the standard iPhone 6s, 7, 8 as better than "good". I agree that at 650 with no carrier support and no trade in programs settling for adequate on the phone camera is in the eyes of many not acceptable. Especially when users know they can get class leading on a trade in for 349-400. All flagships (and the Key2 is BlackBerry 's flagship) usually have a trade in program. Had Key one users been offered say 250-300 for their Key 1 I imagine price would not be as much a concern for the entirety of what one gets with the enhanced and updated Key2. Just my .02
    09-10-18 08:57 AM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    So it comes down to use a pkb or use a different design of pkb every year, disregard everything else?
    You’re in that roughly 95% of users that Android/IOS OEMs are fighting to do business with and mostly if not all but couple OEMs losing money on. BBMo/TCL is chasing a possible sliver of profit that others are ignoring. Primary interest of BB and BBMo are small incremental growth and profits. They’re happy to let the other brands kill themselves off with enormous losses.
    09-10-18 08:58 AM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I understand all the various view points. If the hardware on the Key one camera was the same as the Pixel and that is rated as high as it is why not allocate time and resources to simply improving the software while focusing on improving the keyboard hardware as they did. The dual lens, to me, and pundits is proven in the Samsung S9, Pixel, Pixel 2 and it's looking like the 3. And also the standard iPhone 6s, 7, 8 as better than "good". I agree that at 650 with no carrier support and no trade in programs settling for adequate on the phone camera is in the eyes of many not acceptable. Especially when users know they can get class leading on a trade in for 349-400. All flagships (and the Key2 is BlackBerry 's flagship) usually have a trade in program. Had Key one users been offered say 250-300 for their Key 1 I imagine price would not be as much a concern for the entirety of what one gets with the enhanced and updated Key2. Just my .02
    And they lose money on every device selling below cost or very close. What’s the point? Either profitable or don’t bother...
    09-10-18 09:00 AM
  24. Fred Wu's Avatar
    You’re in that roughly 95% of users that Android/IOS OEMs are fighting to do business with and mostly if not all but couple OEMs losing money on. BBMo/TCL is chasing a possible sliver of profit that others are ignoring. Primary interest of BB and BBMo are small incremental growth and profits. They’re happy to let the other brands kill themselves off with enormous losses.
    If you saw a previous post, the all shipments from TCL communication was down by 40% in the Q1, and 30% in Q2, compared to 2017.
    09-10-18 09:00 AM
  25. evodevo69's Avatar
    How do you know what I value?

    For instance, I wouldn't use a Note 9 if it was given to me. I'm sure it's a lovely phone, but it's not for me.

    So I would take a KEY² at $649, and reject a Note 9 at $0.
    Yea that's my point - what you value, subjectively speaking, is fine.

    Objectively/comparatively - you're overpaying for what you're getting. Doesn't matter if it's the only PKB on the market lol.

    If you need a PKB that badly - well, yes, pay the ridiculous asking price for these BBMo phones.
    09-10-18 09:03 AM
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