[conite]

If you saw a previous post, the all shipments from TCL communication was down by 40% in the Q1, and 30% in Q2, compared to 2017.

Yes. As BBMo only went up (from 0), it was Alcatel that sustained the losses. We're only talking about BBMo.

[Chuck Finley69]

If you saw a previous post, the all shipments from TCL communication was down by 40% in the Q1, and 30% in Q2, compared to 2017.

Which is why they’re focused on BB licensed devices. If not profitable, they’ll just exit mobile device OEM business. It’s no different than shift from Web 1.0 to Web 2.0 companies. Losing money chasing prospects has become less acceptable to management and shareholders.. welcome to 2018

[Chuck Finley69]

Yea that's my point - what you value, subjectively speaking, is fine.

Objectively/comparatively - you're overpaying for what you're getting. Doesn't matter if it's the only PKB on the market lol.

If you need a PKB that badly - well, yes, pay the ridiculous asking price for these BBMo phones.

It’s only ridiculous if others are offering at better price... these are the same arguments people used to make and some continue to make about high priced Android/IOS hardware. If enough people are willing to pay to be profitable, then PKB devices will continue. If you don’t wish to pay the price, don’t pay it? How are those of us paying the price affecting you?

[anon(10268214)]

If you need a PKB that badly - well, yes, pay the ridiculous asking price for these BBMo phones.

Ridiculous to who? To the people who don't buy them anyway?

Lol. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[evodevo69]

You’re in that roughly 95% of users that Android/IOS OEMs are fighting to do business with and mostly if not all but couple OEMs losing money on. BBMo/TCL is chasing a possible sliver of profit that others are ignoring. Primary interest of BB and BBMo are small incremental growth and profits. They’re happy to let the other brands kill themselves off with enormous losses.

This is hilarious lmao

If the other brands aren't making money, BBMo sure as hell isn't either.

There's a reason why they're ignoring this segment.

BB is the one making money - not sure about TCL but people are dreaming in la la land if they think they'll ever regain enterprise, department of defense, and clients of that nature.

Enterprises have been and are doing well with their more affordable samsung and/or apple "fleet phones" - something the DTEK50 (anyone remember this one lol) was supposed to do but like everything else they've done since the Priv, went no where except at Crackberry lol.

The DTEK50 was another hall of famer - people on here saying it's camera was comparable to the iphone and samsung galaxy flagships at the time lmao....

[evodevo69]

It’s only ridiculous if others are offering at better price... these are the same arguments people used to make and some continue to make about high priced Android/IOS hardware. If enough people are willing to pay to be profitable, then PKB devices will continue. If you don’t wish to pay the price, don’t pay it? How are those of us paying the price affecting you?

Been a pretty loyal BB user for years and for PKB sake I hope they succeed - but I don't have a good feeling about that.

Just from the user reviews on the KEY2 and the ridiculous cutbacks on the LE - I'm going to guess that if they make a KEY3 and it's not a home run, that'll be the end.

[anon(10268214)]

I understand all the various view points. If the hardware on the Key one camera was the same as the Pixel and that is rated as high as it is why not allocate time and resources to simply improving the software while focusing on improving the keyboard hardware as they did? The dual lens, to me, and pundits is proven unnecessary in the Samsung S9, Pixel, Pixel 2 and it's looking like the 3. And also the standard iPhone 6s, 7, 8 as better than "good". I agree that at 650 with no carrier support and no trade in programs settling for adequate on the phone camera is in the eyes of many not acceptable. Especially when users know they can get class leading on a trade in for 349-400. All flagships (and the Key2 is BlackBerry 's flagship) usually have a trade in program. Had Key one users been offered say 250-300 for their Key 1 I imagine price would not be as much a concern for the entirety of what one gets with the enhanced and updated Key2. Just my .02

BBMo is still experimenting. They captured some market with the KeyONE. The Key2 seems to be about a modest move upmarket into what they may have missed out on last year (worked for me, Lol) by appealing to those with a slightly higher affinity for specs and features. They are doing the same for the LE only in the opposite direction, prodding the lower end of the spectrum. I think what we are seeing from them is actually encouraging, because it proves their approach has some depth. Its not a 'one size fits all' mentality.

I'm glad to see they are taking the BlackBerry brand seriously. It seems to me they are in this for the long haul...if the market cooperates.

[thurask]

If the hardware on the Key one camera was the same as the Pixel and that is rated as high as it is why not allocate time and resources to simply improving the software while focusing on improving the keyboard hardware as they did?

Speaking optimistically, there's only so much work a decent-sized development team can do, and not only is getting the camera perfect difficult, but fitting the square peg of a physical keyboard into the round hole of the Android OS is work enough. TCL doesn't have Google's/Samsung's/Apple's manpower or expertise.

[evodevo69]

Speaking optimistically, there's only so much work a decent-sized development team can do, and not only is getting the camera perfect difficult, but fitting the square peg of a physical keyboard into the round hole of the Android OS is work enough. TCL doesn't have Google's/Samsung's/Apple's manpower or expertise.

This - and it's been very apparent from the very beginning.

[Chuck Finley69]

This is hilarious lmao

If the other brands aren't making money, BBMo sure as hell isn't either.

There's a reason why they're ignoring this segment.

BB is the one making money - not sure about TCL but people are dreaming in la la land if they think they'll ever regain enterprise, department of defense, and clients of that nature.

Enterprises have been and are doing well with their more affordable samsung and/or apple "fleet phones" - something the DTEK50 (anyone remember this one lol) was supposed to do but like everything else they've done since the Priv, went no where except at Crackberry lol.

The DTEK50 was another hall of famer - people on here saying it's camera was comparable to the iphone and samsung galaxy flagships at the time lmao....

The OEMs are using traditional method of volume manufacturing to get best pricing. That’s not method used with BBMo/TCL regarding any of the PKB devices. Niche device model production is just that. Will it be successful? No idea? But it’s the only model that has a chance to succeed because traditional model is already killing off the Android OEMs just like with Computers and Tablets.

[Chuck Finley69]

Been a pretty loyal BB user for years and for PKB sake I hope they succeed - but I don't have a good feeling about that.

Just from the user reviews on the KEY2 and the ridiculous cutbacks on the LE - I'm going to guess that if they make a KEY3 and it's not a home run, that'll be the end.

I’ve never expected anything beyond the current device. The Bold 9900 was the last commercially successful device. That was 6-7 years ago depending on your carrier.... I’m happy just to see any new device released. I’m glad to see BBAndroid. If not successful, just a phone, I have plenty of choices, just no PKB.

[chain13]

It's a better keyboard, hands down.

20% larger keys, matte finish, speedkey, improved feedback.

And for that outter design changes, they compromise something else that they think less important

[conite]

And for that outter design changes, they compromise something else that they think less important

The camera is arguable, as it does some things better, and some things worse - but everything else is the same or significantly improved (SoC, memory, storage).

[chrispmoto]

Been a pretty loyal BB user for years and for PKB sake I hope they succeed - but I don't have a good feeling about that.

Just from the user reviews on the KEY2 and the ridiculous cutbacks on the LE - I'm going to guess that if they make a KEY3 and it's not a home run, that'll be the end.

I would be surprised to even see the 3.
When hard core users like me are leaving, it can't be good.

[chain13]

Ask 100 random people to look at a KEY² and ask them if it's unique/specialised. My bet is that 100 would say yes.

Then ask them the same question about a OnePlus 6.

Makes no sense, why would I?
Even if that hundred people say it's unique, majority of them won't think it worth the price after knowing the internals. BBTax is ridiculous.

[conite]

Makes no sense, why would I?
Even if that hundred people say it's unique, majority of them won't think it worth the price after knowing the internals. BBTax is ridiculous.

You're changing the argument now.

Whether people VALUE that uniqueness is another question entirely. BBMo only needs a couple million a year who do (about 1 in 750).

The BB / low volume tax is the price to play.

[Bbnivende]

You're changing the argument now.

Whether people VALUE that uniqueness is another question entirely. BBMo only needs a couple million a year who do (about 1 in 750).

The BB / low volume tax is the price to play.

A couple of million units sold seems very very optimistic. If they had excellent support and tons of happy customers then maybe.

As an outsider, I do not see it. The price is not really the problem. Is there really enough demand? The TCL house of brands strategy is not comparable to Volvo or Nokia’s branding exercise.

[conite]

A couple of million units sold seems very very optimistic. If they had excellent support and tons of happy customers then maybe.

As an outsider, I do not see it. The price is not really the problem. Is there really enough demand? The TCL house of brands strategy is not comparable to Volvo or Nokia’s branding exercise.

That will be the job of analysts years from now.

But I think it's doable. My gut says they sold at least 1.5 million KEYᵒⁿᵉs. By expanding the price net both higher and lower with the KEY² and KEY² LE, I would hope they can keep growing.

[Bbnivende]

That will be the job of analysts years from now.

But I think it's doable. My gut says they sold at least 1.5 million KEYᵒⁿᵉs. By expanding the price net both higher and lower with the KEY² and KEY² LE, I would hope they can keep growing.

Ok but that is for a 1.5 year sales period.
2 million units come next February would be realistic for the Keys.

[conite]

Ok but that is for a 1.5 year sales period.
2 million units come next February would be realistic for the Keys.

Product only began to get to market in any significant numbers by June of last year. But we're splitting hairs.

[Mamaluka]

Yea that's my point - what you value, subjectively speaking, is fine.

Objectively/comparatively - you're overpaying for what you're getting. Doesn't matter if it's the only PKB on the market lol.

If you need a PKB that badly - well, yes, pay the ridiculous asking price for these BBMo phones.

We kinda did lol
The only thing that could possibly derail this BlackBerry train, at this point, would be Samsung somehow releasing a Note with a PKB that equals or surpasses the current Key2 or even the past Bold/Classic without getting sued by BlackBerry.

When I bought my first BB it was because I needed email on the go. The PKB was secondary at the time, but became primary afterwards. I couldn't care less about security, I operate a local business and, like most, we don't have a need for encrypted messages.
Nowadays, I need the PKB. If I want entertainment I grab my Note or a tablet and shoot the signal to my flat screen which hasn't been hooked up to cable since 2010.

[markusbeutel]

Running an 845, all glass design, mediocre camera. So in other words, in terms of the camera...a bigger fail than the Key2. Lol.

And by the way - I specifically said running a 660. Please read before you post.

OnePlus 6 camera destroys the Key2 camera... Lol. It's an excellent overall device without the TCL shortcuts. That's why it's sold more in its first month than the Key1 sold in its first year.

[anon(10268214)]

OnePlus 6 camera destroys the Key2 camera

Reading is such a drag, isnt it? The Oneplus 6 is not running a 660, and the OnePlus 6 is still not up to the level of other flagships.

In fact, the OnePlus 6 camera is more of a "fail", relatively speaking, than the Key2's is. Its outdone by numerous 845 based (or less) flagships such as Pixel and Samsung, whereas the Key2 camera punches well above its weight in the 660 chipset category.

I'm still waiting for someone to demonstrate an equivalent-to-flagship quality camera on another device running a 660...not to mention mounting an intelligent justification as to why comparing the Key2's camera to a flagship level camera is even relevant in the first place....

Looks like I'll be waiting a while. But keep trying. LMAO

[chain13]

You're changing the argument now.

Whether people VALUE that uniqueness is another question entirely. BBMo only needs a couple million a year who do (about 1 in 750).

The BB / low volume tax is the price to play.

I didn’t, you did. The point is I don’t care how things work even if I know how things work, the phone is simply overprice despite its unique or not.

For those who support them by buying, go right ahead. Give them the money they want, until they could come with more deserve having device, I will stand on denial to pay

[conite]

I didn’t, you did. The point is I don’t care how things work even if I know how things work, the phone is simply overprice despite its unique or not.

For those who support them by buying, go right ahead. Give them the money they want, until they could come with more deserve having device, I will stand on denial to pay

There is no scenario that involves them losing money so you can feel better about buying a phone from them.

They are priced at exactly what it takes for them to stay in business and (hopefully) provide ROI for their shareholders.