[GoLeafsGo44]

Definite difference in the images however I couldlive with the KEY2 for my uses.

[Chuck Finley69]

A mid-range spec phone, should have a mid range price tag. That's what consumers expected.

A mid-range phone with high-end price tag, you should expect people will complain, especially a phone in 2018 is supposed to be better in anywhere compared to the previous generation. But it is NOT.

Again, as consumers, we don't need to know or don't care why the phone is that expensive. To us, the phone is expensive. It is TCL/BBM's job to reduce their costs, not us to understand their difficulties. This is buyers market not sellers atm.

BBMo/TCL is charging the BBTax and that’s not their fault. It was always understood that BBMo/TCL devices will cost extra. The money everyone wants spent on ________ goes to BB for the license tax. If you don’t wish the extra money for it, don’t buy the product. If there’s not enough people that share your desire for a premium device for ultra premium cost, you’ll never find what you’re looking for.

I’d pay million dollars for a unicorn. Let’s see how long until I find actual unicorn.

[conite]

I feel really sorry for you because you're not getting value for your money.

How do you know what I value?

For instance, I wouldn't use a Note 9 if it was given to me. I'm sure it's a lovely phone, but it's not for me.

So I would take a KEY² at $649, and reject a Note 9 at $0.

[anon(10268214)]

Try the OnePlus 6 for starters. Sub $600

Running an 845, all glass design, mediocre camera. So in other words, in terms of the camera...a bigger fail than the Key2. Lol.

And by the way - I specifically said running a 660. Please read before you post.

[Fred Wu]

BBMo/TCL is charging the BBTax and that’s not their fault. It was always understood that BBMo/TCL devices will cost extra. The money everyone wants spent on ________ goes to BB for the license tax. If you don’t wish the extra money for it, don’t buy the product. If there’s not enough people that share your desire for a premium device for ultra premium cost, you’ll never find what you’re looking for.

I’d pay million dollars for a unicorn. Let’s see how long until I find actual unicorn.

We don't care. That's their end of bargain. As consumers, we don't need to know how much they need to pay or how difficulty the situation is. We are not investors in either of the companies. TCL doesn't necessarily need BlackBerry brand and software, BlackBerry needs (or may not) TCL to keep the brand going and their security software to live on a mobile phone. It's not an unilateral dependent.

TCL communication all shipment figure (mobile phones, data cards, fixed line and other wireless acess/transmission equipment products) is out for Q2, compared to last year, 30% down.

[anon(10268214)]

A mid-range spec phone, should have a mid range price tag. That's what consumers expected.

You don't understand the brand, or the business case. Time to move on.

[Fred Wu]

You don't understand the brand, or the business case. Time to move on.

Why a consumer needs to understand those? To consumers, how much is what they care.

Like BlackBerry, as they didn't understand consumers, that what costs it today.

[conite]

We don't care. That's their end of bargain. As consumers, we don't need to know how much they need to pay or how difficulty the situation is.

You don't need to know the details. You only need to understand that the KEYx phones are low-volume, specialized devices. That shouldn't be too complicated.

[Fred98TJ]

I want to see how well (or not) these post. I’ll comment or remove after I see. :-p

Oh I think maybe ok, just remember even these are crunched by this site.
The 3rd pic from the top was taken under low light using the flash.

[Fred Wu]

You don't need to know the details. You only need to understand that the KEYx phones are low-volume, specialized devices. That shouldn't be too complicated.

No. I am a consumer, I just need to know it costs more than others with its degraded product.

It's a phone with a pkb, not a "unique" product which may have a surcharge on the "uniqueness" . It's just a phone with all phone traits available on others.

[Chuck Finley69]

We don't care. That's their end of bargain. As consumers, we don't need to know how much they need to pay or how difficulty the situation is. We are not investors in either of the companies. TCL doesn't necessarily need BlackBerry brand and software, BlackBerry needs (or may not) TCL to keep the brand going and their security software to live on a mobile phone. It's not an unilateral dependent.

TCL communication all shipment figure (mobile phones, data cards, fixed line and other wireless acess/transmission equipment products) is out for Q2, compared to last year, 30% down.

The point is that neither BBMo/TCL or BB can serve consumers like you. They’ve accepted that. It’s very possible that not enough customers to support their business model. That’s risk they’ve chosen to accept. BB doesn’t care to keep business going if not profitable. BBMo/TCL doesn’t care to keep business going if not profitable.

What you’re having difficulty grasping is that both companies accept target market at best will only be 5% market share. EVER........ and that’s highly unlikely. You’re part of the 95% of the market that could never be served profitably and neither company even cares that you exist as consumer. If you could NEVER be served profitably, why should they ever care what you want? Why else do companies exist other than for shareholder profits. Just go and buy the device that meets your needs and price and be happy with your purchase....

[anon(10268214)]

Why a consumer needs to understand those? To consumers, how much is what they care.

Like BlackBerry, as they didn't understand consumers, that what costs them today.

And what "consumer" are you referring to? BlackBerry fans ARE buying. Enough of them? That book hasn't been written. But I'll venture a guess that you're wrong. And I've got three phones from BBMo plus trim options plus global distribution in the last year and a half to prove it. What do you have?

[chain13]

You've lost it. Show me a phone with a 660 that has a flagship-level camera? Anyone who expected that was nuts anyway.

Seriously, you people need to find a new hobby...

Zenfone 5, Mi 8 SE, some Oppo lines.

[anon(10268214)]

Zenfone 5, Mi 8 SE, some Oppo lines.

Flashship level cameras in those phones? Thanks for the laugh! Lol

[Fred Wu]

The point is that neither BBMo/TCL or BB can serve consumers like you. They’ve accepted that. It’s very possible that not enough customers to support their business model. That’s risk they’ve chosen to accept. BB doesn’t care to keep business going if not profitable. BBMo/TCL doesn’t care to keep business going if not profitable.

What you’re having difficulty grasping is that both companies accept target market at best will only be 5% market share. EVER........ and that’s highly unlikely. You’re part of the 95% of the market that could never be served profitably and neither company even cares that you exist as consumer. If you could NEVER be served profitably, why should they ever care what you want? Why else do companies exist other than for shareholder profits. Just go and buy the device that meets your needs and price and be happy with your purchase....

Then

Why did they release a phone with dual lens camera in the first place? As it seems neither necessary nor important to whatever it targets.

Why was the launch event much bigger in China?

Why did they open physical shops in big cities like Shanghai?

Is that a delusion that TCL doesn't want to target more consumers? China was never a big market to BlackBerry phones in the past.

[conite]

No. I am a consumer, I just need to know it costs more than others with its degraded product.

It's a phone with a pkb, not a "unique" product which may have a surcharge on the "uniqueness" . It's just a phone with all phone traits available on others.

I think you have a hard time understanding the definition of unique.

BBMo is the only company in the world offering a physical keyboard on a smartphone.

[Fred Wu]

I think you have a hard time understanding the definition of unique.

BBMo is the only company in the world offering a physical keyboard on a smartphone.

That's not called uniqueness, it is just a feature of a phone, just as P20 Pro has triple lens camera.

[conite]

Is that a delusion that TCL doesn't want to target more consumers? China was never a big market to BlackBerry phones in the past.

They ARE targeting consumers - but not all of them (or those like you apparently).

China is TCL's home market.

[conite]

That's not called uniqueness, it is just a feature of a phone, just as P20 Pro has triple lens camera.

If you don't think the pkb is a highly unique, highly desirable feature, then you are not the intended market. Period. Full stop.

[Bbnivende]

You don't need to know the details. You only need to understand that the KEYx phones are low-volume, specialized devices. That shouldn't be too complicated.

Your comment is extremely condescending.

The issue seems to be the Licence fee and high overhead costs on a per unit basis. You are correct though. Either you need a PKB or you do not. Pay the premium if you can not or prefer not to type on glass.

Is the PKB market price sensitive? We should find out soon with the LE.

[conite]

Your comment is extremely condescending.

It's not meant to be. Perhaps I poorly conveyed my thoughts. My point is that the general consumer doesn't need to know all of the complicated details of the arrangement - just the uncomplicated fact that it's a unique, low-volume product.

[Fred Wu]

If you don't think the pkb is a highly unique, highly desirable feature, then you are not the intended market. Period. Full stop.

What intended market exactly, people having desire for a pkb, or win more consumers to use a pkb?

If it is only the first, then I am not part of it, and still doesn't explain all the "WHY" I listed above.

If it is about the second, then TCL is doing a "good" job to win more consumers.

[conite]

What intended market exactly, people having desire for a pkb, or win more consumers to use a pkb?

If it is only the first, then I am not part of it, and still doesn't explain all the "WHY" I listed above.

If it is about the second, then TCL is doing a "good" job to win more consumers.

Doesn't matter.

If one doesn't highly value a physical keyboard, there is no value play at all with a BBMo device.

BBMo will try to convince new customers that a physical keyboard is highly desirable, but will NEVER win them over with price alone. Ever.

[Fred98TJ]

I want to see how well (or not) these post. I’ll comment or remove after I see. :-p

Oh I think maybe ok, just remember even these are crunched by this site.
The 3rd pic from the top was taken under low light using the flash.

I just wanted to post these up to show how far cell phone cams, in general, have not advanced compared to most other aspects of the phones. Not just the K2, but kind of an indictment of even “flagship” phones.
These photos are not mine.
They were taken by a cell phone that was released in 2010. That’s 8 years ago.
Now everything has to be supersaturated and massively overprocessed and way oversharpened.

[Fred98TJ]

I want to see how well (or not) these post. I’ll comment or remove after I see. :-p

Oh I think maybe ok, just remember even these are crunched by this site.
The 3rd pic from the top was taken under low light using the flash.

I just wanted to post these up to show how far cell phone cams, in general, have not advanced compared to most other aspects of the phones. Not just the K2, but kind of an indictment of even “flagship” phones.
These photos are not mine.
They were taken by a cell phone that was released in 2010. That’s 8 years ago.
Now everything has to be supersaturated and massively overprocessed and way oversharpened.