[Chuck Finley69]

Let’s switch this around. What can BLackBerry do to move beyond a niche product?

How can they make a device that would appeal to the broad range of Enterprise buyers.? The software is good but the Motion was not even close to ticking all the boxes.

BBMo doesn’t really have the resources to compete outside the niche space. At this point, BBMo needs to focus on success within the niche space and carrier support and sales. Carriers will determine if BBMo goes any further beyond niche.

[bb10adopter111]

Let’s switch this around. What can BLackBerry do to move beyond a niche product?

How can they make a device that would appeal to the broad range of Enterprise buyers.? The software is good but the Motion was not even close to ticking all the boxes.

It seems to me that you may have a different idea of what success looks like in 2018 than the product managers at BlackBerry Mobile. I don't think they are targeting a "broad range of Enterprise users" at this time.

I think that, for now, they are simply trying to reestablish the BlackBerry brand and solidify a small, sustainable niche in the Android universe with reliable retail shelf space and carrier support, without losing too much money. It may take another 2-4 years of consistent growth and performance before they will have a strong-enough brand to address a broader market segment with a slab phone.

I think you may care a more about BlackBerry's market success than I do. I'm interested in workplace productivity, not market share or consumer appeal.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Prince Fly]

If I had to choose between the two I'd choose KEY2.

I want a physical keyboard.

The fact that it's $350 cheaper is also a big reason.

Me too.

Posted from my BlackBerry Q10

[thurask]

Let’s switch this around. What can BLackBerry do to move beyond a niche product?

How can they make a device that would appeal to the broad range of Enterprise buyers.? The software is good but the Motion was not even close to ticking all the boxes.

Little, if anything.

Enterprise-wise, BlackBerry Limited is safe with their slice of the UEM market and diversifying their offerings to work with more platforms than just in-house devices. They can go off on their IoT/MDM/TLA thing.

But for devices, TCL/BB Mobile doesn't have the influence, carrier relations, quality control, or other things that larger OEMs have. The dwindling keyboard niche is all they have going for them, especially when the "muh security" bullet point is handled by central MDM/Android itself regardless of the endpoint device in an enterprise environment.

[chain13]

Again, because they don't. You can list all of their product KSPs but that doesn't change the facts I mentioned in my previous post (the ones you apparently failed to comprehend).

Apple is good at marketing, not at innovation. They buy innovations and combine them with their existing products. The way you are painfully militant about this makes me wonder if someone changed your Apple forums bookmark to redirect to us as some sort of practical joke.

Apple didn’t invent fingerprint scanner, true but they put touch id with deeper integration for payment, passbook etc

Apple didn’t invent face unlock, true but they use different method to recognize your face by using dots sensor that mapping your face’s contour instead using regular camera with image processing

Apple didn’t invent bluetooth headset, also true, but they use their own W1 chip that manage wireless comm more efficiently for wearable devices, this chip also being used by other headphone manufacturer and also now come the 2nd gen in watch 3

They buy innovation, they pay patents, whats wrong with that? In the end, as a consumer I just need to know that the final product is just pleasant to use. Simple

[chain13]

Speaking for myself only,

1. No Hub for iOS is an absolute deal-breaker. It's just too laborious to monitor all of my work-related email accounts (I currently have 6.), and calendars.
2. Account segregation: Apple doesn't make it easy to keep contacts segregated by account. I have to track thousands of contacts and never confuse which of my clients owns each relationship.
3. Lack of local file management. I have to use apps to access cloud storage accounts, which means I can't draft emails with attachments unless I use those cloud-based storage apps. This is slow and inefficient.
4. Lack of Flick-to-Type slows me down.
5. I find the VKB to be inferior to BlackBerry's in general.

True, I also use 7+ and mostly you said are true

IOS mail and contact app are way too clean, I used outlook instead because it has better integration to my workmail, calendar, and contacts. Not sure what do you mean by segregated contact. But I use more than one account in my contact app, and I could simply tap the Group button and check/uncheck which contact group account I want/don’t want to see

You could attach local file to email, don’t need to use cloud based storage, there is an app called Documents, the app is simply a file manager that bridge any directory of your phone (local file and cloud). The app also integrated into stock Files app.

[bb10adopter111]

True, I also use 7+ and mostly you said are true

IOS mail and contact app are way too clean, I used outlook instead because it has better integration to my workmail, calendar, and contacts. Not sure what do you mean by segregated contact. But I use more than one account in my contact app, and I could simply tap the Group button and check/uncheck which contact group account I want/don’t want to see

You could attach local file to email, don’t need to use cloud based storage, there is an app called Documents, the app is simply a file manager that bridge any directory of your phone (local file and cloud). The app also integrated into stock Files app.

I'm sure I could make an iPhone work better than it does out of the box with tweaks and apps, but there is absolutely nothing about the iPhone that I like better than my BB10 Z10 or Android Oreo KEYone, so why should I bother?

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Bbnivende]

I'm sure I could make an iPhone work better than it does out of the box with tweaks and apps, but there is absolutely nothing about the iPhone that I like better than my BB10 Z10 or Android Oreo KEYone, so why should I bother?

Posted with my trusty Z10

I do not think the poster was asking you to switch. He was just pointing out some features of his phone. No one is saying that your phone choice is wrong for you or for anyone else either.

[bb10adopter111]

I do not think the poster was asking you to switch. He was just pointing out some features of his phone. No one is saying that your phone choice is wrong for you or for anyone else either.

You may be right, but what he wrote was, "You could attach local file to email..." That's not a statement about the features of his phone. It's a suggestion that I could change how I use my phone.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Bbnivende]

Little, if anything.

Enterprise-wise, BlackBerry Limited is safe with their slice of the UEM market and diversifying their offerings to work with more platforms than just in-house devices. They can go off on their IoT/MDM/TLA thing.

But for devices, TCL/BB Mobile doesn't have the influence, carrier relations, quality control, or other things that larger OEMs have. The dwindling keyboard niche is all they have going for them, especially when the "muh security" bullet point is handled by central MDM/Android itself regardless of the endpoint device in an enterprise environment.

I am curious to see whether the Evolve is in production or ever will be.

I am curious what it means to have BlackBerry Secure on a non BlackBerry branded device.

My suspicion is that BlackBerry would like to drop their Android OS as soon as their contracts end.

My suspicion is that TCL knows that their premium device ambitions have not been successful and they are playing out their contract obligations.

I wonder if Chen’s call for a new 9900 type phone was a signal that they are willing to licence out their keyboard designs.

Nothing concrete just speculation.

[markusbeutel]

Comparing all touch phones , why is Android better than iOS for mailing and texting ?

Lol it's not, unless you like phones that have multiple apps for messaging and a non-uniform experience with no continuity.

[anon(10268214)]

haha it wasn’t my intention at all to start a debate on what is innovation.

Basically to me innovation is to bring something that hasn’t been done before.

Some here seem to say that Apple doesn’t innovate because they didn’t bring the AMOLED screen and the Qi charging to market.

To me coding a software that makes apps need half the RAM of Android is innovation.

Or bringing features to a smart watch that no one else did... that’s innovation (BTW ECG stands for electro cardio gram).

Or simply packing the smallest bluetooth headset, that’s innovation.

Facial ID that maps a 3D image of the face on a smartphone, that’s innovation.

7nm chips is a huge innovation. It’s an innovation for Qualcomm, Apple and that chinese company that I forgot the name.

BES was innovation.

So was the capacitive keyboard

Even BIS with the push email.

The a manufacturer innovate, the more competition will struggle to catch them up.

And NO! Innovation is not INVENTION!

Apple didn’t invent the bluetooth headset

Apple did not invent the 7nm chips

Apple did not invent the ECG

So PLEASE stop mixing things up!

You're still trying to confuse what Apple says is new for *Apple* and has never been done on any *Apple product* with true innovation. These are two very different things. As I already stated, only a relatively small portion of what Apple is doing is truly innovative. But they're super good at creating the illusion that ALL of it is...at least to their customers.

As for the ECG - yeah I know what that means, so do most people here Bob - the well-to-do of our society have always had access to better health care. The expensive new iPhone - and the Apple watch you also need to make ECG work - are no different. Come and talk to us about how many lives it's saved - as opposed to how many doctor visits it generated or whether it was the first to be 'FDA approved' - in a few years from now. Let's hope it works, and they don't get sued for malpractice. Lol.

[chain13]

I'm sure I could make an iPhone work better than it does out of the box with tweaks and apps, but there is absolutely nothing about the iPhone that I like better than my BB10 Z10 or Android Oreo KEYone, so why should I bother?

Posted with my trusty Z10

You may be right, but what he wrote was, "You could attach local file to email..." That's not a statement about the features of his phone. It's a suggestion that I could change how I use my phone.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Maybe I missread your post and don’t get your point, but I refer that to your statement about why android is better than ios for mail because “I can’t draft emails with attachments unless I use those cloud-based storage apps”. So I thought you also use (or once used) ios, if that ever goes/went out, I just want to tell you that “yes you can actually draft emails with attachments without cloud-based storage apps”. But why bother, you don’t even use one, do you

[the_boon]

What good is Apple's innovative devices if the damn batteries can barely make it through a whole day?

And that's when out of the box, don't get me started on the performance a few months/year down the road

[thurask]

I am curious to see whether the Evolve is in production or ever will be.

I am curious what it means to have BlackBerry Secure on a non BlackBerry branded device.

My suspicion is that BlackBerry would like to drop their Android OS as soon as their contracts end.

My suspicion is that TCL knows that their premium device ambitions have not been successful and they are playing out their contract obligations.

I wonder if Chen’s call for a new 9900 type phone was a signal that they are willing to licence out their keyboard designs.

Nothing concrete just speculation.

I'm wondering which bargain basement Chinese device you'll get if you scratch off the logo on the Evolve/X.

As for "BlackBerry Secure", I think it's just a layer of branding over hardware root of trust.

[krazyatom]

What good is Apple's innovative devices if the damn batteries can barely make it through a whole day?

And that's when out of the box, don't get me started on the performance a few months/year down the road

I am not sure if you’re being sarcastic. Apple battery optimization is far better than android.

[the_boon]

I am not sure if you’re being sarcastic. Apple battery optimization is far better than android.

I'm totally not. I know their optimizations is good, but they ruin it by cramming tiny batteries. At the end of the day, the SOT is disappointing.

[Bbnivende]

I'm wondering which bargain basement Chinese device you'll get if you scratch off the logo on the Evolve/X.

As for "BlackBerry Secure", I think it's just a layer of branding over hardware root of trust.

I missed the news item that the Evolve has launched on September 12 th. It will be interesting to read the reviews.

[markusbeutel]

What good is Apple's innovative devices if the damn batteries can barely make it through a whole day?

And that's when out of the box, don't get me started on the performance a few months/year down the road

Can easily make it through a day. You just clearly haven't used an iPhone in 5 years.

And compare the Key 2 in 5 years with zero updates over the last 4 years of its lifespan against a fully updated iPhone X... the Key 2 will be worth $50 and last for an hour on a charge with access to 10% of the apps on the google play store.

Meanwhile, the iPhone X will still have the latest update, have access to all apps, and sell for $300-500.

But you do you. Keep schilling for TCL.

[the_boon]

Can easily make it through a day. You just clearly haven't used an iPhone in 5 years.

And compare the Key 2 in 5 years with zero updates over the last 4 years of its lifespan against a fully updated iPhone X... the Key 2 will be worth $50 and last for an hour on a charge with access to 10% of the apps on the google play store.

Meanwhile, the iPhone X will still have the latest update, have access to all apps, and sell for $300-500.

But you do you. Keep schilling for TCL.

I was bashing Apple, not “schilling for TCL” (whatever that means).

As for not having used an iPhone for 5 years, I’m typing this one on now (well, Typo keyboard cover).
Of course the KEY2 (and iPhone X) battery won’t be great in 5 years, but you’d be able to replace it on both phones anyway. Just one had a better one to start off with than the other phone, that’s all.
I mean, Apple has the most powerful chipsets on the market, and pairs them with 256gb/512gb of storage... But then what powers all of that? A 2700mAh cell lol.

[markusbeutel]

I was bashing Apple, not “schilling for TCL” (whatever that means).

As for not having used an iPhone for 5 years, I’m typing this one on now (well, Typo keyboard cover).
Of course the KEY2 (and iPhone X) battery won’t be great in 5 years, but you’d be able to replace it on both phones anyway. Just one had a better one to start off with than the other phone, that’s all.
I mean, Apple has the most powerful chipsets on the market, and pairs them with 256gb/512gb of storage... But then what powers all of that? A 2700mAh cell lol.

And yet the X easily last a full day. Because Apple optimized everything - that's why they can get by on 3-4gb of ram, where the Key 2 needs a monster battery and 6gb of ram to make sure it doesn't become a lag-machine like the KeyOne.

I'd love to see a battery comparison between the Xs and Key2 in 5 years time. With the lack of updates and a mish mash of unupdated apps, the Key 2 will have far worse battery life.

[AhabSnake]

I will also wait for the KEY3. I now have the Motion which I believe is an amazing device especially for its price. When hearing the stories about the KEY2 I constantly get the feeling something is a little off. While I really would like to go back to having a PKB, I think there are too many things TCL should have done better. A wobbly space bar, bad quality camera, no screen improvement, still using these archaic capacitive buttons. And then priced for 650 euro. It's just too much.

I think they relied too much on the fact that people want this device with a PKB and would take the other things for granted. I won't.

For the KEY3 I need:

- on-screen buttons so a bit bigger screen
- preferably an AMOLED panel
- 4000mah battery


Then I will buy.

Those won't happen, well maybe a 4000 battery. But the amoled is a non issue to me. I have no issues with the screen both in and outdoors.

[AhabSnake]

And yet the X easily last a full day. Because Apple optimized everything - that's why they can get by on 3-4gb of ram, where the Key 2 needs a monster battery and 6gb of ram to make sure it doesn't become a lag-machine like the KeyOne.

I'd love to see a battery comparison between the Xs and Key2 in 5 years time. With the lack of updates and a mish mash of unupdated apps, the Key 2 will have far worse battery life.

Well my keyone works like a dream, after i learnt a few neat optimisation tricks. I can imagine how much great i will have it with a key2 better cpu and double the ram. But at this stage i don't need the switch,maybe a key3 will blow me away.

[bobshine]

I was bashing Apple, not “schilling for TCL” (whatever that means).

As for not having used an iPhone for 5 years, I’m typing this one on now (well, Typo keyboard cover).
Of course the KEY2 (and iPhone X) battery won’t be great in 5 years, but you’d be able to replace it on both phones anyway. Just one had a better one to start off with than the other phone, that’s all.
I mean, Apple has the most powerful chipsets on the market, and pairs them with 256gb/512gb of storage... But then what powers all of that? A 2700mAh cell lol.

Im a heavy user and my iPhone 6S Plus can easily make it through the day.

Apple just don’t need larger batteries or more RAM than most devices.

[bobshine]

You're still trying to confuse what Apple says is new for *Apple* and has never been done on any *Apple product* with true innovation. These are two very different things. As I already stated, only a relatively small portion of what Apple is doing is truly innovative. But they're super good at creating the illusion that ALL of it is...at least to their customers.

As for the ECG - yeah I know what that means, so do most people here Bob - the well-to-do of our society have always had access to better health care. The expensive new iPhone - and the Apple watch you also need to make ECG work - are no different. Come and talk to us about how many lives it's saved - as opposed to how many doctor visits it generated or whether it was the first to be 'FDA approved' - in a few years from now. Let's hope it works, and they don't get sued for malpractice. Lol.

So you’re definition of innovation is really narrow! Tell me something. Who innovates then? And what did they innovate???

And I like your « sarcasm »... « let’s hope that it works ». Well that’s one thing you don’t have to worry about with Apple, it just works.