[tfitzpat03]

I am the kind of person that believes in being diverse. I love blackberry and I love android so if blackberry didn't go to android I would have a BB10 phone and an android phone. Luckily they were able to preserve their brand and adopt android so that worked out.

Example, I love playstation and that's what I mostly have but I have friends with an Xbox and they wanted me to convert over to xbox to play online. I told them I will never convert. So what I decided to do was get an Xbox along with my playstation.

Moral of the story: Sometimes you have to just adapt. It's not always about brand loyalty. If you got friends and/or coworkers with iPhone and android, why not get both? (if you can afford it of course.) That's just me.

[custerluca]

And what if he's using BlackBerry UEM with his iPhone, which he almost certainly is? BlackBerry is now like Microsoft, they are platform agnostic for 99% of their business. That's why they got out of hardware, so they could partner with everyone instead of competing.

You are really ridiculous if you think that Bryan Palma uses BlackBerry UEM with his iPhone .. he is simply using his iPhone because he likes it and there is nothing to add. Everyone on the subject thinks what they want. I think that being CEO BlackBerry would do well to use a device with the BlackBerry brand. You think it's nice to use an iphone for the reasons you said. Best wishes.

Posted with the wonderful physical keyboard of Key2

Sorry for my english, but I'm italian and I'm not fluent in english.

[bb10adopter111]

That photo, and any other. The better photo you start with, the better the end result. Even if social media reduces the resolution. It seems even BlackBerry's own PR people understand this basic fact.

And yes the camera does make a difference...even for pictures ”like that".

I find all of this a little ironic, from a guy using a BB10 phone that probably couldn't post a photo to Twitter if he wanted to, let alone snap a passable photograph of human beings (by today's standards).

You're talking abstracts. In the real world, in good light, there are only minor differences in the way photos are processed between my Z10 and the newest iPhone. There are differences, and the iPhone is infinitely more capable overall, but the algorithms are based on research done more than a decade ago, and the sensors aren't that different in performance under those conditions.

In fact, I post plenty of social media photos taken with my Z10, but I generally do it from my PC, so that I can batch and schedule the postings across many accounts (primarily Twitter and LinkedIn) using Web-based tools that coordinate our marketing messages.

You honestly sound to me like a tech enthusiast who thinks newer and more expensive is always better for everything. I'm more practical. My measure of whether a social media photos is "better" is whether it generates more engagement that translates into sales and profit.

In a photo like the one in question, there is almost zero chance that the photo would be more or less effective had it been taken with my KEYone, my Z10, or my Nikon DSLR.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10562251)]

You're talking abstracts. In the real world, in good light, there are only minor differences in the way photos are processed between my Z10 and the newest iPhone. There are differences, and the iPhone is infinitely more capable overall, but the algorithms are based on research done more than a decade ago, and the sensors aren't that different in performance under those conditions.

In fact, I post plenty of social media photos taken with my Z10, but I generally do it from my PC, so that I can batch and schedule the postings across many accounts (primarily Twitter and LinkedIn) using Web-based tools that coordinate our marketing messages.

You honestly sound to me like a tech enthusiast who thinks newer and more expensive is always better for everything. I'm more practical. My measure of whether a social media photos is "better" is whether it generates more engagement that translates into sales and profit.

In a photo like the one in question, there is almost zero chance that the photo would be more or less effective had it been taken with my KEYone, my Z10, or my Nikon DSLR.

Posted with my trusty Z10

OK, sure. And using a Z10 to take photos and post to social media in 2018 isn't an abstract concept? It certainly is to me. But thanks for bringing me back to the"real world" all the same.

[bb10adopter111]

OK, sure. And using a Z10 to take photos and post to social media in 2018 isn't an abstract concept? It certainly is to me. But thanks for bringing me back to the"real world" all the same.

I have never suggested that a Z10 from 2013 is what most people use or want in 2019. Specifically, I've said in many forums that, If posting to social media IN REAL TIME is important, it's silly to use any BB10 phone because the app integrations simply don't exist.

But to pretend that any difference between a new iPhone camera and any decent photo of the same resolution taken on a decent phone from the past 5 years in good lighting with no movement actually MATTERS in a measurable way is hard to defend, IMO.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[bb10adopter111]

You are really ridiculous if you think that Bryan Palma uses BlackBerry UEM with his iPhone .. he is simply using his iPhone because he likes it and there is nothing to add. Everyone on the subject thinks what they want. I think that being CEO BlackBerry would do well to use a device with the BlackBerry brand. You think it's nice to use an iphone for the reasons you said. Best wishes.

Posted with the wonderful physical keyboard of Key2

Sorry for my english, but I'm italian and I'm not fluent in english.

So, you're suggesting that BlackBerry, a leading enterprise cybersecurity firm, doesn't use its own endpoint management tools???? Do you think they just use a wide open BYOD model with no controls in place?

Please explain what you mean, or perhaps you don't understand what BlackBerry UEM actually is?

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10387168)]

BlackBerry Limited time exited hardware business months ago.

Current BlackBerry smartphones are from a different company.

Yes correct. I believe we are discussing Brand Promotion/ Loyalty and Public Perception here rather than manufacturing origin, which is altogether a very different animal. Cheers,

[bb10adopter111]

Yes correct. I believe we are discussing Brand Promotion/ Loyalty and Public Perception here rather than manufacturing origin, which is altogether a very different animal. Cheers,

So, let's summarize that: The general public, who still associates the BlackBerry Brand with mobile handsets, even though BlackBerry exited that business years ago, might be confused to see the new BlackBerry COO using an iPhone. But, in reality, it's a perfect illustration of BlackBerry's actual business priorities in 2019.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10387168)]

So, let's summarize that: The general public, who still associates the BlackBerry Brand with mobile handsets, even though BlackBerry exited that business years ago, might be confused to see the new BlackBerry COO using an iPhone. But, in reality, it's a perfect illustration of BlackBerry's actual business priorities in 2019.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Well, that is a different way to look at it. Cheers,

[Bbnivende]

So, let's summarize that: The general public, who still associates the BlackBerry Brand with mobile handsets, even though BlackBerry exited that business years ago, might be confused to see the new BlackBerry COO using an iPhone. But, in reality, it's a perfect illustration of BlackBerry's actual business priorities in 2019.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Yes, I would not be surprised if BlackBerry takes back its brand at the end of the current agreement. Could see BlackBerry Secure and or the licensing of the PKB instead.

[the_boon]

Yes, I would not be surprised if BlackBerry takes back its brand at the end of the current agreement. Could see BlackBerry Secure and or the licensing of the PKB instead.

The question is, which mainstream OEM would be interested in paying BB ltd licensing fees to produce a PKB smartphone ?

[Jake2826]

The picture was taken on one of his introduction days to the company. His BlackBerry Key2 was issued to him on day 2. Everyone needs to relax.

And yes, of course BlackBerry issues BlackBerry devices and not Iphones, Samsungs or Motorolas. C'mon people! I'm sorry, but anyone who thought that is just plain silly. Hahaha.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yes, I would not be surprised if BlackBerry takes back its brand at the end of the current agreement. Could see BlackBerry Secure and or the licensing of the PKB instead.

To what end? I’ve always surmised the licensing of the BB name has been more about establishing carrier, enterprise and government relations in the West than about simply building a phone hardware business.

Of all the “mainland communist nations based” OEM brands and subsidiaries, what OEM has lowest negative perception right now? Which of those same OEMs is selling prepaid and postpaid hardware in USA carriers right now?

[Bla1ze]

I mean, if you're really on the hunt.. you should look for BlackBerry Mobile employees and leaders using an iPhone...but it's such a 'whatever' thing at this point.

[nbaliga]

...but it's such a 'whatever' thing at this point.

You hit the nail on the head.

[stlabrat]

well, if he is using the latest beta iOS, it got some 5G feature in it. That will make sense. However, not sure if he is technically capable as software tester (might be in market tester, but not initial tester). who knows.

[Bbnivende]

I

To what end? I’ve always surmised the licensing of the BB name has been more about establishing carrier, enterprise and government relations in the West than about simply building a phone hardware business.

Of all the “mainland communist nations based” OEM brands and subsidiaries, what OEM has lowest negative perception right now? Which of those same OEMs is selling prepaid and postpaid hardware in USA carriers right now?

TCL has put their own R and D money into an Android PKB design. If they can lower their royalties they could add features and or lower the sales price. The alternative is to get out of the PKB business and cut their losses. Hard to say what will happen. I still think that Mr. Chen would rather be 100% in the security of things business.

“Communist China” - yes, the real China is on display as is the real Saudi Arabia. Not sure about the USA.

[bb10adopter111]

I

TCL has put their own R and D money into an Android PKB design. If they can lower their royalties they could add features and or lower the sales price. The alternative is to get out of the PKB business and cut their losses. Hard to say what will happen. I still think that Mr. Chen would rather be 100% in the security of things business.

“Communist China” - yes, the real China is on display as is the real Saudi Arabia. Not sure about the USA.

I think.its important to recognize that, for both TCL and BlackBerry Limited, the BlackBerry Mobile experiment is a small part of the larger companies, both in terms of expenses and profits or losses. It might be very important to some of us, but neither company would suffer greatly if the experiment fails. On the other hand, if it succeeds, it could have a great return on investment for relative small investment by both companies, though it would still be a small percentage of revenue.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Bbnivende]

I think.its important to recognize that, for both TCL and BlackBerry Limited, the BlackBerry Mobile experiment is a small part of the larger companies, both in terms of expenses and profits or losses. It might be very important to some of us, but neither company would suffer greatly if the experiment fails. On the other hand, if it succeeds, it could have a great return on investment for relative small investment by both companies, though it would still be a small percentage of revenue.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Except that TCL has large factories that used to produce twice as many phones. They were thinking of millions not a million. They need to follow the pattern set by their TV business ( which seems to have hit a wall lately) of high performance low price. TCL is not a niche type of company like Punkt or Bullitt.

With respect to BlackBerry, they were hoping to monetize the investment they had already made in the PRIV software and in BlackBerry Secure and their PKB tech. This type revenue is gravy and its loss would be affect the bottom line. BlackBerry itself probably needs to invest in R&D or more acquisitions or they too will stall.

You say “if it fails” - I think from both companies perspective, the experiment has not been a success based on initial hopes and expectations however I think the experiment has been a success for PKB fans.

We certainly cannot fault TCL, they are trying to make a go of it.

[stlabrat]

Bbnivende,you have some interesting perspective. TCL just sort of get their feet wet in the PKB - slow learner in my opinion (compare to many other CM that made handsets for BB in the past) based on K1 launch (screen fall off, KB issue, including space bar). Those are extra cost (when you try to fix a fault in market, rather than caught those MFG fault during testing) especially regarding the lost of market, harm of brand (Both BB, BBMo, TCL) and bottom line. I would expect to take longer to reach break even or profit. if TCL still got chinese Gorilla warfair (fire a shot gun and change place) mentality, to recover from their mistake will eventually doom them sooner or later. IMHO.

[anon(10562251)]

But to pretend that any difference between a new iPhone camera and any decent photo of the same resolution taken on a decent phone from the past 5 years in good lighting with no movement actually MATTERS in a measurable way is hard to defend, IMO.

Posted with my trusty Z10

That's all that MATTERS to you, when the only metric worthy of consideration is image resolution.

Go ahead, proceed to write off the untold millions invested in other aspects of smartphone camera technology (outside your exceedingly low expectations) that have been advanced in the past five years, that you claim have no impact on image quality - chipset features, AI, camera optics, image processing, etc - all claimed by you to be meaningless improvements even for the simplist of photos (which, by the way, is the main reason those investments were made in the first place).

Once again, pure ignorance.

[jagrlover]

[QUOTE

And yes, of course BlackBerry issues BlackBerry devices and not Iphones, Samsungs or Motorolas. C'mon people! I'm sorry, but anyone who thought that is just plain silly. Hahaha.[/QUOTE]


This is not true.

[bb10adopter111]

That's all that MATTERS to you, when the only metric worthy of consideration is image resolution.

Go ahead, proceed to write off the untold millions invested in other aspects of smartphone camera technology (outside your exceedingly low expectations) that have been advanced in the past five years, that you claim have no impact on image quality - chipset features, AI, camera optics, image processing, etc - all claimed by you to be meaningless improvements even for the simplist of photos (which, by the way, is the main reason those investments were made in the first place).

Once again, pure ignorance.

Despite your assertions, I don't think of myself as ignorant of camera technology. I was a VP of operations for one of world's largest television networks from 2004-7, and led the technology strategy team for a company that uses drone mounted cameras to study transportation systems from the air. I've attended the Image Sensors and Imaging Systems conference in three of the past five years. (http://www.image-sensors.org/next.php)

Honestly, most of the advances in phone camera systems you cite (with the exception of the AI used to sense the object of interest and choose appropriate camera settings) are simply miniaturizations of preexisting technology, readily available on most decent DSLRs, and have absolutely nothing to do with the one photo we're discussing in this forum. My whole point is that AI, better sensors, and all the other technology in today's best phones are much more effective in marginal conditions than they are in well-lit photos of people taken from a few feet away.

You seem to completely miss that I agree with you that the best phone-based camera systems are amazing, and that my old Z10 doesn't have a lot of those new technologies. But you seem to think that it should MATTER all the time, and it simply doesn't in the real world for most business scenarios.

You also seem naive about the fact that a lot of that tech is driven by marketers who are adding features to phones as fast as they can to maintain their pricing and market position, and is of questionable value for lots of standard scenarios. That works because many people with money to spend on phones just want "the best" without bothering to assess how that will actually impact their particular use case.

Anyone who needs to post images to social media in real time, or who needs to have confidence that snapshots taken in marginal conditions are going to be decent or better most of the time should absolutely look hard at and seriously consider buying the advanced camera systems in today's best phones, but they should also be using a professional quality DSLR a lot of the time.

Regardless, the photo that is the topic of this thread is a simple snapshot that would almost certainly have accomplished the same commercial purpose regardless of the camera system used.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10562251)]

Despite your assertions, I don't think of myself as ignorant of camera technology. I was a VP of operations for one of world's largest television networks from 2004-7, and led the technology strategy team for a company that uses drone mounted cameras to study transportation systems from the air. I've attended the Image Sensors and Imaging Systems conference in three of the past five years. (Image Sensors and Imaging Systems Conference)

Honestly, most of the advances in phone camera systems you cite (with the exception of the AI used to sense the object of interest and choose appropriate camera settings) are simply miniaturizations of preexisting technology, readily available on most decent DSLRs, and have absolutely nothing to do with the one photo we're discussing in this forum. My whole point is that AI, better sensors, and all the other technology in today's best phones are much more effective in marginal conditions than they are in well-lit photos of people taken from a few feet away.

You seem to completely miss that I agree with you that the best phone-based camera systems are amazing, and that my old Z10 doesn't have a lot of those new technologies. But you seem to think that it should MATTER all the time, and it simply doesn't in the real world for most business scenarios.

You also seem naive about the fact that a lot of that tech is driven by marketers who are adding features to phones as fast as they can to maintain their pricing and market position, and is of questionable value for lots of standard scenarios. That works because many people with money to spend on phones just want "the best" without bothering to assess how that will actually impact their particular use case.

Anyone who needs to post images to social media in real time, or who needs to have confidence that snapshots taken in marginal conditions are going to be decent or better most of the time should absolutely look hard at and seriously consider buying the advanced camera systems in today's best phones, but they should also be using a professional quality DSLR a lot of the time.

Regardless, the photo that is the topic of this thread is a simple snapshot that would almost certainly have accomplished the same commercial purpose regardless of the camera system used.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Actually, those things I cited earlier have everything to do with it, because its exactly the precision, quality, and execution of those things that make one smartphone camera so much better than another, and the smartphone cameras of today better than the ones from 5 years ago.

I have myself been disappointed enough times to recognize the clear and obvious drawbacks to relying on a BlackBerry smartphone camera in ANY situation.

So long is there is no such thing as "perfect" lighting where your subject can maintain a statuesque pose long enough to obtain a clear shot from a cheap camera, there is never an excuse for someone who VALUES THEIR TIME to waste money on garbage. Whether you are taking photographs for "commercial purposes" or a snapshot of your shoelaces.

But don't let me stop you. You are entitled to be a contrarian for whatever reasons you choose, even if it only serves to undermine your (self-professed) credibility.

[Chuck Finley69]

Actually, those things I cited earlier have everything to do with it, because its exactly the precision, quality, and execution of those things that make one smartphone camera so much better than another, and the smartphone cameras of today better than the ones from 5 years ago.

I have myself been disappointed enough times to recognize the clear and obvious drawbacks to relying on a BlackBerry smartphone camera in ANY situation.

So long is there is no such thing as "perfect" lighting where your subject can maintain a statuesque pose long enough to obtain a clear shot from a cheap camera, there is never an excuse for someone who VALUES THEIR TIME to waste money on garbage. Whether you are taking photographs for "commercial purposes" or a snapshot of your shoelaces.

But don't let me stop you. You are entitled to be a contrarian for whatever reasons you choose, even if it only serves to undermine your (self-professed) credibility.

But many people like myself don’t need the extra level capabilities you’re referring too. For my use level, even the Key hardware is overkill...