[Chuck Finley69]

The market has verified the actions of TCL / Blackberry that this is not how to run a business because if you can fool several thousand people, a few million will not be anymore and for this they have not been successful in sales because people see and analyze whether the price is adequate to the product offered how much you can catch a BB fan on the weak components is not important, so users of other brands no longer because others have a different point of view of what they are offered, for example, key2 medium quality components price as for a phone with high-end components + no upgrade to newer Android = flap on sale. If someone has the opportunity to buy a phone for 900 USD with high components and to buy a phone with medium-sized components but with the price of 900 USD then probably the first market will be verified by TCL / Blackberry.

The point was it was attempted in the best possible scenario. There wasn’t any better plan or solutions available that would have resulted in BBMo/TCL successful results. It was the only viable plan and it was a long shot.

[Luniz]

The point was it was attempted in the best possible scenario. There wasn’t any better plan or solutions available that would have resulted in BBMo/TCL successful results. It was the only viable plan and it was a long shot.

Such plays are good for small players who are not counted on sales success like Unihertz mid-range equipment for not a high price but if you count on success in sales then there can be equipment from the middle half and the price from a high half because people catch it.

[Chuck Finley69]

Such plays are good for small players who are not counted on sales success like Unihertz mid-range equipment for not a high price but if you count on success in sales then there can be equipment from the middle half and the price from a high half because people catch it.

So then BBMo was doomed from the very day it was thought of. When BB left the business in 2016, there was zero chance for success.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The point was it was attempted in the best possible scenario. There wasn’t any better plan or solutions available that would have resulted in BBMo/TCL successful results. It was the only viable plan and it was a long shot.

Yeah the idea that TCL would suddenly build OnePlus phones (quality and price) and would invest an easy billion in brand repair for another brand... was silly. But many here taught they would do all that back in 2016. TCL on the other hand just taught that there was a market of four or five million enterprise users that needed BlackBerry. Giving them a solid 2+ million units a year in sales with little to no real effort or investment.

Maybe if TCL had taken over for the first Android phone..... might have been enough enterprise users hanging around in 2015, but by 2017 they were gone. Or if pigs could fly, chicken wings would be a thing of the past.

[conite]

Such plays are good for small players who are not counted on sales success like Unihertz mid-range equipment for not a high price but if you count on success in sales then there can be equipment from the middle half and the price from a high half because people catch it.

Despite all of the tertiary arguments, just be happy that TCL (somehow) managed to make the best pkb device ever, imo.

[Luniz]

Despite all of the tertiary arguments, just be happy that TCL (somehow) managed to make the best pkb device ever, imo.

It was fun to use KeyOne and Key2 and key2 Red but is it the best? rather for me, Passport was the best phone with a physical keyboard and without two sentences, unless you consider it for the best phone with a physical keyboard on Android.

[Luniz]

So then BBMo was doomed from the very day it was thought of. When BB left the business in 2016, there was zero chance for success.

If they didn't believe in success, why did they release these models under the sign of BB?

[conite]

If they didn't believe in success, why did they release these models under the sign of BB?

Hope and results are two different things.

[Chuck Finley69]

If they didn't believe in success, why did they release these models under the sign of BB?

TCL believed the BB name still had some positive value. Apparently not.

[bb10adopter111]

Despite all of the tertiary arguments, just be happy that TCL (somehow) managed to make the best pkb device ever, imo.

I really have no complaints about the effort by TCL/BlackBerry Mobile, given the risk involved. I wish they had invested a little bit more in repositioning/rehabilitating the brand and had managed to launch a slab with US carriers, because I'm sure that was the original plan, but I certainly have no complaints about the design and build quality of my KEYone.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[howarmat]

I really have no complaints about the effort by TCL/BlackBerry Mobile, given the risk involved. I wish they had invested a little bit more in repositioning/rehabilitating the brand and had managed to launch a slab with US carriers, because I'm sure that was the original.plan, but no have no complaints about the design and build quality of my KEYone.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

I think most normal people would agree. CB isnt normal, its a bunch of crackheads lol

[the_boon]

Despite all of the tertiary arguments, just be happy that TCL (somehow) managed to make the best pkb device ever, imo.

I'd put the KEY2 in a close tie with the Priv.

The former has the far better performance and keyboard (for the most part) but the latter has an amazingly genius form factor and durable build considering the complexity.

[RLeeSimon]

BlackBerry is a failure. they abandon customers. I don't really see why any entity chooses to do business with them.

[howarmat]

BlackBerry is a failure. they abandon customers. I don't really see why any entity chooses to do business with them.

ha, they abandoned no one. They literally almost bankrupt the company to try and give people what they wanted.

[the_boon]

ha, they abandoned no one. They literally almost bankrupt the company to try and give people what they wanted.

I don't think TCL/BBMo was nearly as bad financially in 2019 after having given us the KEY2/LE as BB Ltd was after having dumped billions on BB10.

[howarmat]

I don't think TCL/BBMo was nearly as bad financially in 2019 after having given us the KEY2/LE as BB Ltd was after having dumped billions on BB10.

Of course not! Never said anything about BlackBerry Mobile and their financials. I only said that BlackBerry ran the company to the ground basically trying to give users devices to keep the brand going. They brought out BB10, then BBAndroid and then even sold naming rights and their software. BlackBerry did everything a company could do pretty much do and it just didn't work out.

[the_boon]

Of course not! Never said anything about BlackBerry Mobile and their financials. I only said that BlackBerry ran the company to the ground basically trying to give users devices to keep the brand going.

But consumers never really asked for BB10, BlackBerry just thought that a third and secure OS was necessary for enterprise etc etc.

That's why I keep saying that had the KEYone come out in 2012 (and then steady incremental upgrades of that form factor), then things would have gone down very, very differently for the mobile division of BB.

But even something as obvious as this gets refuted by some people here.

[conite]

But consumers never really asked for BB10, BlackBerry just thought that a third and secure OS was necessary for enterprise etc etc.

That's why I keep saying that had the KEYone come out in 2012 (and then steady incremental upgrades of that form factor), then things would have gone down very, very differently for the mobile division of BB.

But even something as obvious as this gets refuted by some people here.

It's not obvious. Android was a nightmare in 2012.


It would have obliterated any notion of BlackBerry's security credentials - which is the entire basis of its operations today.

I think if they had gone that route, they wouldn't even exist today.

[howarmat]

It's not obvious. Android was a nightmare in 2012.


It would have obliterated any notion of BlackBerry's security credentials - which is the entire basis of its operations today.

I think if they had gone that route, they wouldn't even exist today.

Did google even have monthly updates back then?

I agree 2012 android would have been a huge undertaking to get "secured" like it is today. Sure it would have been nice to just BOOM have android on a Key series device but many BBOS fans would have never considered that kind of a jump IMO and would have been just as bad as bb10.

Now if they have been working with android since 2010 along with Google it might be different. But that is an alternative reality that we will never know.

[the_boon]

I agree 2012 android would have been a huge undertaking to get "secured" like it is today.

Couldn't have been more costly than developing BB10 from the ground-up

but many BBOS fans would have never considered that kind of a jump IMO and would have been just as bad as bb10.

This doesn't really make sense considering that the number 1 reason people left their BBOS devices in droves was app compatibility/availability.

[conite]

Couldn't have been more costly than developing BB10 from the ground-up


This doesn't really make sense considering that the number 1 reason people left their BBOS devices in droves was app compatibility/availability.

It wasn't even possible. No way Google certification could have been maintained with the level of development necessary to secure Android (even partially) in 2012. And without certification, you're back to where you started.

[bb10adopter111]

But consumers never really asked for BB10, BlackBerry just thought that a third and secure OS was necessary for enterprise etc etc.

That's why I keep saying that had the KEYone come out in 2012 (and then steady incremental upgrades of that form factor), then things would have gone down very, very differently for the mobile division of BB.

But even something as obvious as this gets refuted by some people here.

BlackBerry designed BB10 to meet the needs of its enterprise IT partners first, and consumers second. It was aimed at retaining what was still a healthy market share. I don't b think they ever thought they would compete with Android, with its "free" OS subsidized by Google and huge consumer electronics OEMs.

As an OEM chasing the consumer, BlackBerry never stood a chance unless they'd partnered with Google before Google bought Android or with Microsoft every sooner.


Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[howarmat]

Couldn't have been more costly than developing BB10 from the ground-up


This doesn't really make sense considering that the number 1 reason people left their BBOS devices in droves was app compatibility/availability.

Honestly i wasnt even talking cost. Just he magnitude of programming that would have been needed to overhaul to safe BB/Govn standards.

[Luniz]

Did google even have monthly updates back then?

I agree 2012 android would have been a huge undertaking to get "secured" like it is today. Sure it would have been nice to just BOOM have android on a Key series device but many BBOS fans would have never considered that kind of a jump IMO and would have been just as bad as bb10.

Now if they have been working with android since 2010 along with Google it might be different. But that is an alternative reality that we will never know.

For me, the BB10 would have a chance if it were released a few years earlier when Android was in its infancy the same iOS Appla focused too long on Bolds etc ... the same error they did in Nokia where they focused on Symbian they made millions of different models until they came to the wall later bad decisions where they entered the cost of Microsoft and it was a nail in the casket of Nokia, maybe otherwise the fate would roll as if Nokia would focus on the Meego system but we will not find out we only know that as well as Blackberry their competitors were so confident of their success that they did not notice that two Android and iOS systems are slowly biting them from the market.

[Chuck Finley69]

But consumers never really asked for BB10, BlackBerry just thought that a third and secure OS was necessary for enterprise etc etc.

That's why I keep saying that had the KEYone come out in 2012 (and then steady incremental upgrades of that form factor), then things would have gone down very, very differently for the mobile division of BB.

But even something as obvious as this gets refuted by some people here.

Had the KEYone come out in 2009-2010 just running Android but not as replacement to Bold 9000 and been sold alongside, 9600, 9700, 9900 successors running BBOS would have allowed early Android success with the maintainability of BIS revenue. Transition still would still happen to VKB ala 9850/9860 but allowed for better VKB brand acceptance for consumers new to smartphones. It would have lessened toxicity of PKB and BlackBerry synonymously in minds of consumers and past users from previous image branding towards business people.

That said, what happened to Motorola and it’s original Droid or HTC and One legacy. Both ended up purchased by Google and fared no better than BlackBerry does now. We’d still be in the same place as now since BlackBerry never enjoyed any other economic resources. Basically, with BBOS and BIS or BES, the BlackBerry smartphone was like an 80s one hit wonder chasing that second hit.