[Luniz]

So safe this Android that we still have ACI448 from December, and we already have March and a phone for $ 700, and where are these monthly updates?

I am curious why Blackberry does nothing in this direction because you can see that TCL has beautifully defamed the image of Blackberry by taking money for phones with the Blackberry logo and denying to customers it has been nicely damaged by the Blackberry image and Blackberry is silent.

[Matt J]

There will likely be no more updates for any BlackBerry-branded device. You will probably be stuck on the December update moving forward. Let's face it, the KEY2 is on Oreo 8.1 and Android 11 will be rolling out this year. I got the Galaxy Note 10+ and am getting updates monthly... it's time to move on.

[Chuck Finley69]

So safe this Android that we still have ACI448 from December, and we already have March and a phone for $ 700, and where are these monthly updates?

I am curious why Blackberry does nothing in this direction because you can see that TCL has beautifully defamed the image of Blackberry by taking money for phones with the Blackberry logo and denying to customers it has been nicely damaged by the Blackberry image and Blackberry is silent.

I’d suppose it’s because TCL and BlackBerry Limited broke up and got divorced. It’s always hardest on the children....

[whatnow00]

TCL lies. They're an incompetent company.

[Luniz]

I’d suppose it’s because TCL and BlackBerry Limited broke up and got divorced. It’s always hardest on the children....

Yes, but who is injured first? We customers what left money for KeyOne Key2 etc ... where we stayed with the device without support for updates etc ... then the image of Blackberry is tarnished once again because the phones did not have a TCL image only Blackberry so Blackberry should do something to improve it clients' credibility should even take on their shoulders updates and system upgrades on key2 unless both units themselves wanted to screw their clients and that's it.

[Luniz]

There will likely be no more updates for any BlackBerry-branded device. You will probably be stuck on the December update moving forward. Let's face it, the KEY2 is on Oreo 8.1 and Android 11 will be rolling out this year. I got the Galaxy Note 10+ and am getting updates monthly... it's time to move on.

Well, I'm going on or waiting for Unihertz Titan and Blackberry Key2 and Key2 Red are forgotten.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yes, but who is injured first? We customers what left money for KeyOne Key2 etc ... where we stayed with the device without support for updates etc ... then the image of Blackberry is tarnished once again because the phones did not have a TCL image only Blackberry so Blackberry should do something to improve it clients' credibility should even take on their shoulders updates and system upgrades on key2 unless both units themselves wanted to screw their clients and that's it.

Why BlackBerry Limited doesn’t care about mobile? BlackBerry Limited exited mobile over three years ago to absolve themselves from all liabilities.

[Luniz]

Why BlackBerry Limited doesn’t care about mobile? BlackBerry Limited exited mobile over three years ago to absolve themselves from all liabilities.

And who has TCL signed a contract with for producing keyboards with the Blackberry logo?

[Chuck Finley69]

And who has TCL signed a contract with for producing keyboards with the Blackberry logo?

I’m assuming you meant PKB hardware and not just PKBs themselves. Why does that matter?!? BlackBerry Limited chose to exit the mobile business so as not to deal with consumers anymore

[Luniz]

I’m assuming you meant PKB hardware and not just PKBs themselves. Why does that matter?!? BlackBerry Limited chose to exit the mobile business so as not to deal with consumers anymore

You did not answer the question with whom TCL concluded a contract on the production of phones with a physical keyboard and with the Blackberry Logo? or not with Blackberry or John Chen?

[conite]

You did not answer the question with whom TCL concluded a contract on the production of phones with a physical keyboard and with the Blackberry Logo? or not with Blackberry or John Chen?

TCL entered into a licencing agreement with BlackBerry Limited. This contract allows them the use of BlackBerry's name and BlackBerry's phone IP. BlackBerry's only ongoing responsibility is to assist with software updates when paid to do so.

On another note, TCL explicitly made a promise to provide one letter upgrade and 24 months of patching for the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and Motion, which they delivered. No such explicit promise was made for the KEY² and KEY² LE.

TCL has apparently decided not to engage BlackBerry to assist with any more patches after Dec 2019, but will continue to provide technical support for its BlackBerry-branded products until Aug 2022.

[Luniz]

TCL entered into a licencing agreement with BlackBerry Limited. This contract allows them the use of BlackBerry's name and BlackBerry's phone IP. BlackBerry's only ongoing responsibility is to assist with software updates when paid to do so.

On another note, TCL explicitly made a promise to provide one letter upgrade and 24 months of patching for the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and Motion, which they delivered. No such explicit promise was made for the KEY² and KEY² LE.

TCL has apparently decided not to engage BlackBerry to assist with any more patches after Dec 2019, but will continue to provide technical support for its BlackBerry-branded products until Aug 2022.

So I understand that Key2 and Key2 red customers have been made into a balloon since there are neither monthly patches nor even Blackberry Limited applications are being developed, i.e. two TCL and Blackberry limited units silently abandoned their project.

Abandoning Blackberry Limited application development
Abandoning the upgrade of Key2 and Key2 phones
Abandonment of monthly patches.

So 700 dollars went down the drain.

[conite]

So I understand that Key2 and Key2 red customers have been made into a balloon since there are neither monthly patches nor even Blackberry Limited applications are being developed, i.e. two TCL and Blackberry limited units silently abandoned their project.

Abandoning Blackberry Limited application development
Abandoning the upgrade of Key2 and Key2 phones
Abandonment of monthly patches.

So 700 dollars went down the drain.

KEY² got 19 months of patches instead of the expected (but not promised) 24 months - that is true.

But that doesn't mean the device needs to be washed down the drain. It still has a hardened kernel, BlackBerry Integrity detection, and Play Protect. Plus, Oreo will be supported for many years to come.

[Luniz]

KEY² got 19 months of patches instead of the expected (but not promised) 24 months - that is true.

But that doesn't mean the device needs to be washed down the drain. It still has a hardened kernel, BlackBerry Integrity detection, and Play Protect. Plus, Oreo will be supported for many years to come.

And why can't they give their customers what they want, i.e. upgrade to Android 9 or 10? let's be honest it wasn't small money for Key2 and key2 red which customers left money for each of these devices.

[howarmat]

And why can't they give their customers what they want, i.e. upgrade to Android 9 or 10? let's be honest it wasn't small money for Key2 and key2 red which customers left money for each of these devices.

whose gonna pay them?

[Luniz]

whose gonna pay them?

And where is the money from Key2 with Key2 red with Keyone etc ...

[howarmat]

And where is the money from Key2 with Key2 red with Keyone etc ...

Its pretty good bet TCL lost money on the key2 line as it is with its very weak sales.

[Troy Tiscareno]

And where is the money from Key2 with Key2 red with Keyone etc ...

Sales of the phones have been so low that TCL is losing money on every phone. That's because they have fixed costs that have to be spread across the phones they do sell.

Think of it this way: a McDonalds has to sell 2,000 burgers every day to cover its overhead (rent, insurance, utilities, labor, franchise fees, etc.). If it sells 3,000 burgers a day, the owners will be doing pretty well. But if this store only sells 1,000 burgers a day, then once you subtract food costs and overhead, the store will take a loss, which means that in order to continue, the owners have to pay the difference out of their own savings. Essentially, they're paying their own money to keep the store open. Someone might do that for a short time, if they believe they can get sales back up and start making profits again, but if sales continue to fall, they're going to close that McDonalds and walk away, even if that means a big one-time loss - because continuing to invest money won't prevent that same one-time loss, but it will also burn up lots of additional money.

The same is true for TCL. TCL needed to sell about 2M BB-branded phones per year in order to make the licensing plan work. The first year, they sold 660k phones (about 1/3 of what they needed to sell), and the second year, they sold 335k (about 1/6 of necessary sales), and with projected sales to be down further in year 3. That means not only hasn't TCL made a penny in profit, they've instead lost millions of dollars. Can anyone be surprised that they didn't want to continue to lose more and more money every year?

They pulled the plug. When that happens, any previous plans are scrapped, and any customers are out of luck. That's the risk you take buying from a struggling company - which is one reason why government and enterprise hasn't been buying BB phones for years, and why they typically stick to buying from market leaders - the market leaders are far more likely to still be in the business 5 years down the road.

You should always buy a product based on what it does TODAY, and not what you hope it will do in the future. We all buy phones hoping for future updates, but if you aren't buying from a market leader, we all know that we're taking a risk of not getting those updates, and with BB's situation (leaving the business after massive losses and licensing out the name), you have to know that you're taking a far bigger risk of being abandoned, and that's exactly what happened.

[Luniz]

Its pretty good bet TCL lost money on the key2 line as it is with its very weak sales.

And tell me what does this unit care about? who cares about the customer who bought Key2 and spent a lot on the phone with the BB logo, such Unihertz can provide Android 9 and a company such as TCL + BB Limited cannot provide an upgrade of one model to Android 9.

[Luniz]

Sales of the phones have been so low that TCL is losing money on every phone. That's because they have fixed costs that have to be spread across the phones they do sell.

Think of it this way: a McDonalds has to sell 2,000 burgers every day to cover its overhead (rent, insurance, utilities, labor, franchise fees, etc.). If it sells 3,000 burgers a day, the owners will be doing pretty well. But if this store only sells 1,000 burgers a day, then once you subtract food costs and overhead, the store will take a loss, which means that in order to continue, the owners have to pay the difference out of their own savings. Essentially, they're paying their own money to keep the store open. Someone might do that for a short time, if they believe they can get sales back up and start making profits again, but if sales continue to fall, they're going to close that McDonalds and walk away, even if that means a big one-time loss - because continuing to invest money won't prevent that same one-time loss, but it will also burn up lots of additional money.

The same is true for TCL. TCL needed to sell about 2M BB-branded phones per year in order to make the licensing plan work. The first year, they sold 660k phones (about 1/3 of what they needed to sell), and the second year, they sold 335k (about 1/6 of necessary sales), and with projected sales to be down further in year 3. That means not only hasn't TCL made a penny in profit, they've instead lost millions of dollars. Can anyone be surprised that they didn't want to continue to lose more and more money every year?

They pulled the plug. When that happens, any previous plans are scrapped, and any customers are out of luck. That's the risk you take buying from a struggling company - which is one reason why government and enterprise hasn't been buying BB phones for years, and why they typically stick to buying from market leaders - the market leaders are far more likely to still be in the business 5 years down the road.

You should always buy a product based on what it does TODAY, and not what you hope it will do in the future. We all buy phones hoping for future updates, but if you aren't buying from a market leader, we all know that we're taking a risk of not getting those updates, and with BB's situation (leaving the business after massive losses and licensing out the name), you have to know that you're taking a far bigger risk of being abandoned, and that's exactly what happened.

But tell me what the customer cares if someone had a poor promotion of their product and they have losses?
Did someone say to the customer when buying that it was a risk?
Why should a client be injured for poor marketing of TCL + BB Limited?

[joeldf]

But tell me what the customer cares if someone had a poor promotion of their product and they have losses?
Did someone say to the customer when buying that it was a risk?
Why should a client be injured for poor marketing of TCL + BB Limited?

You can complain all you want, but it won't change anything. You're still SOL.

The company cares no more about you personally than you do about their miscalculations.

[Luniz]

You can complain all you want, but it won't change anything. You're still SOL.

The company cares no more about you personally than you do about their miscalculations.

If the company does not care about customers, I now know why the company suffered losses.

[bb10adopter111]

And tell me what does this unit care about? who cares about the customer who bought Key2 and spent a lot on the phone with the BB logo, such Unihertz can provide Android 9 and a company such as TCL + BB Limited cannot provide an upgrade of one model to Android 9.

Caveat Emptor.

That's Latin for "Buyer Beware" and it ALWAYS applies. TCL delivered everything it was legally obligated to provide for the KEY2 phones. If you expected more and are disappointed, that's your responsibility, not TCL/ BlackBerry Mobile's or BlackBerry Limted's.

Your expectations that you would get more patches than were promised was very reasonable, but it's not at all enforceable. If long-term support is your primary requirement, buy Apple or Google phones, as they will always get the most OS support.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[Luniz]

Caveat Emptor.

That's Latin for "Buyer Beware" and it ALWAYS applies. TCL delivered everything it was legally obligated to provide for the KEY2 phones. If you expected more and are disappointed, that's your responsibility, not TCL/ BlackBerry Mobile's or BlackBerry Limted's.

Your expectations that you would get more patches than were promised was very reasonable, but it's not at all enforceable. If long-term support is your primary requirement, buy Apple or Google phones, as they will always get the most OS support.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

I will not roll around the same thing I will say only so much KeyOne got the upgrade to the newer version of Android and Key2 did not and that is what I mean.

[bb10adopter111]

I will not roll around the same thing I will say only so much KeyOne got the upgrade to the newer version of Android and Key2 did not and that is what I mean.

I am very sorry you were disappointed, truly. We all hoped that TCL would succeed and that BlackBerry phones would continue to be available and supported.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android