1. AhabSnake's Avatar
    My daily boring job in retail, the only redeeming factor is everyay some one sees my key2 red edition, and their eyes light up. I get all happy talking to them about it. There are those who are fond of the old blackberry days, many don't know the key1/2 exists, and people who aren't familiar with blackberry at all but intrigued of the physcial keyboard on a phone. Internally i bleed a litttle knowing there is a market for these devices yet we are left without one...
    Kamen Ivanov1 and CukeJr like this.
    03-20-23 07:05 AM
  2. Ph1llip's Avatar
    Internally i bleed a litttle knowing there is a market for these devices yet we are left without one...
    Sadly, you're mistaken, there's no "market" for a keyboard phone. If there was, a mainstream manufacturer would be making them.
    03-20-23 07:34 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    My daily boring job in retail, the only redeeming factor is everyay some one sees my key2 red edition, and their eyes light up. I get all happy talking to them about it. There are those who are fond of the old blackberry days, many don't know the key1/2 exists, and people who aren't familiar with blackberry at all but intrigued of the physcial keyboard on a phone. Internally i bleed a litttle knowing there is a market for these devices yet we are left without one...
    Yeah if there was a big enough market... TCL would have kept making them.

    Every new PKB phone sold fewer units than the last one. Now some here blamed the lack of marketing, but the reality is once you get under a million units... there isn't much money for marketing. People can look back fondly on the past, but that doesn't mean they really want to go back to those days.
    03-20-23 07:49 AM
  4. AhabSnake's Avatar
    Yeah if there was a big enough market... TCL would have kept making them.

    Every new PKB phone sold fewer units than the last one. Now some here blamed the lack of marketing, but the reality is once you get under a million units... there isn't much money for marketing. People can look back fondly on the past, but that doesn't mean they really want to go back to those days.
    could easily have sold 10 million. No one knew about these phones.
    03-20-23 08:49 AM
  5. AhabSnake's Avatar
    Sadly, you're mistaken, there's no "market" for a keyboard phone. If there was, a mainstream manufacturer would be making them.
    So why is there a market for every other thing that you can think of , that's conceivable. Even the most niche of things will sell in the millions, if exposed and made aware
    03-20-23 08:53 AM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    could easily have sold 10 million. No one knew about these phones.
    You are free to believe that if you want... I really see no indication that a PKB better meets the needs of most users today, or that better marketing could have improved sales enough to matter.... BBOS, BB10, BlackBerry Android or any of the PKB phones sold in the last decade.

    There is no global conspiracy against PKB phones... they simply are not the best format for what most users want. As most people want to view things on their phone, much more than they feel a PKB is a improvement over a VKB.
    03-20-23 11:43 AM
  7. SAVVYSCLUTTER's Avatar
    Some people say "Is that a Nokia brick?" or "Is that a calculator?" when they see my 9320.
    03-20-23 11:49 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    could easily have sold 10 million. No one knew about these phones.
    Nah. They squeezed about every ounce that was left out of the market.
    03-20-23 12:27 PM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    So why is there a market for every other thing that you can think of , that's conceivable. Even the most niche of things will sell in the millions, if exposed and made aware
    Nah, otherwise you'd see it offered since that level of sales would be happily supported by multiple OEMs that are struggling
    03-20-23 01:02 PM
  10. IronMathbook's Avatar
    I am still using a Key2 and my co-workers know I have a phone with a keyboard. None of them find it strange.
    IMOO since the Key2 can be used to watch videos I don't think they keyboard being there is the reason why PKBs fell off
    • Honestly blackberry became lame an uncool so their phone popularity dwindled.
    • People don't text as much anymore so the need for keyboards decreased.
    • The Key2 the last good Blackberry didn't come with a trackpad/track key so it's keyboard functionality is less then the phone that came before them.
    • The operating systems android and OS along with the browsers on them aren't optimized for keyboard or track pad use.
    • They market is dominated by android and apple and their products shape the market and consumer behavior and interaction with their devices. the same thing has been happening with chrome.


    I don't understand the negativity towards PKBs as a failed concept when it's obvious that market dominance and market effects removes customers from the market that are positive or neutral to PKBs, those who would buy under different circumstances.

    WHY would I use a PKB when the operating system wasn't designed for it!
    mikael11 likes this.
    03-20-23 07:24 PM
  11. joeldf's Avatar
    People still text around me all the time.

    People like to watch their media on bigger screens and the screen on the KeyOne and 2 is just not that big. They see the keyboard taking up permanent real estate that could be more screen.

    Plenty of keyboard phones were still around long after the touchscreen took over. People made their choice. No one forced anyone to a specific format. Phone makers want to make money, and there was none to be made from pkb phones after a certain point.


    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    03-20-23 09:45 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    I am still using a Key2 and my co-workers know I have a phone with a keyboard. None of them find it strange.
    IMOO since the Key2 can be used to watch videos I don't think they keyboard being there is the reason why PKBs fell off
    • Honestly blackberry became lame an uncool so their phone popularity dwindled.
    • People don't text as much anymore so the need for keyboards decreased.
    • The Key2 the last good Blackberry didn't come with a trackpad/track key so it's keyboard functionality is less then the phone that came before them.
    • The operating systems android and OS along with the browsers on them aren't optimized for keyboard or track pad use.
    • They market is dominated by android and apple and their products shape the market and consumer behavior and interaction with their devices. the same thing has been happening with chrome.


    I don't understand the negativity towards PKBs as a failed concept when it's obvious that market dominance and market effects removes customers from the market that are positive or neutral to PKBs, those who would buy under different circumstances.

    WHY would I use a PKB when the operating system wasn't designed for it!
    Products are driven by consumer demands - not vice-versa.
    03-20-23 11:14 PM
  13. SAVVYSCLUTTER's Avatar
    Slider phones solve the problem of making the screen smaller to fit a PKB.
    03-21-23 01:51 AM
  14. spARTacus's Avatar
    Products are driven by consumer demands - not vice-versa.
    Consumer demands are also significantly influenced and driven by those that are marketing products.
    03-21-23 06:02 AM
  15. spARTacus's Avatar
    The other day I remarked to someone that the way they were using the turny knob thing on the side of their iWatch resembled how people used to use the scroll wheels on the side of their Blackberries, way back when.
    03-21-23 06:07 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Consumer demands are also significantly influenced and driven by those that are marketing products.
    Ultimately, marketing attempts to influence consumer demand but in the end, no amount of marketing can sell a product a consumer doesn't want nor can it truly push, successfully, the physical attributes rejected by consumers.
    03-21-23 06:35 AM
  17. spARTacus's Avatar
    Ultimately, marketing attempts to influence consumer demand but in the end, no amount of marketing can sell a product a consumer doesn't want nor can it truly push, successfully, the physical attributes rejected by consumers.
    Agree, but there are also nuances. For example, when marketing/influence convince someone that they want something, something they'd not otherwise have wanted if they weren't marketed/influenced to, then is that them wanting it or is that just successful marketing/influencing to push/sell a product. I don't think it's wise to under estimate marketing/influencing /propaganda ability to shape opinions as to what is desired, wanted, accepted, rejected, etc., even for physical attributes. Successful influencing/propaganda is all around us everywhere, and not just for products.
    03-21-23 06:44 AM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Agree, but there are also nuances. For example, when marketing/influence convince someone that they want something, something they'd not otherwise have wanted if they weren't marketed/influenced to, then is that them wanting it or is that just successful marketing/influencing to push/sell a product. I don't think it's wise to under estimate marketing/influencing /propaganda ability to shape opinions as to what is desired, wanted, accepted, rejected, etc., even for physical attributes. Successful influencing/propaganda is all around us everywhere, and not just for products.
    Only works up to a point.... in the end if the product doesn't delivery value, then no amount of marketing can get someone to buy that product a second or third time. I know many here liked to call Apple users sheep because they bought an iPhone purely based on marketing or even peer pressure. But that wouldn't account for Apple's sucess for years and years. Even Apple has had a few failed products that no amount of marketing could save....

    Propaganda is something else...
    03-21-23 07:18 AM
  19. Ph1llip's Avatar
    So why is there a market for every other thing that you can think of , that's conceivable. Even the most niche of things will sell in the millions, if exposed and made aware
    Err...no they won't. You must have an unusual idea of what a market for a phone factor is. Hint, it's not 4 digits (Unihertz), 5 digits, 6 or 7 (TCL and BlackBerry). It's 8. Don't compare a phone to crap items in a dollar store.
    03-21-23 07:58 AM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Err...no they won't. You must have an unusual idea of what a market for a phone factor is. Hint, it's not 4 digits (Unihertz), 5 digits, 6 or 7 (TCL and BlackBerry). It's 8. Don't compare a phone to crap items in a dollar store.
    Some people will refuse to believe that the PKB form factor or the other products that BlackBerry has released... failed due to the product, rather than some outside force. Better to believe it was a lack of marketing, than most users just weren't interested.

    But they also fail to understand how much marketing really costs companies...
    03-21-23 08:28 AM
  21. IronMathbook's Avatar
    Only works up to a point.... in the end if the product doesn't delivery value, then no amount of marketing can get someone to buy that product a second or third time. I know many here liked to call Apple users sheep because they bought an iPhone purely based on marketing or even peer pressure. But that wouldn't account for Apple's sucess for years and years. Even Apple has had a few failed products that no amount of marketing could save....

    Propaganda is something else...
    You are not seeing the full picture. When market dominance gets large enough it will influence consumer choices in way that goes beyond marketing. Look at google search, even if another search engine might be better at doing one thing ( image search) this won't cause people to stop using google for image search. You could say this is laziness but most people online aren't superusers who would be prone to using more than one search engine.

    Any we have more options to get a man into space world wide than we have phone OS options. This isn't natural, there has been a whittling down of options in the electronic space for years. there's no reason why all corners of the tech space should resemble the utility space.
    03-22-23 04:48 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    You are not seeing the full picture. When market dominance gets large enough it will influence consumer choices in way that goes beyond marketing. Look at google search, even if another search engine might be better at doing one thing ( image search) this won't cause people to stop using google for image search. You could say this is laziness but most people online aren't superusers who would be prone to using more than one search engine.

    Any we have more options to get a man into space world wide than we have phone OS options. This isn't natural, there has been a whittling down of options in the electronic space for years. there's no reason why all corners of the tech space should resemble the utility space.
    Once consumers established what they liked best, developers reinforced it by focusing their efforts on only two platforms. Just like the PC, two consumer OSes seem optimal for longterm viability.

    As far as physical keyboards are concerned, they simply do not add value to what most people do with modern smartphones. Quite the opposite, they detract.
    03-22-23 08:16 PM
  23. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar


    In developed markets, PKB phone sales dropped 50% a year every year starting in 2012. That means each year, half of the people who knew all of the benefits of a PKB phone still chose to buy an all-touch phone. If you can't get exiting users to buy new PKB phones, when they already understand all of the benefits of a PKB phone, can you really blame a lack of marketing, or a lack of understanding of what PKB phones offer? No. At some point, you have to accept that people abandoned PKB phones because other attributes met their priorities better - mostly bigger screens, better cameras, faster processors, and more storage.

    The number of users who prioritized PKBs over all else continued to shrink every year, until that market simply wasn't profitable to support. At this point, even Unihertz is not really profitable, and they've got about as low of overhead as is possible.

    Just because someone is nostalgic for a product doesn't mean they'll actually spend their own money on it. BB fans have seen that play out for more than a decade.
    03-23-23 12:58 AM
  24. spARTacus's Avatar
    [IMG=1149x1100]https://i.imgur.com/p7cx7Zf.jpg[/url]

    In developed markets...
    Are those your annotations in red, or are those part of the original chart from where you got the chart at source?

    It's amazing how much sales they got from developing world after some of the writing was already on the wall. Sure thats been mentioned before all over the place. However, that graph shows it nicely. Would be nice to also see a complementary graph along same timelines and with same annotations, showing maybe something like average price/cost/porfit per unit sold.
    Last edited by spARTacus; 03-23-23 at 05:26 AM.
    03-23-23 04:21 AM
  25. spARTacus's Avatar
    Once it fully emerged, there was no changing/stopping the want and hype for all touch, apps, mobile social media, etc. BlackBerry themselves benefited from something similar when earlier "everyone wanted a BlackBerry". It's amazing how short lived BlackBerry actually was. Not even 10 years, maybe?
    Last edited by spARTacus; 03-23-23 at 05:23 AM.
    03-23-23 05:13 AM
152 123 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Watch the BLACKBERRY movie trailer!
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion & Contests
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-03-23, 09:44 AM
  2. My Blackberry venture comes to an end (2020 - 2023)
    By Francesco Sani in forum New to the Forums? Introduce Yourself Here!
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-31-23, 07:17 AM
  3. BlackBerry Key2 Major Issues
    By Phat the Saigonese in forum BlackBerry KEY2
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-22-23, 01:57 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-18-23, 02:04 PM
  5. Blackberry Keyone Rooting
    By Steve Tutty in forum BlackBerry KEYone
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-17-23, 10:02 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD