1. Fred Wu's Avatar
    all said, I would pay more for a blackberry that had as good a camera as an iphone. I have owned nikons too but they are too bulky. they dont also use much computor power to process images and that can be important when you dont shoot in raw mode. BlackBerry phones should at least do raw mode so that any photo can be processed.
    660 supports camera 2 API, but seems it was not enabled. Otherwise one can use google camera.
    06-23-18 09:28 AM
  2. FF22's Avatar
    Do not use HDR mode at night to shot the pic. Most of the time, it will gives blur image if your hand is not steady or there is a moving object in front of the camera. Normal mode will provide a quick and "better" shot. Attachment 437131Attachment 437132
    Good point.

    Oslo at night. Not perfect but adequate? After flying 12 hours and not sleeping for about 24 hours carrying the cellphone was good enough. Although, if I had taken my camera along I would have realized that my sd-card was back home!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Engadget camera test-img_20180127_1917494.jpg   Engadget camera test-img_20180127_2052508.jpg   Engadget camera test-img_20180127_1921088.jpg   Engadget camera test-img_20180127_2055423.jpg  
    06-23-18 09:46 AM
  3. TCM01's Avatar
    Is it mid tier or is it premium?
    Mid tier ... not meant to be a high end phone. If it was it wouldn't have a PKB and be close to 1k USD.
    06-23-18 01:08 PM
  4. TCM01's Avatar
    Time to put that “productivity” myth to bed. You could be more productive on a blackberry decades ago, when all the other phones had 9 keys and no email/calendar sync. Now you can be X times more productive on something like a Note 8 AND have a great camera. You can get every language alphabet on a vkb and typing on it is faster, spreadsheets on a big screen look better, messengers work on every smartphone. It’s that weird feeling of satisfaction, a tactile pleasure of making a physical effort to type — that’s the primary reason all of us will buy another blackberry. Camera is something people use very often, even the “productive” types. Let’s see what the reviews say about the shooter, but it’s not looking good so far.
    Not everyone is efficient typing on glass. In addition, the shortcuts available on the K1 is definitely more productive.
    06-23-18 01:12 PM
  5. bitek's Avatar
    " I'm not convinced TCL/BlackBerry Mobile really needed a dual camera here. Sure, those camera setups are growing more popular by the day, and we're probably not too far from the point where people buying a new smartphone would naturally expect one. Even so, it's not like people have historically flocked to BlackBerrys because they knew the cameras would be great"

    The guy is *****.
    06-23-18 03:03 PM
  6. nbaliga's Avatar
    I think it was actually a GOOD and honest review.

    bottom line seems to be the camera is more than good enough in decent lighting, good in lower light, and not so good in very low light.

    I think portrait mode is easily upgradable with software and will get better given this is BB's first go at it.

    I'm actually encouraged by this review, not the other way around.
    UrbanGlowCam likes this.
    06-23-18 03:34 PM
  7. draculito01's Avatar
    I believe BlackBerry is making a mistake by neglecting the camera and/or penny-pinching on the R&D brain to build good software for it. Slapping a keyboard on an $300 phone and selling it for $650 may lead to mediocre sales, again.
    pdr733 likes this.
    06-23-18 04:05 PM
  8. quizm's Avatar
    I have two Canon bodies and a bunch of glass, including several "L" series ("expensive as L")

    That's spot on - glass is more important than sensor by a lot..
    I have a Nikon camera, also with expensive glass. There is no doubt that the picture quality under the right conditions cant be beat by a smartphone camera. But where a smartphone camera seems to be better in my view is for automated and advanced image correction/ filtering, and especially in low light and in particular situations. We are dealing here with digital information and the processing power of the smartphone can make a huge difference. Lenses are certainly key, and so are the sensors. But intelligent manipulation of the image taken by advanced algorithms critically affect the result. You might say this is manipulation but truthfully, thats what photography is now.
    guizmox likes this.
    06-23-18 04:16 PM
  9. The Big Picture's Avatar
    I just think it's stupid not to have OIS. I second whoever said that having a single lens with OIS is better than having dual lenses without OIS.

    my wife is using the Google pixel 2XL and it's miles ahead of my keyone.

    I have a huge heavy full frame D610 Nikon for more serious photography but seriously,
    a camera is most useful during a moment which could happen at anytime and let's face it no one is going to lug around a big camera with them everywhere all the time!

    with AI, dedicated image processing chips (both present on the Google pixel + photos combo) camera phones will just get better and better so much so anything smaller than a crop sensor camera will be not worth the bulk. there is such thing as diminishing returns and practicality in life.

    I would dare say that the Google pixel 2 creates low light pictures on par with a 1/1.7inch or maybe even a 1inch sensor. And most regular compact cameras on the market today have smaller sensors than the ones I just mentioned.
    pdr733 likes this.
    06-23-18 04:31 PM
  10. The Big Picture's Avatar
    I have a Nikon camera, also with expensive glass. There is no doubt that the picture quality under the right conditions cant be beat by a smartphone camera. But where a smartphone camera seems to be better in my view is for automated and advanced image correction/ filtering, and especially in low light and in particular situations. We are dealing here with digital information and the processing power of the smartphone can make a huge difference. Lenses are certainly key, and so are the sensors. But intelligent manipulation of the image taken by advanced algorithms critically affect the result. You might say this is manipulation but truthfully, thats what photography is now.
    Hear hear!
    06-23-18 04:34 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    I believe BlackBerry is making a mistake by neglecting the camera and/or penny-pinching on the R&D brain to build good software for it. Slapping a keyboard on an $300 phone and selling it for $650 may lead to mediocre sales, again.
    Mediocre? Demand for the KEYᵒⁿᵉ was double expectations.

    This isn't a discount brand, and has a particular market in mind. If it's not your cup of tea, then fill your boots with dozens of other choices out there.

    As far as the camera is concerned - it's very, very good. Is it the best out there? No.
    06-23-18 04:55 PM
  12. Fred Wu's Avatar
    Mediocre? Demand for the KEYᵒⁿᵉ was double expectations.

    This isn't a discount brand, and has a particular market in mind. If it's not your cup of tea, then fill your boots with dozens of other choices out there.

    As far as the camera is concerned - it's very, very good. Is it the best out there? No.
    I have a second thought recently regarding the point "has a particular market in mind" .

    It does sound like, if you want out product, and no other offers, so we can do whatever we want to robber you, and if you don't like then leave and we don't care.
    06-23-18 05:32 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    I have a second thought recently regarding the point "has a particular market in mind" .

    It does sound like, if you want out product, and no other offers, so we can do whatever we want to robber you, and if you don't like then leave and we don't care.
    More like - "this is what it costs us to bring said device to market, while retaining enough margin to make our venture worthwhile to us - so hopefully there are enough takers, otherwise we'll quit".
    06-23-18 05:34 PM
  14. Fred Wu's Avatar
    More like - "this is what it costs us to bring said device to market, while retaining enough margin to make our venture worthwhile to us - so hopefully there are enough takers, otherwise we'll quit".
    But certainly ppl don't care whether they quit or not. And outside this "particular market", everyone thought BB phone does no long exist.

    As for the camera, they can do better on the software side, or for example to enable camera 2 API by default so we can use google camera to enhance the image.
    06-23-18 05:41 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    But certainly ppl don't care whether they quit or not. And outside this "particular market", everyone thought BB phone does no long exist.
    Where are you going with this now? A moment ago you were accusing them of robbing you blind.
    06-23-18 05:44 PM
  16. Fred Wu's Avatar
    Where are you going with this now? A moment ago you were accusing them of robbing you blind.
    People like BB phone do not mean they cannot live without it.

    Just like other said too, every single one seeing me using KEYone asked "does blackberry still make phone" ?
    06-23-18 05:50 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    People like BB phone do not mean they cannot live without it.

    Just like other said too, every single one seeing me using KEYone asked "does blackberry still make phone" ?
    But what's your point?

    If it costs $x to bring a low-volume niche product to market, that's what it is.

    If people aren't willing to pay for it, then it won't survive. Simple as that.
    06-23-18 05:54 PM
  18. Fred Wu's Avatar
    But what's your point?

    If it costs $x to bring a low-volume niche product to market, that's what it is.

    If people aren't willing to pay for it, then it won't survive. Simple as that.
    We were talking about the camera. They certainly can do better on the software side.

    I am happy with every other aspect of KEY2. However, my determination would be the camera. I will wait for the review on the camera.

    Australia will have KEY2 in August, and new pixel or iPhone just 1 or 2 months away. KEYone is good enough for my daily drive, so KEy2 is not necessary.
    06-23-18 06:04 PM
  19. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    This isn't a discount brand, and has a particular market in mind. If it's not your cup of tea, then fill your boots with dozens of other choices out there.

    As far as the camera is concerned - it's very, very good. Is it the best out there? No.
    How do you know how good it is? I hope that is correct...but if history is any indication, it won't be anywhere near 'very, very good'. We shall how 'very, very good' it is soon enough. TCL can't rely on sensors alone.

    I hope they at least updated the BlackBerry camera App. In fact, TCL should get in front of this and commit to updating it regularly, so at least buyers will have some peace of mind that any glitches will be dealt with. After all, BlackBerry's camera app (at least for the PRIV) hasn't been updated since October 2016.
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...y.camera&hl=en
    That's quite pathetic for ANY phone, let alone one trying go pass itself off as a 'quality' device. Do we even know how often the BlackBerry camera app is being updated, and who is responsible for it?
    06-23-18 07:11 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    How do you know how good it is? I hope that is correct...but if history is any indication, it won't be anywhere near 'very, very good'. We shall how 'very, very good' it is soon enough. TCL can't rely on sensors alone.

    I hope they at least updated the BlackBerry camera App. In fact, TCL should get in front of this and commit to updating it regularly, so at least buyers will have some peace of mind that any glitches will be dealt with. After all, BlackBerry's camera app (at least for the PRIV) hasn't been updated since October 2016.
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...y.camera&hl=en
    That's quite pathetic for ANY phone, let alone one trying go pass itself off as a 'quality' device. Do we even know how often the BlackBerry camera app is being updated, and who is responsible for it?
    Isn’t the PRIV EOL? Nothing’s being updated, not just the camera.
    06-23-18 07:40 PM
  21. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Isn’t the PRIV EOL? Nothing’s being updated, not just the camera.
    I realize that, but they only updated it for a year and then all support for the camera vanished. Wasn't the PRIV supposed to get at least two years of support? The camera app seems to have been abandoned by BlackBerry. What BlackBerry did (if anything) for the DTEKs, Aurora, KeyONE, Motion, and Key2 is anyone's guess. Probably just a one off for each model / OS build. Perhaps someone with inside knowledge of the situation can shed some light on it.
    06-23-18 08:01 PM
  22. thurask's Avatar
    I realize that, but they only updated it for a year and then all support for the camera vanished. Wasn't the PRIV supposed to get at least two years of support? The camera app seems to have been abandoned by BlackBerry. What BlackBerry did (if anything) for the DTEKs, Aurora, KeyONE, Motion, and Key2 is anyone's guess. Probably just a one off for each model / OS build. Perhaps someone with inside knowledge of the situation can shed some light on it.
    As far as I can tell, the Priv and DTEKs have the BlackBerry Camera app in the Play Store, by BlackBerry Ltd. For the other phones, they're offloaded onto the licensees; the Aurora camera app is the Nubia one (since it's a ZTE Nubia phone underneath), while the KEYone/Motion/KEY2 app is by TCL. For the TCL phones the camera app gets updated as part of an OTA OS update, although the last time there were any material changes to any camera app was when Locker support was added to the KEYone back in December 2017 or so.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    06-23-18 08:05 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I realize that, but they only updated it for a year and then all support for the camera vanished. Wasn't the PRIV supposed to get at least two years of support? The camera app seems to have been abandoned by BlackBerry. What BlackBerry did (if anything) for the DTEKs, Aurora, KeyONE, Motion, and Key2 is anyone's guess. Probably just a one off for each model / OS build. Perhaps someone with inside knowledge of the situation can shed some light on it.
    PRIV got 24 months from initial model sale date and technically one upgrade from Lollipop to Marshmallow. DTEK support was dumped onto TCL and extended support would be meaningless. Both my DTEK were poor quality rebadged devices. What can I do? BB left the business and I’ve given BBMo/TCL one chance to get it right with the KEYone. So far so good and I look forward to Key2.

    Simple, BB isn’t supporting anything not being paid for by their licensing customers BBMo/TCL, Optiemus and BBPM.
    06-23-18 08:19 PM
  24. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    As far as I can tell, the Priv and DTEKs have the BlackBerry Camera app in the Play Store, by BlackBerry Ltd. For the other phones, they're offloaded onto the licensees; the Aurora camera app is the Nubia one (since it's a ZTE Nubia phone underneath), while the KEYone/Motion/KEY2 app is by TCL. For the TCL phones the camera app gets updated as part of an OTA OS update, although the last time there were any material changes to any camera app was when Locker support was added to the KEYone back in December 2017 or so.
    Thanks thurask. So there we go, whatever we see in the Key2 should be a 'new build' (because it's on Oreo, is a new model, and has different sensors) but we will have to wait and see what's been improved and/or modified. I don't know why they chose to sweep the camera app under the rug...but the optics of that move (no pun intended) do not exactly inspire confidence that the app is being updated and/or supported on a regular basis.
    06-23-18 08:20 PM
  25. FF22's Avatar
    I realize that, but they only updated it for a year and then all support for the camera vanished. Wasn't the PRIV supposed to get at least two years of support? The camera app seems to have been abandoned by BlackBerry. What BlackBerry did (if anything) for the DTEKs, Aurora, KeyONE, Motion, and Key2 is anyone's guess. Probably just a one off for each model / OS build. Perhaps someone with inside knowledge of the situation can shed some light on it.
    If I recall, the Priv camera app was updated quite a bit and there was even a thread where BB employees were quite active. Or am I mis-remembering? But I think he or other supportive folks left BB.
    06-23-18 08:23 PM
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