1. Crusader03's Avatar
    As you all may be aware, Canada is in a bit of hot water with China when we legally apprehended HUAWEI CFO Meng Wanzhou, daughter of the CEO and founder on an international warrant issued by the United States. Matter of interest here is that BlackBerry was interviewed regarding HUAWEI and other State sponsored TeleCommunications giant's security concerns. BlackBerry has offered itself up as the Software Security protector to the World including major Corporations and Governments.

    Not necessarily TCL's watered down version of the phone, but the security side of the software. So, my thoughts are, if, and only if TCL can up their game and offer a true solid security devise (fan boys need not volley here), then a true comeback may be in order globally. Either way, our beloved BlackBerry will be under extreme scrutiny for the foreseeable future. My hope is they up the game and make us proud, or not. Cheers,
    Last edited by Crusader03; 12-10-18 at 09:04 PM.
    12-10-18 07:30 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    People don't fully care or understand the need for security. All this stuff makes headlines then gets washed away the next day. You can make the best of the best in security and it still won't matter until people realize the full need for those security enabled devices. Plus, there's still the convenience factor. People trade off their security and privacy for convenience without hesitation. Even Chen knows that changing the mindset is hard. - https://crackberry.com/john-chen-dis...o-global-forum

    12-10-18 07:36 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Not necessarily TCL's watered down version of the phone, but the security side of the software. So, my thoughts are, if, only if TCL can up their game and offer a true solid security devise, then a true comeback may be in order globally.
    Watered down how? BBMo uses BlackBerry's full BlackBerry Android solution.

    If you want something more locked down, get a Punkt MP02.
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    12-10-18 08:11 PM
  4. Crusader03's Avatar
    Watered down how? BBMo uses BlackBerry's full BlackBerry Android solution.

    If you want something more locked down, get a Punkt MP02.
    Compared to any prior (TCL) BlackBerry! You know, when they actually made them. Am I missing something? You know, back in the day when major Corporations and Governments around the world used them because they were the most secure phone in the world. Cheers,
    12-10-18 08:18 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    Compared to any prior (TCL) BlackBerry! You know, when they actually made them. Am I missing something? You know, back in the day when major Corporations and Governments around the world used them because they were the most secure phone in the world. Cheers,
    BBMo KEYs are no different than the BlackBerry Priv.

    Are you actually referring to BB10 or BBOS?
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    12-10-18 08:20 PM
  6. Crusader03's Avatar
    Are we debating semantics Conite? Don't get me wrong, I too love blackberry, but to compare BlackBerry made product to TCL's current version, really? See, this is the kind of minutiae debating and defending that drives me nuts.
    12-10-18 08:27 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Are we debating semantics Conite? Don't get me wrong, I too love blackberry, but to compare BlackBerry made product to TCL's current version, really? See, this is the kind of minutiae debating and defending that drives me nuts.
    I'm trying to understand what you're saying.

    BBMo devices have the identical security as the BlackBerry Priv. Is that not what the topic is - security?
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    12-10-18 08:31 PM
  8. Crusader03's Avatar
    People don't fully care or understand the need for security. All this stuff makes headlines then gets washed away the next day. You can make the best of the best in security and it still won't matter until people realize the full need for those security enabled devices. Plus, there's still the convenience factor. People trade off their security and privacy for convenience without hesitation. Even Chen knows that changing the mindset is hard. - https://crackberry.com/john-chen-dis...o-global-forum

    Bla1ze, that's exactly my point! Security is being brought front and center, right now! HUAWEI and others are being uncovered for what they are! This is not a FAD, the US government has an international warrant out for the CFO, this is no small throw away story. It is however a major opportunity unfolding for the securist of devises to come into prominence! Should be us! Alas, no guarantees with today's TCL devise. I am pulling for them, but upping the game is the game for BlackBerry and TCL.
    Last edited by Crusader03; 12-10-18 at 08:45 PM.
    12-10-18 08:35 PM
  9. Crusader03's Avatar
    I'm trying to understand what you're saying.

    BBMo devices have the identical security as the BlackBerry Priv. Is that not what the topic is - security?
    Ok, let's make it simple. If you setup a poll for all those historical BlackBerry users and ask which product was/is preferred. Take the million apps accessibility out of the equation and the point I am making will become crystal clear! It is about a secure, business tool devise, it has never been about having access to a million useless apps, thats not where BlackBerry lives and thrives.

    I apologize for my slow responses as my excellent K2's keyboard is driving me and many others crazy with its known bug. Again, this is what I am pointing out about TCL upping their QC game and aggressively pursue this new security conscious consumer as it further emerges.
    12-10-18 08:44 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Ok, let's make it simple. If you setup a poll for all those historical BlackBerry users and ask which product was/is preferred. Take the million apps accessibility out of the equation and the point I am making will become crystal clear! It is about a secure, business tool devise, it has never been about having access to a million useless apps, thats not where BlackBerry lives and thrives.

    I apologize for my slow responses as my excellent K2's keyboard is driving me and many others crazy with its known bug. Again, this is what I am pointing out about TCL upping their QC game and aggressively pursue this new security conscious consumer as it further emerges.
    Sorry @Crusader03, I'm still lost.

    Are we talking about the relative security of various OS platforms (BBOS vs BB10 vs vanilla Android vs BlackBerry Android), or are we talking about the physical construction of various devices (TCL vs Wistron vs Foxconn)?
    rarsen likes this.
    12-10-18 09:27 PM
  11. Crusader03's Avatar
    Sorry @Crusader03, I'm still lost.

    Are we talking about the relative security of various OS platforms (BBOS vs BB10 vs vanilla Android vs BlackBerry Android), or are we talking about the physical construction of various devices (TCL vs Wistron vs Foxconn)?
    BBOS and BB10 to a lesser extent.
    12-10-18 09:28 PM
  12. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Bla1ze, that's exactly my point! Security is being brought front and center, right now! HUAWEI and others are being uncovered for what they are! This is not a FAD, the US government has an international warrant out for the CFO, this is no small throw away story. It is however a major opportunity unfolding for the securist of devises to come into prominence! Should be us! Alas, no guarantees with today's TCL devise. I am pulling for them, but upping the game is the game for BlackBerry and TCL.
    Right and I get that.. but my point is... until people realize these things, nothing BlackBerry or TCL does is going to help them. The majority of people aren't buying into the security and privacy aspect yet on the consumer level.
    rarsen likes this.
    12-10-18 09:29 PM
  13. Crusader03's Avatar
    Right and I get that.. but my point is... until people realize these things, nothing BlackBerry or TCL does is going to help them. The majority of people aren't buying into the security and privacy aspect yet on the consumer level.
    Agreed, but corporations and Governments have it top of mind globally. Trickle down.
    12-10-18 09:30 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    BBOS and BB10 to a lesser extent.
    OK.

    If the argument is that BlackBerry has watered down its security when it moved from BB10/BBOS to BlackBerry Android, then whether that is true or not (I don't believe it is), the former was no longer viable - so it's a moot point. It's not a question of BlackBerry Android or BB10/BBOS - it's either BlackBerry Android or NOTHING.

    If the argument is whether hardware was watered down when BlackBerry extended a licence to BBMo/TCL (I don't believe it was), then again, it's moot as BlackBerry was no longer going to produce hardware anyway. It's not a question of BBMo or BlackBerry - it's either BBMo or nothing.

    If you simply wish BBMo made better devices, or had better quality control, then all I can say is: it is what it is. Either deal with them in the future or don't. Either use their support infrastructure to exchange your device, or don't.
    rarsen and hamilgs like this.
    12-10-18 09:36 PM
  15. Crusader03's Avatar
    OK.

    If the argument is that BlackBerry has watered down its security when it moved from BB10/BBOS to BlackBerry Android, then whether that is true or not (I don't believe it is), the former was no longer viable - so it's a moot point. It's not a question of BlackBerry Android or BB10/BBOS - it's either BlackBerry Android or NOTHING.

    If the argument is whether hardware was watered down when BlackBerry extended a licence to BBMo/TCL (I don't believe it was), then again, it's moot as BlackBerry was no longer going to produce hardware anyway. It's not a question of BBMo or BlackBerry - it's either BBMo or nothing.

    If you simply wish BBMo made better devices, or had better quality control, then all I can say is: it is what it is. Either deal with them in the future or don't. Either use their support infrastructure to exchange your device, or don't.
    All truths! The security opportunity that is and will present itself will perhaps be beyond our reach due to stated and understood compromises to keep the brand afloat. Ultimate Victory in business is only granted to the boldest! Cheers,
    12-10-18 09:48 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    All truths! The security opportunity that is and will present itself will perhaps be beyond our reach due to stated and understood compromises to keep the brand afloat. Ultimate Victory in business is only granted to the boldest! Cheers,
    The fact is, BlackBerry Android (and Knox, and iPhone) are PLENTY secure behind an EMM solution for over 99.9% of enterprise and government users.

    Anything above that requirement would need a custom (non-commercial grade) solution anyway.

    If you are worried about consumer privacy, there are many, many steps you can take to minimize your exposure.

    If you are super-worried, then get a dumbphone, as you can never be fully private when on the grid.
    rarsen likes this.
    12-10-18 09:54 PM
  17. Crusader03's Avatar
    The fact is, BlackBerry Android (and Knox, and iPhone) are PLENTY secure behind an EMM solution for over 99.9% of enterprise and government users.

    Anything above that requirement would need a custom (non-commercial grade) solution anyway.

    If you are worried about consumer privacy, there are many, many steps you can take to minimize your exposure.

    If you are super-worried, then get a dumbphone, as you can never be fully private when on the grid.
    Not worried about security myself other than what BlackBerry devises provide. My whole point was a massive Global Corporate and Government Opportunity for us. And yes, we fell asleep at the switch and others maximized the opportunity with Enterprise certification. To get back some of the market we had might be a bridge too far. We shall see what TCL's appetite for the coming fight is. Cheers,
    Last edited by Crusader03; 12-10-18 at 10:27 PM.
    12-10-18 10:09 PM
  18. RegN's Avatar
    I don't know much about security but I tried a moto phone for a bit between classic and keytwo. When I put my company email on moto phone and also my tablet I had to give permission for the longest list ever. Had to agree they could wipe my device. When I got Blackberry KEY² and put the email account on it I had nothing to agree to. I still had to have a password on the device same as my classic. That told me something was different with Blackberry phones and security.

    Blackberry KEY² Silver Edition
    rarsen likes this.
    12-10-18 10:46 PM
  19. YeahIgottheKey2's Avatar
    I don't know if I trust BlackBerry with security. I use it primarily for the physical keyboard. Look at the time they gave the RCMP decryption keys and provided foreign governments access into their foreign server farms.

    Secure? Maybe an illusion.
    12-12-18 01:11 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    I don't know if I trust BlackBerry with security. I use it primarily for the physical keyboard. Look at the time they gave the RCMP decryption keys and provided foreign governments access into their foreign server farms.

    Secure? Maybe an illusion.
    That was for BBM, and the only data accessible was meta.

    Use Telegram or Signal, and you'll be fine.

    I have never heard of an instance where BlackBerry provided access to a device, and it's unlikely they could anyway.
    12-12-18 01:15 PM
  21. YeahIgottheKey2's Avatar
    That was for BBM, and the only data accessible was meta.
    BlackBerry has never provided a detailed breakdown of what access they provided and why it was provided.

    No assistance should have ever been granted to begin with.

    Chen's stance after San Bernardino was very troubling as well.

    We still do not have an answer if BlackBerry devices can be accessed via forensic tools like Cellebrite or Aceso etc.
    12-12-18 01:23 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    BlackBerry has never provided a detailed breakdown of what access they provided and why it was provided.

    No assistance should have ever been granted to begin with.

    Chen's stance after San Bernardino was very troubling as well.

    We still do not have an answer if BlackBerry devices can be accessed via forensic tools like Cellebrite or Aceso etc.
    Chen was specific that meta data was the ONLY thing they had access to.

    From CBC interview:

    "He also offered some more insight into his post -- highlighting a "longstanding policy" established at BlackBerry before his arrival two years ago, which outlines when the company would be willing to give access to police under a court order.

    "We are going to be able to provide your location, who's called who, and all of the metadata around that," he said in a roundtable with reporters.

    But he emphasized that BlackBerry wouldn't give authorities a user's specific texts or other communication.

    "The data itself is safe because we never have it," he said. "We never save the content."
    12-12-18 01:25 PM
  23. nucks26's Avatar
    Most people don’t care about security until a situation arises where they have personal data stolen from them. As per bla1ze, most folks would trade security and privacy for convenience in a heartbeat. An example is how quickly we opt into location services and other permissions on our devices. Now, mind you I opt in as well for the convenience factor, but it just goes to show you that I would say the majority of the consumer market don’t see security as a priority right now.
    12-12-18 08:28 PM
  24. krzyabn's Avatar
    People don't care about security, look at what happened with facebook. a lot of my friends said they'll stop using or delete their facebooks. You know how many actually did? 1... out of maybe 25-30+ that said they would. Security means nothing these days. sorry to break it to ya.
    12-14-18 02:36 AM

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