[markus2107]

Simple. The Passport cost was really more than would be charged at time of manufacture. If premium items you request are used, the cost increases above price now significantly while only having other mid-tier specs. The device is setup and priced to keep mid-tier. It’s for the 80% of the middle spectrum.

Problem here is that BB Mobile still makes you wallet 600€ lighter, while there are Android phones out there for less money with generally better hardware and the possibility to install BB apps on them. I guess there are reasons for the higher price tag, like smaller charges and what else. But with these downgrades BB Mobile won't be able to attract new customers. And hoping on all the OS 10 users to switch is a long shot and more so when you think about the alternatives OS 10 users have.

[markus2107]

Since I am in CB I have seen so many complains with the Keyones.... Too many people are complaining.... we will see whit updates...but better luck maybe with Key 3?

Posted via CB10

Here's another thing that's really holding me back from buying any Android BB. You'll always be getting security updates for only 2 years since release. So when you think you can wait for like 3 months, those 3 months will be lost for future security updates. Such a sad world we're living in, where missing software updates alone possibly break your phone.

[conite]

Here's another thing that's really holding me back from buying any Android BB. You'll always be getting security updates for only 2 years since release. So when you think you can wait for like 3 months, those 3 months will be lost for future security updates. Such a sad world we're living in, where missing software updates alone possibly break your phone.

BlackBerry Mobile provides 3 years of security updates.

[markus2107]

BlackBerry Mobile provides 3 years of security updates.

OK, thanks for the heads up. I did really think that I read 2 years somewhere. So DTEK devices still get regularly updates?

Although 3 years should be enough for most people who tend to switch their devices on a regular basis, I tend to keep my devices for a longer period of time. That's not only a blessing for my wallet, but a good thing for the environment and the resources on our planet as well.

And those 3 years are nothing compared to the lifetime support we got with OS 10. I know that I'm on a lost post here, but this is how devices should be supported. No need for any fancy eye candy or data mining. Just basic features with basic updates to keep everything save and alive for as long as possible.

[conite]

OK, thanks for the heads up. I did really think that I read 2 years somewhere. So DTEK devices still get regularly updates?

Although 3 years should be enough for most people who tend to switch their devices on a regular basis, I tend to keep my devices for a longer period of time. That's not only a blessing for my wallet, but a good thing for the environment and the resources on our planet as well.

Along with the Priv, the DTEKs are part of the former BlackBerry (not BlackBerry Mobile) 2 year commitment.

[the_boon]

Here's another thing that's really holding me back from buying any Android BB.

Aside from Google themselves with their Pixel phones, no manufacturer is as consistent on security updates as BB. It's pretty well known actually

[Chuck Finley69]

Problem here is that BB Mobile still makes you wallet 600€ lighter, while there are Android phones out there for less money with generally better hardware and the possibility to install BB apps on them. I guess there are reasons for the higher price tag, like smaller charges and what else. But with these downgrades BB Mobile won't be able to attract new customers. And hoping on all the OS 10 users to switch is a long shot and more so when you think about the alternatives OS 10 users have.

All what remaining BB10 users? That’s about the worst target you could aim for. BB10 users purchased hardware at cost or below cost prices when new and fantasize about what a great customer base. No company wants customers who prefer to buy devices in the secondary markets cheap. If you want any Key device as-is priced as-is then BBMo wants you. If not, they don’t care what you do. BBMo/TCL will either make a profit or quit. They’re not doing this for nostalgia.

[Chuck Finley69]

OK, thanks for the heads up. I did really think that I read 2 years somewhere. So DTEK devices still get regularly updates?

Although 3 years should be enough for most people who tend to switch their devices on a regular basis, I tend to keep my devices for a longer period of time. That's not only a blessing for my wallet, but a good thing for the environment and the resources on our planet as well.

And those 3 years are nothing compared to the lifetime support we got with OS 10. I know that I'm on a lost post here, but this is how devices should be supported. No need for any fancy eye candy or data mining. Just basic features with basic updates to keep everything save and alive for as long as possible.

That’s great if profitable however, not enough people to support the business model you propose. Apple is the closest, but it’s still more expensive and data mining does exist inside the walled ecosystem.

[markus2107]

All what remaining BB10 users? That’s about the worst target you could aim for. BB10 users purchased hardware at cost or below cost prices when new and fantasize about what a great customer base. No company wants customers who prefer to buy devices in the secondary markets cheap. If you want any Key device as-is priced as-is then BBMo wants you. If not, they don’t care what you do. BBMo/TCL will either make a profit or quit. They’re not doing this for nostalgia.

You came up with the OS 10 user base in your first post. I'm simply saying that this small user base is nothing worth targeting. They have to compete with other brands and stand out for more than software (you can put on about every other phone) and simply having a physikal keyboard. It needs more than that.

[Chuck Finley69]

You came up with the OS 10 user base in your first post. I'm simply saying that this small user base is nothing worth targeting. They have to compete with other brands and stand out for more than software (you can put on about every other phone) and simply having a physikal keyboard. It needs more than that.

I was responding to someone with a Passport user owner specifically in my original post. The Key line is about the PKB. That’s it. While I prefer BBAndroid, it’s not something alone that prospective customers feel is necessary. People that want a PKB running Android for $399-$649 is target market of the Key line right now. BBMo/TCL knows they’re only PKB in town.

[cckgz4]

If TCL is serious about the key series being flagship and expecting customers to drop 650 on this device.

They got majority of it down. They need a DAC, good quality earspeaker, and most of all, flagship quality camera.

Also a brighter screen. I can barely see this one in the sunlight.

So you don't want great battery life then?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

So you don't want great battery life then?

With the advent of small cheap power banks along with fast charging... it's not that big of a deal in most western markets. In other markets, 3500mAh batteries (or much larger) are more common.... as are the same midgrade processors that BlackBerry is trying to pawn off as premium.

If you look at the SD845, I'm not sure it isn't just as efficient as the SD660. It has a number of extra power saving features that the SD660 doesn't have, along with it has four efficiency processors that are actually clocked slower than the SD660 and is built on the 10NM semiconductors. But benchmarked and going full out... yes it' will use more power, but then it also doubles the performance of the SD660.

Keyboard is really all BBMo has to offer.... Battery Life, Durability, 3 Years of Updates, Privacy, Security... those are nice extras, but not worth the $200 premium. Either the KEYboard carriers sales, or doesn't.

[AhabSnake]

Who makes better hardware?? What phone has better build quality with grip, and feels great to hold without a case? Every screen slab ive seen is designed badly, they don't understand ergonomics.

[the_boon]

Who makes better hardware?? What phone has better build quality with grip, and feels great to hold without a case? Every screen slab ive seen is designed badly, they don't understand ergonomics.

I tend to agree with that. Seems all they care about is the "wow" factor, by doing inconvenient and fragile designs.

Why do they even bother with color options anyway? Everyone's going nuts over that red OnePlus 6...

Like, dude, you're gonna cover it up in a cheap $5 silicone case ANYWAY. And if that case is clear so that it does show off the color, then it won't stay clear much longer because we all know how clear gel cases get after a few months.

The current smartphone trend is taking a turn for the ridiculous...

Function has gone out the window, and only form is here to stay.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Who makes better hardware?? What phone has better build quality with grip, and feels great to hold without a case? Every screen slab ive seen is designed badly, they don't understand ergonomics.

Most are designing them so that the ergonomics work with a disposable case.

Average person in the US, is now keeping their smartphone 31 months. Don't care how great the build quality is, few are going to risk that long without using a case to protect their "investment".

[anon(10268214)]

All what remaining BB10 users? That’s about the worst target you could aim for. BB10 users purchased hardware at cost or below cost prices when new and fantasize about what a great customer base. No company wants customers who prefer to buy devices in the secondary markets cheap. If you want any Key device as-is priced as-is then BBMo wants you. If not, they don’t care what you do. BBMo/TCL will either make a profit or quit. They’re not doing this for nostalgia.

Yeah, but there's a problem with that formula. They keep saying they are competing for a piece of the premium market. And yet all the features that premium phones compete on...chipset, screen, and camera being the main ones...are all sub-par on BlackBerry devices. They are taking a big gamble by assuming the PKB (most people don't care about the BlackBerry apps or security...its Android LOL) will be enough to get people to open their wallets for a kit of parts that is far below market value in that segment. I really don't think keyboard diehards alone can support the brand in the long term.

I'm on a Pixel 2 now and I have to say while I do like the Key2 in most respects, and miss owning a BlackBerry, PKB or not - it's a tough sell for the significant spec and software support hit I have to give up for a measly $100 max in savings (and that's for unlocked; my carrier set the Key2 price only $30 lower than a full price Pixel 2).

[the_boon]

Most are designing them so that the ergonomics work with a disposable case.

Average person in the US, is now keeping their smartphone 31 months. Don't care how great the build quality is, few are going to risk that long without using a case to protect their "investment".

Doesn't matter what the cycle of replacement is. A smartphone shouldn't need a case to be usable in the real word.
I don't care who makes it, Apple, Google, Samsung, Blackberry, OnePlus, LG, HTC....

Remember those days when you pulled out a smartphone out of its box and could just use it without panicking that the screen or some other component would break on the first drop?

Really miss those days. I guess it was due to the plastic screen or something

[cckgz4]

With the advent of small cheap power banks along with fast charging... it's not that big of a deal in most western markets. In other markets, 3500mAh batteries (or much larger) are more common.... as are the same midgrade processors that BlackBerry is trying to pawn off as premium.

If you look at the SD845, I'm not sure it isn't just as efficient as the SD660. It has a number of extra power saving features that the SD660 doesn't have, along with it has four efficiency processors that are actually clocked slower than the SD660 and is built on the 10NM semiconductors. But benchmarked and going full out... yes it' will use more power, but then it also doubles the performance of the SD660.

Keyboard is really all BBMo has to offer.... Battery Life, Durability, 3 Years of Updates, Privacy, Security... those are nice extras, but not worth the $200 premium. Either the KEYboard carriers sales, or doesn't.

I'm not saying the price point isn't steep, but I do know why they chose the specs that they did. The Keyone was consistently rated as the smartphone with hard to beat battery life. And while that may not be a function you are interested in, it is important for a lot of people. It's personally annoying if I have to carry a charging bank, USB cord, and a possible wall charger because I can't depend on my phone to get throughout a day of use

[the_boon]

I'm not saying the price point isn't steep, but I do know why they chose the specs that they did. The Keyone was consistently rated as the smartphone with hard to beat battery life. And while that may not be a function you are interested in, it is important for a lot of people. It's personally annoying if I have to carry a charging bank, USB cord, and a possible wall charger because I can't depend on my phone to get throughout a day of use

I'll go even further:

Quick charge, wireless charge, adaptive fast charge, dash charge, power banks as well as the prevalence of charging stations in big cities are NO excuse for disappointing battery life. It's a mobile device, remember?

If you're gonna cram a power hungry OLED display with a guzzling chipset, you better cram a sizeable battery in there that will keep the phone running reliably for a full day.

[cckgz4]

I'll go even further:

Quick charge, wireless charge, adaptive fast charge, dash charge, power banks as well as the prevalence of charging stations in big cities are NO excuse for disappointing battery life. It's a mobile device, remember?

If you're gonna cram a power hungry OLED display with a guzzling chipset, you better cram a sizeable battery in there that will keep the phone running reliably for a full day.

I have a 7 Plus, which doesn't have wireless charging, or fast charging, or adaptive fast charging, or dash charging. And being mobile or not, majority of folks spend 8 hours or more at work and are always moving. So being that my phone doesn't have these adaptable features, it's going to be a minute before it can charge up quickly. Mind you this phone came out where all these features were all over Android devices and they charged a hefty premium for this phone. I don't remember anyone dinging it in reviews for lacking those named features and tagging that price with it. And with my display, a few youtube videos and music streaming gets me down to 20% or less when I get home, which means I got to be tethered to a wall charger or use my iPad.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I'm not saying the price point isn't steep, but I do know why they chose the specs that they did. The Keyone was consistently rated as the smartphone with hard to beat battery life. And while that may not be a function you are interested in, it is important for a lot of people. It's personally annoying if I have to carry a charging bank, USB cord, and a possible wall charger because I can't depend on my phone to get throughout a day of use

KEYone is rated at 12:46 in one test.

If power is your main concern, you ought to get a ZenFone 3 Zoom that get a 16.46 rating - pretty much same specs as the KEYone. But 5.5" AMOLED Display and Dual Rear Cameras.... all for only $329.

Huawei Mate 10 Pro at 14:39 is probable the best buy on the long battery life list... a true flagship at only $50 more than the KEYone is right now.

KEYBOARD is what BBMo has to set it apart from others....

[cckgz4]

KEYone is rated at 12:46 in one test.

If power is your main concern, you ought to get a ZenFone 3 Zoom that get a 16.46 rating - pretty much same specs as the KEYone. But 5.5" AMOLED Display and Dual Rear Cameras.... all for only $329.

Huawei Mate 10 Pro at 14:39 is probable the best buy on the long battery life list... a true flagship at only $50 more than the KEYone is right now.

KEYBOARD is what BBMo has to set it apart from others....

Power and the keyboard opens my mind to the thought of not having to type an entire email response on a vkb

And IMO that zenfone looks horrible.

[anon(10268214)]

I'll go even further:

Quick charge, wireless charge, adaptive fast charge, dash charge, power banks as well as the prevalence of charging stations in big cities are NO excuse for disappointing battery life. It's a mobile device, remember?

If you're gonna cram a power hungry OLED display with a guzzling chipset, you better cram a sizeable battery in there that will keep the phone running reliably for a full day.

Except the newer, more powerful chipsets consume less power, not more. The SD660 is manufactured on the 14nm process, that's the same as a SD820 from 2+ years ago. That's why BlackBerry needs a 3500ma battery to last up to two days. A newer chip like the 835 with a dim 4.5" LCD screen would last half a week with a battery that size, LOL.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yeah, but there's a problem with that formula. They keep saying they are competing for a piece of the premium market. And yet all the features that premium phones compete on...chipset, screen, and camera being the main ones...are all sub-par on BlackBerry devices. They are taking a big gamble by assuming the PKB (most people don't care about the BlackBerry apps or security...its Android LOL) will be enough to get people to open their wallets for a kit of parts that is far below market value in that segment. I really don't think keyboard diehards alone can support the brand in the long term.

I'm on a Pixel 2 now and I have to say while I do like the Key2 in most respects, and miss owning a BlackBerry, PKB or not - it's a tough sell for the significant spec and software support hit I have to give up for a measly $100 max in savings (and that's for unlocked; my carrier set the Key2 price only $30 lower than a full price Pixel 2).

Nobody’s arguing the facts. BBMo/TCL put up the money and chooses the strategy. Obviously, their strategy expects the Key2 to be in the sweet point they wish to build from. If they’re wrong, it’s they're money to lose. Likewise, I believe they have better data and experience to validate, at least internally, their strategy. Perhaps, a different OEM shares your strategy viewpoint and can provide more optimal devices. Like Android/IOS within the mobile OS space or Windows/macOS in desktop OS space, PKB duopoly could encourage renewed price competition and technology innovation.

[anon(10268214)]

Nobody’s arguing the facts. BBMo/TCL put up the money and chooses the strategy.

Beg to differ. There is definitely a disparity when it comes to the facts, unfortunately, because TCL is trying to pass these off as premium devices when clearly they are in a different league. A PKB a premium device does not make.

Perhaps, a different OEM shares your strategy viewpoint and can provide more optimal devices. Like Android/IOS within the mobile OS space or Windows/macOS in desktop OS space, PKB duopoly could encourage renewed price competition and technology innovation.

PKB duopoly? Chuck what are you people smoking in Florida these days, LOL.