1. an9ie's Avatar
    Hi there, I had been debating getting a Key2 vs Key LE for a few months now, even posted in the Key2 LE forum for opinions and came to the conclusion that extra $ for Key2 wasn't worth. The main things people pointed out were the weak LED light for notifications and the camera wasn't great. I have been using my KeyOne since June 2017 and was ready an upgrade so I 'googled' KeyOne vs Key2 LE and focused in on the camera and on 'paper' it seemed like the camera was better but I could have not understood the "specs" correctly. So I ordered a LE from Best Buy for $250 and it came in on Friday, I got it all set up (mostly) and love the feel of it etc. then on Saturday, I went to take a few pictures (inside with normal overhead lighting), I zoomed in some and the pictures are HORRIBLE! I wasn't excepting super high quality but decent quality, at least the quality of my KeyOne. After playing around with it for a bit it seems like the issue is when I zoom in. I haven't taken any pictures while outside yet, it's been in the negative degrees here in Alaska so I haven't been outside much during the daylight hours to see if it is just the indoor lighting causing issue.

    So, I am seriously thinking about returning it (eating the restock fee) and ordering a Key2 from GoTalkUSA but only if the camera is better than the LE and is at least as good as the KeyOne. I have been using a BlackBerry with a PKB since 2008 and am not interested in a VKB type of phone and I don't need a phone that takes top-quality pictures, just decent ones even when I zoom in some.

    P.S. I even looked at the "post pictures taken on the your Key2 LE" thread and the pictures looked good... so deceiving
    01-05-20 09:28 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    When you "zoom in", all you are really doing is cropping the picture. I'm not aware of any smartphones that have optical zoom (meaning lenses that move in and out) - they have "digital zoom" which is really just taking a full-size picture and cropping out a portion of it and enlarging that portion on the screen. If you have 2X "digital zoom" and you zoom in all the way, the resulting picture only has 1/4 of the pixels of a full-size picture. That means 16MP becomes 4MP.

    Further, while the Key cameras can take decent pictures in optimal conditions (outdoors in the day, taking a stationary picture), anything indoors is virtually always a "low-light" situation from a camera's point of view, and the Key cameras are lousy in low light. And since the sensors have poor sensitivity, the "shutter" has to be open longer to gather enough light, which means if you don't hold the camera perfectly still, all your low-light photos will be blurry from your hands shaking.

    When people compare camera pics taken outside at trees or buildings, every camera should look good - that's ideal conditions for picture-taking. What really makes a camera good is being able to get good contrast in all light levels and having good performance in low light conditions. The reason pro photographers will spend several thousand dollars or more on a single lens is because it will pass light really well.

    The fact is, for general use, the camera on the Key phones, especially the Key 2 line, are pretty poor for 2020. This isn't anything we haven't known for 18 months already. Trying to take a picture of a moving object (your kid, your dog, cars going by, etc.), trying to zoom in, or in anything but very well-lit conditions is going to give a relatively poor result compared to an iPhone, Galaxy S, Pixel, LG, or other leading camera.
    01-05-20 10:51 PM
  3. an9ie's Avatar
    When you "zoom in", all you are really doing is cropping the picture. I'm not aware of any smartphones that have optical zoom (meaning lenses that move in and out) - they have "digital zoom" which is really just taking a full-size picture and cropping out a portion of it and enlarging that portion on the screen. If you have 2X "digital zoom" and you zoom in all the way, the resulting picture only has 1/4 of the pixels of a full-size picture. That means 16MP becomes 4MP.

    Further, while the Key cameras can take decent pictures in optimal conditions (outdoors in the day, taking a stationary picture), anything indoors is virtually always a "low-light" situation from a camera's point of view, and the Key cameras are lousy in low light. And since the sensors have poor sensitivity, the "shutter" has to be open longer to gather enough light, which means if you don't hold the camera perfectly still, all your low-light photos will be blurry from your hands shaking.

    When people compare camera pics taken outside at trees or buildings, every camera should look good - that's ideal conditions for picture-taking. What really makes a camera good is being able to get good contrast in all light levels and having good performance in low light conditions. The reason pro photographers will spend several thousand dollars or more on a single lens is because it will pass light really well.

    The fact is, for general use, the camera on the Key phones, especially the Key 2 line, are pretty poor for 2020. This isn't anything we haven't known for 18 months already. Trying to take a picture of a moving object (your kid, your dog, cars going by, etc.), trying to zoom in, or in anything but very well-lit conditions is going to give a relatively poor result compared to an iPhone, Galaxy S, Pixel, LG, or other leading camera.
    Thanks, I really appreciate your time and information (especially the details on 'true' photography). I understand that the Key phones aren't the greatest picture phones, the main thing I was getting at is that 'upgrading' from a KeyOne to either Key2 shouldn't give you worse pictures. My KeyOne takes better 'zoomed' (I understand digital zoom) pictures indoors. And being as we don't see a Key3 on the horizon, I don't think I can handle the Key2 LE's camera for the next couple years before I have to completely move away from a PKB, so I wanted to know if the Key2 camera is better than the Key2 LE and at least as good as the KeyOne...
    01-06-20 12:26 AM
  4. zer0ten's Avatar
    From all accounts I've read, the Key2 camera is worse than Key1.

    Posted via CB10
    01-06-20 12:36 AM
  5. Sigewif's Avatar
    Thanks, I really appreciate your time and information (especially the details on 'true' photography). I understand that the Key phones aren't the greatest picture phones, the main thing I was getting at is that 'upgrading' from a KeyOne to either Key2 shouldn't give you worse pictures. My KeyOne takes better 'zoomed' (I understand digital zoom) pictures indoors. And being as we don't see a Key3 on the horizon, I don't think I can handle the Key2 LE's camera for the next couple years before I have to completely move away from a PKB, so I wanted to know if the Key2 camera is better than the Key2 LE and at least as good as the KeyOne...
    I have a KEYone and KEY2 and have taken numerous photos with both. I have not used The LE so can't speak for it. The KEYone takes quite good photos, as you have experienced. I wouldn't say the KEY2 is better than the KEYone but it has some features that aren't on the KEYone. One is the portrait mode. It has a dual camera. Also learning to use the camera tools on the KEY2 will help you get good shots. Taking action shots, for example, I turn off HDR as it takes two captures. Learn about the settings you can do in the manual mode and your photos will improve in quality. I have also been more successful with low light shots on my KEY2 when I made adjustments in manual. You can also edit photos that have too little light and lighten them. A photographer I heard interviewed one time said that to get to know a camera, hundreds of photos need to be taken.
    I took some fireworks photos at New Year's and got some that I was quite pleased with by adjusting the shutter speed.
    For me the KEY2 keyboard made it with the upgrade from the KEYone.
    There was a cell phone photography course that CrackBerry Kevin recommended that could help as well. It was featured on Android Central in mid December and is called the Smartphone Photography eCourse.
    Last edited by Sigewif; 01-06-20 at 11:47 AM.
    01-06-20 05:32 AM
  6. mikael11's Avatar
    AFAIK the usual setup is one lens with a longer focal lenght. So, no optical "zoom", but optical telephoto lens. In the key2 case it's just not cropped out when using 2x magnifying but optically enlarged. Going between 1x and 2x or over 2x means digital zoom with softare adjustments. However sensor and pixel size in the telephoto element is small and works nicely in good light only.
    The key2 is able to take quite good photos, watch #shotonkey2 on Instagram. The bad side in my opinion is oversharpening and the smudging in badly lit areas (probably to eliminate granularity).

    To add: Many good mobile cameras use good lenses and advanced oversampling technics to add dynamics to lower resolution images. Huawei eg also make use of black n white sensor to add details to the picture.

    When you "zoom in", all you are really doing is cropping the picture. I'm not aware of any smartphones that have optical zoom (meaning lenses that move in and out) - they have "digital zoom" which is really just taking a full-size picture and cropping out a portion of it and enlarging that portion on the screen. If you have 2X "digital zoom" and you zoom in all the way, the resulting picture only has 1/4 of the pixels of a full-size picture. That means 16MP becomes 4MP.

    Further, while the Key cameras can take decent pictures in optimal conditions (outdoors in the day, taking a stationary picture), anything indoors is virtually always a "low-light" situation from a camera's point of view, and the Key cameras are lousy in low light. And since the sensors have poor sensitivity, the "shutter" has to be open longer to gather enough light, which means if you don't hold the camera perfectly still, all your low-light photos will be blurry from your hands shaking.

    When people compare camera pics taken outside at trees or buildings, every camera should look good - that's ideal conditions for picture-taking. What really makes a camera good is being able to get good contrast in all light levels and having good performance in low light conditions. The reason pro photographers will spend several thousand dollars or more on a single lens is because it will pass light really well.

    The fact is, for general use, the camera on the Key phones, especially the Key 2 line, are pretty poor for 2020. This isn't anything we haven't known for 18 months already. Trying to take a picture of a moving object (your kid, your dog, cars going by, etc.), trying to zoom in, or in anything but very well-lit conditions is going to give a relatively poor result compared to an iPhone, Galaxy S, Pixel, LG, or other leading camera.
    Last edited by mikael11; 01-06-20 at 02:28 PM.
    01-06-20 05:37 AM

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