[Byrese]

As a consumer I'm getting more and more concerned about privacy these days. I'm sick of seeing ad on my FB feed about a comment I just made or a movie I just saw. And sure...all companies do it but Google literally exists to capture my data and what they capture tends to be more specific.

I've never EVER really considered using an iPhone but I'm getting more concerned about privacy. And from what I've read (see links below) it seems like Apple is far less intrusive (and specific) in what they capture and the amount than Android.

So my question is, how many of you are concerned about privacy via Android? And does BB on android really make a difference?

I'm not posting this to make a statement or anything (I'm no cyber security expert). I'm genuinely thinking through this and curious on thoughts from the community.

http://privacyinternational.org/repo...acebook-report

https://gizmodo.com/why-choosing-bet...ers-1822976032

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/android...ews-27856.html

[RK_BB]

I am not concerend simply because I have got nothing to hide but I would certainly be willing to pay more for technology that could keep my life a little more private.

Put it this way, if I had to choose between privacy and experience for the same price I would probably end up going for experience...

BTW, I suggest you add a Poll to you post. You can do so using a browser.

[RegN]

Well I have no great insight either and curious to hear others. I know I have thought often of how much stuff they track on us. I believe it is going to get a lot worse before ever getting better. I know nothing on iPhone but the fact I will never own a apple product but that is a personal think like never owning a Ford. I know as much as I hate it I keep adding stuff to my life. First time I heard of Google pay and apple pay I laughed and no way. Now I have android phone I use it. Not sure how close to Cliff edge we walk till we are in free fall and no return. I have turned off some of the Google tracking or at least Google telling me about it. That annoying notification asking how I liked a place. Probably still tracking just not letting me know as much.

[mralgi]

As a consumer I'm getting more and more concerned about privacy these days. I'm sick of seeing ad on my FB feed about a comment I just made or a movie I just saw. And sure...all companies do it but Google literally exists to capture my data and what they capture tends to be more specific.

I've never EVER really considered using an iPhone but I'm getting more concerned about privacy. And from what I've read (see links below) it seems like Apple is far less intrusive (and specific) in what they capture and the amount than Android.

So my question is, how many of you are concerned about privacy via Android? And does BB on android really make a difference?

I'm not posting this to make a statement or anything (I'm no cyber security expert). I'm genuinely thinking through this and curious on thoughts from the community.

http://privacyinternational.org/repo...acebook-report

https://gizmodo.com/why-choosing-bet...ers-1822976032

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/android...ews-27856.html

Great question.

Do I feel Android, including BlackBerry Android, is less secure than iOS and Apple? Hell yes.

At the same time, let's talk about 'secure'. If there's something that I wouldn't want someone seeing, seeing me do or know that I've done, it's not a good idea to dive into that type of activity on any type of electronic device. Phone, computer, tablet, whatever. If it's on the device, it's accessible to others.

Do not for one second assume that anything you do on any of your devices is private (I'm guessing you don't) - regardless of the device or OS. If certain people or entities want what is on your device, they will get it. I can certify that for you and stamp it. It's the world we live in.

So...my advice is to choose either Android or iOS or whatever other platform works best for you and makes your life easier, more productive and enjoyable.

[Byrese]

When I say "privacy" I don't mean nude pics etc. or them trying to get access to some notorious secret. Desiring privacy has has nothing to do with hiding anything. We all have a right to keep any and all info about our lives (including where we've been or what movie we've just watched or the conversation about trying to find a great taco place) private.

Meta data is one thing but specific stuff to build profiles on people individually is concerning. Read that first link.

[SuperFister]

I was selling my Key1 Yesterday. Before, I disconnected it from "the Google". so I logged in and was shocked about the " Web activity".

I was sure I had it in pause. but it was on fir the last days. maybe because I tried the Google assistance on. there were even the voice command which I could re-hear. last places, Google searches etc.

I asked myself: why? why on earth do you that to your customers?

and it is a hassle to delete that crap. very sad.

I instantly thought about my BB10 devices. All in the phone. No tracking,. No cloud BS.

[Chuck Finley69]

When I say "privacy" I don't mean nude pics etc. or them trying to get access to some notorious secret. Desiring privacy has has nothing to do with hiding anything. We all have a right to keep any and all info about our lives (including where we've been or what movie we've just watched or the conversation about trying to find a great taco place) private.

Meta data is one thing but specific stuff to build profiles on people individually is concerning. Read that first link.

I agree we have a right to privacy, until we knowingly give up that privacy, choosing to enter a medium, that requires divulging, for entry into the medium. Ultimately, the medium allows us convenience, which is societal weakness.

[anon(10218918)]

I am not concerend simply because I have got nothing to hide but I would certainly be willing to pay more for technology that could keep my life a little more private.

Put it this way, if I had to choose between privacy and experience for the same price I would probably end up going for experience...

BTW, I suggest you add a Poll to you post. You can do so using a browser.

[RK_BB]

@CrackPriv it depends to what extent "free speech" is taken. Some people / groups abuse the term well beyond its true meaning.

That said, this is a sensitive topic that though related should not be discussed here if we want this post to stay open...

[anon(10218918)]

@CrackPriv it depends to what extent "free speech" is taken. Some people / groups abuse the term well beyond its true meaning.

That said, this is a sensitive topic that though related should not be discussed here if we want this post to stay open...

It was my answer to the "I have nothing to hide"-post above. This "I have nothing to hide"-mentality and the believe in profit over all will kill freedom for us all.

[chetmanley]

So my question is, how many of you are concerned about privacy via Android? And does BB on android really make a difference?

I'm quite concerned. But lets differentiate between privacy and security. They are different.

BB on Android provides DTEK which provides permission monitoring which is excellent and helps with privacy.

BB Android is the most secure version you can buy. I would argue more secure than iOS because no company has claimed to be able to defeat BB device encryption, but a number of companies claim to do this on iOS.

Privacy wise - Beyond above average permission control and monitoring, BB Android does nothing other android devices or iOS cant.

If you want a private BB Android device that leverages it's security - Delete facebook, disable Google Services (including Gmail and Chrome), run Tor and a Firewall.

You can't run Tor or a Firewall on iOS. Therefore, any android phone can be more private than iOS. However, no device is as secure as a BB.

[Smokeaire]

I agree. Every individual should have the right and the control over what information about ourselves can be made public and what remains private or shared between trusted friends.

[Byrese]

I'm quite concerned. But lets differentiate between privacy and security. They are different.
.

Dead on with your differentiation between privacy and security. I was thinking the exact same thing.

[RK_BB]

It was my answer to the "I have nothing to hide"-post above. This "I have nothing to hide"-mentality and the believe in profit over all will kill freedom for us all.

I know exactly what was your answer with regards to.

The fact Snowden said what he said doesn't mean he is right. Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with Privacy issues.

I maintain my position; I have got nothing to hide and happy to give my government access to any of the technology I use in the name of national security. If they abuse it and use it for other reasons (which I personally do not beleive they do) then tough luck! Protest the matter and join a political party that can make a change.

As for Google or any other company having access to information related to my life, as I said I am willing to pay more for technology that will keep my life a little more private but if I had to choose between sharing information in exchange for convenience (giving up convenience in exchange for privacy) I am pretty sure that at some point I will cave in and go for convenience.

...lets differentiate between privacy and security. They are different.

[Chuck Finley69]

I know exactly what was your answer with regards to.

The fact Snowden said what he said doesn't mean he is right. Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with Privacy issues.

I maintain my position; I have got nothing to hide and happy to give my government access to any of the technology I use in the name of national security. If they abuse it and use it for other reasons (which I personally do not beleive they do) then tough luck! Protest the matter and join a political party that can make a change.

As for Google or any other company having access to information related to my life, as I said I am willing to pay more for technology that will keep my life a little more private but if I had to choose between sharing information in exchange for convenience (giving up convenience in exchange for privacy) I am pretty sure that at some point I will cave in and go for convenience.

This is true and I’m just as willing to make concessions for convenience as things now stand. The vast majority of consumers are same and why the Android/IOS duopoly exists today.

[RegN]

Good conversations. On thing may have mentioned and I missed it is all this stuff we have access too like Google would be very expensive they didn't do what they do for adds. I hate adds and do try to pay to rid them when I can. Google tracking is how they maintain doing what they do. I enjoy Google Earth can't phathom the cost to make that happen. So in the end I hope with poor privacy I hope I have strong security.

Blackberry KEY² Silver Edition
Reg

[anon(10387168)]

Not concerned at all! Now to qualify that statement, I am against any intrusion to privacy, but that is not the world we now live in! So, I view this issue as a necessary evil in this day and age!

[chetmanley]

Not concerned at all! Now to qualify that statement, I am against any intrusion to privacy, but that is not the world we now live in! So, I view this issue as a necessary evil in this day and age!

I would argue it isn't necessary at all. The level of privacy intrusion any given person has permitted is entirely attributed to their choices.

If the world in which that person lives involves being consumed by continuous social network use, then that is their choice, but it certainly isn't necessary. Their choice to use Chrome over any other available browser isn't necessary. Their choice to run Google services on an Android phone isn't necessary.

There are techniques to combat these intrusions to privacy, and it's not even difficult to do, but it does take a conscious effort and the battle never ends. The techniques must evolve as the methods of intrusion evolve. It's a similar to an arms race.

The issue isn't that it is a necessary evil, the real issues in my opinion are that most people are either ignorant to the intrusion, and/or have simply given up without even trying to win.

[RK_BB]

I would argue it isn't necessary at all. The level of privacy intrusion any given person has permitted is entirely attributed to their choices.

If the world in which that person lives involves being consumed by continuous social network use, then that is their choice, but it certainly isn't necessary. Their choice to use Chrome over any other available browser isn't necessary. Their choice to run Google services on an Android phone isn't necessary.

There are techniques to combat these intrusions to privacy, and it's not even difficult to do, but it does take a conscious effort and the battle never ends. The techniques must evolve as the methods of intrusion evolve. It's a similar to an arms race.

The issue isn't that it is a necessary evil, the real issues in my opinion are that most people are either ignorant to the intrusion, and/or have simply given up without even trying to win.

That's correct. The average user is provided with a device and services they are happy to use whilst not having the slightest clue as to what is happening in the background as they enjoy the convenience, interactivity and communication.

[skrble]

I am the one who usually thinks and decides before hitting "I agree with...", deleted a lot of downloaded apps just because of that. Also always looking for apps with the least number of permissions (calculator, QR code scanners etc.). Always checking settings at first, rejecting cookies, setting off Google's prompts (even the location one) etc. Often it is only comfort vs limited usability, which I am OK with, I know that it's a bit crazy. I am definitely not Orwell-obsessed, just like to get through with as less "I agrees" as possible. Kind of my nature. :-)

I've done it on other phones/PC's too and would have done it on a no-name phone either. Still an user only, so I am just trying to keep some basic habits and hope it actually little decreases my Internet footprint.

On my old Xperia, I heavily used Xprivacy (along with other Xposed modules). Those were the days. You could've managed app permissions to the point that current Android or BB10 permission manager was total ridiculously limited. You could've blocked every single thing you decided. Sometimes it resulted to app crash, sometimes just certain things stopped running. But usually nothing happened and everything ran OK. It used to be sort of crazy as well, it was more playing with the settings than really getting fluent and simple experience. Don't recommend it to others.

[ZahidShad]

I was selling my Key1 Yesterday. Before, I disconnected it from "the Google". so I logged in and was shocked about the " Web activity".

I was sure I had it in pause. but it was on fir the last days. maybe because I tried the Google assistance on. there were even the voice command which I could re-hear. last places, Google searches etc.

I asked myself: why? why on earth do you that to your customers?

and it is a hassle to delete that crap. very sad.

I instantly thought about my BB10 devices. All in the phone. No tracking,. No cloud BS.

BB10 didn't have good app support but is was so privacy focused. Maybe that's why main stream developers stopped / didn't support it in the first place because of how strict BlackBerry were in enforcing no tracking etc.

[gsgdadgasg]

Dead on with your differentiation between privacy and security. I was thinking the exact same thing.

How does it matter that they're different?

How can you have personal information security if you have no personal information privacy and vice versa?

Android is a total joke when it comes to privacy and security. Android is overpriced Trojan Horse spyware. Period. The only difference with "real" spyware is that most of us don't call it that yet because we don't know better. Examples:

1. Google knows what website you visit and when as Android's default DNS client config = Google DNS. There's no way around that. Even if you use a VPN with a seperate DNS you will still leak your real IP and exit IP on Android startup and/or VPN switching. If you use apps that rely on the internet (pretty much all apps ever) Google will know which ones you are using when (unless you use a VPN which forces a different DNS server).
2. Google knows where your phone (and thus you) are every second of the day if you use any apps that rely on Google location services (pretty much all apps that use location do, think of Maps, Tinder, other navigation apps, banking apps, etc). Even when the apps are turned off your location is tracked, uploaded to Google, recorded and sold through the built-in Android Google location services. There was recently a huge article about this in Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vacy-apps.html
3. Google knows which apps you use when and what functionality of apps you use because pretty much all apps rely on "Google services".
4. Google sells all of the above data to anybody who is willing to pay for it.
5. Google (fully automatically) provides all of the above non-anonymous fingerprinted data free of charge to any party that has the right to access such data by law (and in secret): NSA, NSA partners around the world and all other government agencies of any country that has legal access to wherever the servers are hosted.
6. Google pretends it only sells "anonymous" data, but as the NYT article above shows it is easy to "fingerprint" the data and link name, address, work address, friend names, phone numbers, facebook profiles, etc to the "anonymous" data.

Or to put it differently: Android is super "secure" in making sure all your private information leaks to various third parties through only 1 central point: Google.


At this point I'm not sure if arguing about whether this is a "security leak" or a "privacy leak" is relevant at all. As IMO this is clearly both.

This is also why I chuckle when I hear people claim that a modern Blackberry is a "business phone". I probably don't have to explain why working with sensitive documents on an Android phone would be a ridiculous idea?

[Chuck Finley69]

How does it matter that they're different?

How can you have personal information security if you have no personal information privacy and vice versa?

Android is a total joke when it comes to privacy and security. Android is overpriced Trojan Horse spyware. Period. The only difference with "real" spyware is that most of us don't call it that yet because we don't know better. Examples:

1. Google knows what website you visit and when as Android's default DNS client config = Google DNS. There's no way around that. Even if you use a VPN with a seperate DNS you will still leak your real IP and exit IP on Android startup and/or VPN switching. If you use apps that rely on the internet (pretty much all apps ever) Google will know which ones you are using when (unless you use a VPN which forces a different DNS server).
2. Google knows where your phone (and thus you) are every second of the day if you use any apps that rely on Google location services (pretty much all apps that use location do, think of Maps, Tinder, other navigation apps, banking apps, etc). Even when the apps are turned off your location is tracked, uploaded to Google, recorded and sold through the built-in Android Google location services. There was recently a huge article about this in Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vacy-apps.html
3. Google knows which apps you use when and what functionality of apps you use because pretty much all apps rely on "Google services".
4. Google sells all of the above data to anybody who is willing to pay for it.
5. Google (fully automatically) provides all of the above non-anonymous fingerprinted data free of charge to any party that has the right to access such data by law (and in secret): NSA, NSA partners around the world and all other government agencies of any country that has legal access to wherever the servers are hosted.
6. Google pretends it only sells "anonymous" data, but as the NYT article above shows it is easy to "fingerprint" the data and link name, address, work address, friend names, phone numbers, facebook profiles, etc to the "anonymous" data.

Or to put it differently: Android is super "secure" in making sure all your private information leaks to various third parties through only 1 central point: Google.


At this point I'm not sure if arguing about whether this is a "security leak" or a "privacy leak" is relevant at all. As IMO this is clearly both.

This is also why I chuckle when I hear people claim that a modern Blackberry is a "business phone". I probably don't have to explain why working with sensitive documents on an Android phone would be a ridiculous idea?

Yet all the regulators that I have to answer to for Reg SP and HIPAA privacy guidelines have no problem with how Android/IOS accesses, compiles or stores data within Android/IOS devices I use. Ironically, BB10 wasn’t approved or supported beyond email through basic understood industry protocols.

[anon(10562251)]

How does it matter that they're different?

How can you have personal information security if you have no personal information privacy and vice versa?

Android is a total joke when it comes to privacy and security. Android is overpriced Trojan Horse spyware. Period. The only difference with "real" spyware is that most of us don't call it that yet because we don't know better. Examples:

1. Google knows what website you visit and when as Android's default DNS client config = Google DNS. There's no way around that. Even if you use a VPN with a seperate DNS you will still leak your real IP and exit IP on Android startup and/or VPN switching. If you use apps that rely on the internet (pretty much all apps ever) Google will know which ones you are using when (unless you use a VPN which forces a different DNS server).
2. Google knows where your phone (and thus you) are every second of the day if you use any apps that rely on Google location services (pretty much all apps that use location do, think of Maps, Tinder, other navigation apps, banking apps, etc). Even when the apps are turned off your location is tracked, uploaded to Google, recorded and sold through the built-in Android Google location services. There was recently a huge article about this in Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vacy-apps.html
3. Google knows which apps you use when and what functionality of apps you use because pretty much all apps rely on "Google services".
4. Google sells all of the above data to anybody who is willing to pay for it.
5. Google (fully automatically) provides all of the above non-anonymous fingerprinted data free of charge to any party that has the right to access such data by law (and in secret): NSA, NSA partners around the world and all other government agencies of any country that has legal access to wherever the servers are hosted.
6. Google pretends it only sells "anonymous" data, but as the NYT article above shows it is easy to "fingerprint" the data and link name, address, work address, friend names, phone numbers, facebook profiles, etc to the "anonymous" data.

Or to put it differently: Android is super "secure" in making sure all your private information leaks to various third parties through only 1 central point: Google.


At this point I'm not sure if arguing about whether this is a "security leak" or a "privacy leak" is relevant at all. As IMO this is clearly both.

This is also why I chuckle when I hear people claim that a modern Blackberry is a "business phone". I probably don't have to explain why working with sensitive documents on an Android phone would be a ridiculous idea?

Welcome to the 21st century.

[chetmanley]

How does it matter that they're different?

How can you have personal information security if you have no personal information privacy and vice versa?

This is how I view the topic:
Ideally, they go hand in hand. However they can be mutually exclusive and it changes with perspective. Something can be secure, but not private and vise versa. True security with privacy can be challenging on the exact same system on the same level. Typically one system will provide the security while another will keep it in check with privacy.

For example. A password keeper that doesn't communicate with the internet is private, but only when the application is locked from unauthorized physical access is it also secure.

On the topic of Blackberry devices; on the OS level, the system is secure and by extension, the data sitting on the device is secure, and therefore private.

However, it's not the data itself that is being breached (photos, files etc) but due to a combination of the ways people use their devices and the spyware loaded onto them from the factory, bad actors can monitor, collect and infer details of everyday life, whether that's for surveillance or monetization.
Therefore additional systems (software and app choices) are required to complement the device security in an attempt to provide privacy.

The analogy I've used recently is this: A BB device is a glass house (bullet proof glass, if you will), and it has a Fort Knox front door protecting what's inside from physical access.

However, people (governments, corporations, whomever) can still see into this house. They can infer what is going on based solely on the information that is leaking out through the glass.

To make this house Private, Blackberry needs to offer metaphorical window blinds to their customers. With these, the user can choose what to share and when. These blinds would come in the form of an OS which has as much spyware stripped away from the factory as possible, and a Firewall which catches everything else. To hide the identity of who is in the house, combinations of Tor and VPN must be used.

Only when this is achieved do we have security with privacy on a BB Device, IMO.

Android is a total joke when it comes to privacy and security. Android is overpriced Trojan Horse spyware. Period. The only difference with "real" spyware is that most of us don't call it that yet because we don't know better.

Android itself isn't the issue. It is supposed to be open source software. What Google is allowed to package into the Android in exchange for Google Play Store access is the issue.

I've said it before - Google Services are not required to run the phone. And they can be disabled.

However, if a user chooses not to disable them, then what you describe is true. Again, that's the users prerogative.

This is also why I chuckle when I hear people claim that a modern Blackberry is a "business phone". I probably don't have to explain why working with sensitive documents on an Android phone would be a ridiculous idea?

I agree. I think BB should offer a PRD of their devices with as much spyware removed as possible which can be purchased in any market for users, governments or corporations who want it.