06-03-20 04:50 AM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The Passport was a BlackBerry phone. The fact that Wistron was hired by BlackBerry to manufacture it was irrelevant.

    TCL, or HMD Global for that matter, are companies that pay a fee for the use of a brand name, which they then slap on their OWN phones - which they are solely responsible for.

    That's how licencing works. Hundreds (well, thousands) of brands are licenced around the world. It's just how it works in many cases. The owners of the brand name don't take any responsibility for what its licencees do, nor do they receive enough money from them to "step-in" if something goes awry.

    BlackBerry felt it was better to licence the mobile brand name than to immediately dissolve it.

    Try going after Nokia for anything related to HMD Global phones made under the "Nokia" brand and see how far you get.
    Will say it's pretty clear that BlackBerry really was done with smartphones and even consumers. They way some of the licensee abandon their products was a black mark against the brand. TCL has done as good, or better than BlackBerry themselves... who has left a few products out in the cold without updates. (PlayBook, DTEKs)

    It's over... folks have to face that.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    05-26-20 11:15 AM
  2. chain13's Avatar
    Will say it's pretty clear that BlackBerry really was done with smartphones and even consumers. They way some of the licensee abandon their products was a black mark against the brand. TCL has done as good, or better than BlackBerry themselves... who has left a few products out in the cold without updates. (PlayBook, DTEKs)

    It's over... folks have to face that.
    If I were TCL, I would license only the pkb. The hardware design and software (updste and support) will be manufactured inhouse by TCL themselves (using TCL brand instead). This way could make the device even less expensive, maybe.
    05-26-20 11:33 PM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    If I were TCL, I would license only the pkb. The hardware design and software (updste and support) will be manufactured inhouse by TCL themselves (using TCL brand instead). This way could make the device even less expensive, maybe.
    But how many would buy without the Brand? HUB+ Suite of Apps? Security? or any hope of patches or updates?

    I don't think cutting the price by $50 - $100 is going to off set the loss of those things.
    05-27-20 07:03 AM
  4. jojetski's Avatar
    So none of us are willing to pay millions to get this going. Most of us don't have the money to bring a lawsuit (and probably lose) to force this. We can debate back and forth about a slide shown to some customers and who said what. But what can we really do.....(thinks) what can we really do if we want pie? How about @Bla1ze creates a post that contains the following:

    The address for TCL headquarters and the address for Blackberry's headquarters.
    The contact information for a bakery in both of those locations who will deliver a pie.
    Everyone who truly wants pie spends $10 (or so, just an estimate) to have a pie delivered to each address with the message "We want pie for the Key 2"
    When a decent amount have been delivered (the bakery's will report to Bla1ze for all the business they just received) Bla1ze gets some of his fellow media folks to report on the story.
    Bakery's stay in business and maybe we get Pie for the Key 2. Is your key 2 worth a $20 investment?
    05-28-20 06:38 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    TCL is a multi-billion-dollar company with at least partial Chinese state ownership. They're not going to care one bit about the few thousand dollars (max!) that you'd likely raise with some crowdfunding idea, especially when they'd need to pay BB some amount in the millions of US dollars in order to get BB to deliver a Pie update. And that assumes that there's anyone around at BB Ltd. who could do that - it's quite likely that those developers were either reassigned or let go 2+ years ago.

    This is exactly why corporations buy products from market leaders OR from new companies who are growing and may become market leaders - but almost never buy from companies that are bleeding money and rapidly losing marketshare: those corporations recognize that long-term support is important, and that you can rarely count on companies that are having money and marketshare problems to deliver long-term support. Market leaders are usually the only ones in the position to deliver long-term support, and that's why they get the orders. In other words, that's why if you are issued a company phone, it's almost certainly going to have an Apple or Samsung logo on it, even if there are better or cheaper products on the market.

    As a consumer, you also took a risk buying from a company that was struggling, and many of us have been cautioning people for years that the future was far from uncertain and not particularly bright for BB-branded handsets. If you chose to take that risk anyway, you shouldn't be surprised that it came back to bite you. That happens - fairly often in fact.

    You need to accept that Pie is never coming to any Key phone, because it isn't. BB's smartphone business is finished. Over. Done with. You've already gotten everything you're going to get, so if that's not enough, then you'll have to take a look at your non-BB-branded options. From a consumer/smartphone standpoint, BB has left the building and turned off the lights.
    John Albert likes this.
    05-29-20 12:28 AM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    TCL is a multi-billion-dollar company with at least partial Chinese state ownership. They're not going to care one bit about the few thousand dollars (max!) that you'd likely raise with some crowdfunding idea, especially when they'd need to pay BB some amount in the millions of US dollars in order to get BB to deliver a Pie update. And that assumes that there's anyone around at BB Ltd. who could do that - it's quite likely that those developers were either reassigned or let go 2+ years ago.

    This is exactly why corporations buy products from market leaders OR from new companies who are growing and may become market leaders - but almost never buy from companies that are bleeding money and rapidly losing marketshare: those corporations recognize that long-term support is important, and that you can rarely count on companies that are having money and marketshare problems to deliver long-term support. Market leaders are usually the only ones in the position to deliver long-term support, and that's why they get the orders. In other words, that's why if you are issued a company phone, it's almost certainly going to have an Apple or Samsung logo on it, even if there are better or cheaper products on the market.

    As a consumer, you also took a risk buying from a company that was struggling, and many of us have been cautioning people for years that the future was far from uncertain and not particularly bright for BB-branded handsets. If you chose to take that risk anyway, you shouldn't be surprised that it came back to bite you. That happens - fairly often in fact.

    You need to accept that Pie is never coming to any Key phone, because it isn't. BB's smartphone business is finished. Over. Done with. You've already gotten everything you're going to get, so if that's not enough, then you'll have to take a look at your non-BB-branded options. From a consumer/smartphone standpoint, BB has left the building and turned off the lights.
    The five stages of grief are:
    - denial.
    - anger.
    - bargaining.
    - depression.
    - acceptance

    jojetski still at the bargaining stage.
    chain13 likes this.
    05-29-20 08:07 AM
  7. joeldf's Avatar
    The five stages of grief are:
    - denial.
    - anger.
    - bargaining.
    - depression.
    - acceptance

    jojetski still at the bargaining stage.
    There are a some members here still in the bargaining stage for BB10. My wife thinks I'm still in the denial stage for even visiting this site as much as I do.
    05-29-20 08:51 AM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    There are a some members here still in the bargaining stage for BB10. My wife thinks I'm still in the denial stage for even visiting this site as much as I do.
    Visiting here is has more to do with addiction, than grief....
    05-29-20 08:59 AM
  9. jojetski's Avatar
    The five stages of grief are:
    - denial.
    - anger.
    - bargaining.
    - depression.
    - acceptance

    jojetski still at the bargaining stage.
    Thanks Dunt that is funny. My favorite version of this is to go to youtube and search for Monk Five Stages of Grief. Best version of it in about 4 minutes with all five stages. I know were not getting pie for the Key 2. I have already accepted (months ago) there would not be a Key 3 and I have started to watch the new versions of Pixel and Samsung to decide which one to buy next. Had my Key 2's (me and two family members) for about 2 years now so we will need to switch sooner rather than later. However, I still think it would be a fun stunt to pull off, kind of bookend the end of this long journey for me since my first blackberry color wheel click model and owning blackberry's until now. Might as well as have some fun on our way out the door. The one thing I do wish is that the Hub application suite would continue and I will buy it for the next phone I buy however I put it at a 1% chance of it surviving at this point.
    05-30-20 01:29 PM
  10. chain13's Avatar
    But how many would buy without the Brand? HUB+ Suite of Apps? Security? or any hope of patches or updates?

    I don't think cutting the price by $50 - $100 is going to off set the loss of those things.
    Depends on the price, how good the device, and support they will give.
    05-31-20 07:37 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Depends on the price, how good the device, and support they will give.
    We already have the answer. Just look at those spectacular Titan numbers. PKB in any form is a loser proposition
    05-31-20 08:30 AM
  12. chain13's Avatar
    We already have the answer. Just look at those spectacular Titan numbers. PKB in any form is a loser proposition
    Unihertz is operating localy in china. They don’t have international legal access to sell their phone. If they go outside the wall, likely they will get sued by law due to IP violation. Maybe thats why they decided to lay low.
    05-31-20 08:56 AM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Unihertz is operating localy in china. They don’t have international legal access to sell their phone. If they go outside the wall, likely they will get sued by law due to IP violation. Maybe thats why they decided to lay low.
    They're as much in the open as the other various OEMs, they complied after BlackBerry sent them cease and desist. They're own internal data will prove and decide that any PKB hardware is a loser proposition.

    It's the same regardless of where you start on the brand/feature spectrum. Even the Jio device hasn't produced a successor that I'm aware of. The PKB form is a victim of the same issues that belies anything outlier, including OS development, whether BB10 or some other alternatives.

    The dissatisfied are too fragmented. The use cases are too fragmented. Horse and buggy, candle, kerosene lamp, manual transmission and the PKB have all disappeared because nostalgia isn't enough to stop progress.

    Posted via CB10
    05-31-20 10:24 AM
  14. YeahIgottheKey2's Avatar
    I'm glad I jumped ship and got a Pixel 3a. What a mess!
    06-01-20 06:56 AM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I'm glad I jumped ship and got a Pixel 3a. What a mess!
    I was the same way going to iPhone XR but I don’t really see a mess. The Key series and the Motion were better than nothing.
    06-01-20 09:30 AM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I was the same way going to iPhone XR but I don’t really see a mess. The Key series and the Motion were better than nothing.
    Mess is anyone that really expected BBMo to do what BlackBerry could not.... especially with the weak effort they put into things with the KEYone. By the time the KEY2 launched, and there was no US carrier on board? It was clear at that point that this wasn't going anywhere.

    But without BBMo, PRIV would have been the last PKBish phone.... unless someone things Samsung or Huawei would have stepped in?
    06-01-20 09:39 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Mess is anyone that really expected BBMo to do what BlackBerry could not.... especially with the weak effort they put into things with the KEYone. By the time the KEY2 launched, and there was no US carrier on board? It was clear at that point that this wasn't going anywhere.

    But without BBMo, PRIV would have been the last PKBish phone.... unless someone things Samsung or Huawei would have stepped in?
    Nothing ever stopped another OEM so I feel that can be safely ruled out.



    Typed on $27.00 USD all in TCL A1 VKB just I've always been a smartarse......
    06-01-20 04:32 PM
  18. iUser's Avatar
    Cool then. I think key is unique, even if it only has input method different than other masses (pkb). Though I just don't think it priced properly to takes almost double the price than the rest of competition with same league internals (not to mention that others has much better value in software/aftersales support, camera, and other features). And I dont think pkb alone could make the (almost double) price different worthy to be justified as wellpriced.
    In the end, unique or not, it'll end up to be used to do the same tasks, it's just phone anyway
    It still depends how a product was envisioned by a manufacturer. Xiaomi wants its products to be used by a lot of users a.k.a. bigger market share. TCL on the other hand, thought that BlackBerry branded devices would only be just a niche products.

    Analogue comparison against watches would be like Swatch vs. Mido (Rolex would be too pricey). Simply said, they're just watches with similar functions, yet with different materials and brands. Some "high end" Swatches are actually better built that some "low end" Midos, yet they're more affordable.
    06-01-20 05:17 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    It still depends how a product was envisioned by a manufacturer. Xiaomi wants its products to be used by a lot of users a.k.a. bigger market share. TCL on the other hand, thought that BlackBerry branded devices would only be just a niche products.

    Analogue comparison against watches would be like Swatch vs. Mido (Rolex would be too pricey). Simply said, they're just watches with similar functions, yet with different materials and brands. Some "high end" Swatches are actually better built that some "low end" Midos, yet they're more affordable.
    BlackBerry PKB was a niche product. BlackBerry VKB was supposed to be a mainstream product.
    iUser likes this.
    06-01-20 06:02 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    It still depends how a product was envisioned by a manufacturer. Xiaomi wants its products to be used by a lot of users a.k.a. bigger market share. TCL on the other hand, thought that BlackBerry branded devices would only be just a niche products.

    Analogue comparison against watches would be like Swatch vs. Mido (Rolex would be too pricey). Simply said, they're just watches with similar functions, yet with different materials and brands. Some "high end" Swatches are actually better built that some "low end" Midos, yet they're more affordable.
    A hardware keyboard on a smartphone is the very definition of niche.
    chain13 and iUser like this.
    06-01-20 06:16 PM
  21. chain13's Avatar
    It still depends how a product was envisioned by a manufacturer. Xiaomi wants its products to be used by a lot of users a.k.a. bigger market share. TCL on the other hand, thought that BlackBerry branded devices would only be just a niche products.

    Analogue comparison against watches would be like Swatch vs. Mido (Rolex would be too pricey). Simply said, they're just watches with similar functions, yet with different materials and brands. Some "high end" Swatches are actually better built that some "low end" Midos, yet they're more affordable.
    I would say that just because TCL didn’t(couldn’t) sell many number of products, simply makes those products a niche. We all know that what makes keys much more expensive is the brand license and low number production, not because it’s a good, advance, rocket science device or something. Of course they have plus and minus, but on the end, no matter how you call it niche, it just serves the same purposes like the others.
    06-01-20 09:23 PM
  22. chain13's Avatar
    A hardware keyboard on a smartphone is the very definition of niche.
    I don’t think so. Pkb was just old tech of 19xx. Becoming less and less adopted (now) doesn’t simply make it “niche”.
    06-01-20 09:27 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    I don’t think so. Pkb was just old tech of 19xx. Becoming less and less adopted (now) doesn’t simply make it “niche”.
    Niche: denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.
    06-01-20 10:17 PM
  24. iUser's Avatar
    I don’t think so. Pkb was just old tech of 19xx. Becoming less and less adopted (now) doesn’t simply make it “niche”.
    It is your opinion. TCL had probably another opinion, just by observing how its latest product TCL 10 Pro is priced. Btw, for me personally, Key2 was an expensive phone and I just bought it - used from the bay - two weeks ago.

    BlackBerry is of course still active in searching another manufacturer. If you think you could give it your best shot to be THE next BlackBerry manufacturer with a better pricing strategy, I don't think people would mind.
    06-01-20 10:52 PM
  25. chain13's Avatar
    It is your opinion. TCL had probably another opinion, just by observing how its latest product TCL 10 Pro is priced. Btw, for me personally, Key2 was an expensive phone and I just bought it - used from the bay - two weeks ago.

    BlackBerry is of course still active in searching another manufacturer. If you think you could give it your best shot to be THE next BlackBerry manufacturer with a better pricing strategy, I don't think people would mind.
    Yes that's my opinion. TCL just couldn't sell enough number to keep the BBMo goes on, not because they intended to make it niche.
    TCL on the other hand, thought that BlackBerry branded devices would only be just a niche products.
    That's also your opinion, No? I personaly think that TCL market and sell BBMo device to mass market (not only niche).
    Niche: denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.
    Agree on that definiton of word. Analogy that would apply is like casual shoe for mass people that they could use mostly all the time, but there are also some specific shoes that niche to specific time and use case. Like safety shoe for people who work in industry, it has durability, steel on its toe cap for protection. Or mountain shoe that need to be durable, flexible, and strong anti slipery outsole. They're both could serve the same purpose for walking like casual shoe. But some specifics features set excel them in some specific tasks/use cases.
    That's how I think niche product is. Pkb on the other hand, just serves the same purpose like vkb, as text input. The device who has pkb itself, also run nothing different than the others. I just (disagree) don't think there is a specialized section/works/use case that actually need a pkb on a phone to be categorized as niche or specific segment. If it just a phone that appeals to some people then Yes I agree. Is it a niche, no. That's all my opinion, but you're free to call yourself niche.
    Last edited by chain13; 06-02-20 at 05:50 AM.
    06-02-20 02:25 AM
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