[chain13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhe...29?wprov=sfla1

Try this at home. Take a huge number, and divide it by a small number.

Good article. But I don't need to do this thing everytime I wanna buy a phone or product just to justify the price, I rather do a simple comparison with other device, that's all my point in this conversation.

[chain13]

Advertising costs have to be included. There's no special advertising budget that doesn't go into a device price. Advertising would have driven the price up even more but it would have been a waste of money.

So 650$ isn't advertising cost included? Crazy

[conite]

Good article. But I don't need to do this thing everytime I wanna buy a phone or product just to justify the price, I rather do a simple comparison with other device, that's all my point in this conversation.

Cool. I guess you'll always have to stick to the mainstream then as you can't properly evaluate unique products.

[chain13]

Cool. I guess you'll always have to stick to the mainstream then as you can't properly evaluate unique products.

Cool then. I think key is unique, even if it only has input method different than other masses (pkb). Though I just don't think it priced properly to takes almost double the price than the rest of competition with same league internals (not to mention that others has much better value in software/aftersales support, camera, and other features). And I dont think pkb alone could make the (almost double) price different worthy to be justified as wellpriced.
In the end, unique or not, it'll end up to be used to do the same tasks, it's just phone anyway

[gillespascoucou]

Yes, and Samsung spread those development costs over the 300 million smartphones they sold last year alone.

On the other side of the spectrum, BBMo had no interest in the sub-10,000 unit market.

Seems like you have an axe to grind rather than wanting to have a sober business discussion.

I appreciate your hard work in this forum and I almost always agree with you. But. Let's be real : BlackBerry had a record of underpowering their devices.

•Q series using a 2 years old SD chip
• Priv (only 3 gigs of RAM with a painful SD 808 chip)
• Key series (except Key2)

[Chuck Finley69]

I appreciate your hard work in this forum and I almost always agree with you. But. Let's be real : BlackBerry had a record of underpowering their devices.

•Q series using a 2 years old SD chip
• Priv (only 3 gigs of RAM with a painful SD 808 chip)
• Key series (except Key2)

BlackBerry has ALWAYS produced mid-tier hardware going back almost 20 years since BlackBerry has ALWAYS produced focused
software for the Enterprise sector primarily.

The closest BlackBerry ever came to flagship specs EVER, were the Passport and the PRIV and each were affected obstacles from the outside. Proprietary OS meant lack of support for Passport ecosystem and PRIV SOC issues weren't limited to BlackBerry OEM at time.

The DTEK line were rebadged Alcatels that saved BlackBerry and TCL money in design and component production costs. Since BlackBerry gave TCL KEYone designs as part of licensing deal some additional savings went there.

BlackBerry Mobile (TCL) employed batch production from the very beginning since the PKB design was always going to be low volume demand. The VKB design had same problems of low demand since no real carrier support.

From the beginning with the KEYone, sales were a disappointment since Verizon cancelled the KEYone from carrier support. The infrastructure and costs for all three licensees with BlackBerry Limited was intended to be spread over about 5 million units sales. Pricing was supposed to add USD$50-$150/unit at consumer level for VKB and PKB under the volume expectations initially with sales of 2-5 million globally. Sales fell short of that and fixed costs were spread over fewer devices hence the higher end costs.

In the end, to justify using just the name and nothing else would still cost TCL $5-10 USD per device and for what, a toxic brand and antique PKB form in a VKB dominated landscape?

[joeldf]

Yeah, there were constant complaints about the specs on BlackBerry hardware going back to the BBOS days.

Especially once the spec wars among the android OEMs started heating up around 2009, continuing to today.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yeah, there were constant complaints about the specs on BlackBerry hardware going back to the BBOS days.

Especially once the spec wars among the android OEMs started heating up around 2009, continuing to today.

Yeah my first couple of smartphones.... didn't even know what processor or memory they had.

[Drg84]

Yup. Blackberry and Nokia/Symbian always seemed to have comparable hardware specs that seemed underpowered compared to their contemporaries. However both OS'S had the advantage of being written for said underpowered hardware. BB10 seemed to have the opposite problem. the Unix kernel that BB10 used was large and slowed down boot times. But android seemed to get away with it on their Linux kernel. Early androids also took forever to boot up, people seem to forget that.

Oh and the Key2 isnt going to get Android P unless someone cracks BB security and creates their own custom ROM.

[Sigewif]

I honestly think the worst thing that could happen is for them to dump Pie on us, and then disappear. A new release usually needs 6 months of follow up patches to sort most of the issues out.

Conite cringes at the very thought, imagining all the posts on CB from people struggling with the bugs and feeling a compelling obligation to give them some helpful advice. 😬

[Sigewif]

For me it mattered for the 4 to 5 weeks my KEYone was gone to be repaired. I lost some stuff on it because the ribbon broke when the screen fell off. Fortunately I had my Priv as a back up at the time. It seems almost like forever ago now but it only happened 14 months ago. I guess it motivated me to get a KEY2 which I got late June of last year.

[gillespascoucou]

BlackBerry has ALWAYS produced mid-tier hardware going back almost 20 years since BlackBerry has ALWAYS produced focused
software for the Enterprise sector primarily.

The closest BlackBerry ever came to flagship specs EVER, were the Passport and the PRIV and each were affected obstacles from the outside. Proprietary OS meant lack of support for Passport ecosystem and PRIV SOC issues weren't limited to BlackBerry OEM at time.

The DTEK line were rebadged Alcatels that saved BlackBerry and TCL money in design and component production costs. Since BlackBerry gave TCL KEYone designs as part of licensing deal some additional savings went there.

BlackBerry Mobile (TCL) employed batch production from the very beginning since the PKB design was always going to be low volume demand. The VKB design had same problems of low demand since no real carrier support.

From the beginning with the KEYone, sales were a disappointment since Verizon cancelled the KEYone from carrier support. The infrastructure and costs for all three licensees with BlackBerry Limited was intended to be spread over about 5 million units sales. Pricing was supposed to add USD$50-$150/unit at consumer level for VKB and PKB under the volume expectations initially with sales of 2-5 million globally. Sales fell short of that and fixed costs were spread over fewer devices hence the higher end costs.

In the end, to justify using just the name and nothing else would still cost TCL $5-10 USD per device and for what, a toxic brand and antique PKB form in a VKB dominated landscape?

I agree. But let's start this from another POV. BlackBerry is no longer a big dog in the Phone industry. It became a contender. So why still thinking as a big dog ? Look at OnePlus over the years.

Dtek60 was a cheap Phone but with good specs. Nobody heard of it (almost no marketing around) and no software support.

What could make those types of deal viable for a company ? When I see what Nokia is doing now and what BlackBerry can't .... 😔

[Chuck Finley69]

I agree. But let's start this from another POV. BlackBerry is no longer a big dog in the Phone industry. It became a contender. So why still thinking as a big dog ? Look at OnePlus over the years.

Dtek60 was a cheap Phone but with good specs. Nobody heard of it (almost no marketing around) and no software support.

What could make those types of deal viable for a company ? When I see what Nokia is doing now and what BlackBerry can't .... ������

The difference is that BlackBerry failed at the VKB in 2008 with its Storm attempts. It then doubled and tripled down on the PKB until the brand was forever labeled as such.

[Chuck Finley69]

I agree. But let's start this from another POV. BlackBerry is no longer a big dog in the Phone industry. It became a contender. So why still thinking as a big dog ? Look at OnePlus over the years.

Dtek60 was a cheap Phone but with good specs. Nobody heard of it (almost no marketing around) and no software support.

What could make those types of deal viable for a company ? When I see what Nokia is doing now and what BlackBerry can't .... 😔

The difference is that BlackBerry failed at the VKB in 2008 with its Storm attempts. It then doubled and tripled down on the PKB until the brand was forever labeled as such.

[RLeeSimon]

They should...

I think you're wrong, but even if, BlackBerry won't give it to TCL for free.

[RLeeSimon]

Over a decade of failure... now they want us to let their software drives us down the roadways... not me

The difference is that BlackBerry failed at the VKB in 2008 with its Storm attempts. It then doubled and tripled down on the PKB until the brand was forever labeled as such.

[conite]

They should...

So BlackBerry should commit to offering Pie, and further commit to supporting it for another 6 months? All on their own dime (at the cost of 10s of millions)?

Not to mention that BlackBerry has no mechanism to even provide the update to a BBMo device. Not to mention that BlackBerry doesn't even have a customer-facing device support infrastructure.

Why on Earth would they do that?

[RLeeSimon]

To do penance and resume being seen as honorable, the opposite now...

So BlackBerry should commit to offering Pie, and further commit to supporting it for another 6 months? All on their own dime (at the cost of 10s of millions)?

Why on Earth would they do that?

[conite]

To do penance and resume being seen as honorable, the opposite now...

But in what way was BlackBerry Limited dishonourable to you, a TCL customer?

[RLeeSimon]

Top of the phone doesn't read TCL

Honor in business & more is a perception and a track record...

But in what way was BlackBerry Limited dishonourable to you, a TCL customer?

[conite]

Top of the phone doesn't read TCL

Honor business is a perception and a track record...

TCL paid for that name in mobile - it's theirs.

BlackBerry doesn't have a phone division anymore - no one to answer calls, no one to fix devices. Nothing.

[RLeeSimon]

& customers went to the store and bought what they saw, the latest BlackBerry

TCL paid for that name in mobile - it's theirs.

[conite]

& customers went to the store and bought what they saw, the latest BlackBerry

So?

They also bought Nokia and Alcatel phones; Sharp, Westinghouse, Phillips, RCA, and JVC TVs; and tons of other stuff that has nothing to do with the companies who own the brand names.

[RLeeSimon]

Bought a Passport the day they it came out. A short time after, BlackBerry offered a $100 off coupon. I called BlackBerry and they sent me a check for that. Honor of old...

Nobody niggled the thing was really made by a subcontractor in Mexico.

I bought a Key² and such flagships receive an OS upgrade but it didn't, dishonor...

Nothing good or honorable in the latter... all in the name of BlackBerry as most who own one have no idea who actually makes it.

[conite]

Bought a Passport the day they it came out. A short time after, BlackBerry offered a $100 off coupon. I called BlackBerry and they sent me a check for that. Honor of old...

Nobody niggled the thing was really made by a subcontractor in Mexico.

I bought a Key² and such flagships receive an OS upgrade but it didn't, dishonor...

Nothing good or honorable in the latter... all in the name of BlackBerry as most who own one have no idea who actually makes it.

The Passport was a BlackBerry phone. The fact that Wistron was hired by BlackBerry to manufacture it was irrelevant.

TCL, or HMD Global for that matter, are companies that pay a fee for the use of a brand name, which they then slap on their OWN phones - which they are solely responsible for.

That's how licencing works. Hundreds (well, thousands) of brands are licenced around the world. It's just how it works in many cases. The owners of the brand name don't take any responsibility for what its licencees do, nor do they receive enough money from them to "step-in" if something goes awry.

BlackBerry felt it was better to licence the mobile brand name than to immediately dissolve it.

Try going after Nokia for anything related to HMD Global phones made under the "Nokia" brand and see how far you get.